[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Saphyron]

P2W is when you can buy something with cash that is better than anything that can be earned in game. If they had a freighter with more cargo capacitor than anything in game or a fighter with better guns and shield than you can earn in game then it is definitely pay-to-win. Personally I'm not bothered by it, I don't see this sort of game as being any sort of direct competition and I don't care if people get bigger or better ships by playing more or paying more.

B2W do you see people spending cash on bigger monitors, faster computers or advanced controllers as pay-to-win because they are paying real life money for an advantage in the game?

You might need to refresh your understanding of the word Pay-to-Win.

At any point where you can pay for an advantage whether it be Pay-to-Skip or pay to get an OP ship or whatever. As soon as it has any gameplay effect on other players it is Pay-to-Win whether you like it or not. The only thing that is not Pay-to-Win is cosmetics. Since they only apply a skin to an already existing ship. It is even Pay-to-Win if the ship you buy is worse than the starter ship, though for the love of me I would not think of anyone except collectors that would buy that.

[Piglord]

You might need to refresh your understanding of the word Pay-to-Win.

At any point where you can pay for an advantage whether it be Pay-to-Skip or pay to get an OP ship or whatever. As soon as it has any gameplay effect on other players it is Pay-to-Win whether you like it or not. The only thing that is not Pay-to-Win is cosmetics. Since they only apply a skin to an already existing ship. It is even Pay-to-Win if the ship you buy is worse than the starter ship, though for the love of me I would not think of anyone except collectors that would buy that.

According to your definition every mmo I've ever played is pay-to-win.

[Dhrizzle]

You might need to refresh your understanding of the word Pay-to-Win.

At any point where you can pay for an advantage whether it be Pay-to-Skip or pay to get an OP ship or whatever. As soon as it has any gameplay effect on other players it is Pay-to-Win whether you like it or not. The only thing that is not Pay-to-Win is cosmetics. Since they only apply a skin to an already existing ship. It is even Pay-to-Win if the ship you buy is worse than the starter ship, though for the love of me I would not think of anyone except collectors that would buy that.

Pay-to-win means you get an in-game advantage that can't be gained without spending cash. Lots of games have had p2w mechanics like that - World of Tanks used to sell special ammo that penetrated armour. Mechwarrior Online has Hero mechs that occasinally make it to the top of the meta.

Some games have a "soft" p2w mechanic, items can be gained through normal play but the grind is so ridiculously over the top that money is the only realistic way to get them. IIRC RIFT had item slot unlocks that worked that way. Arguably MOBAs have that kind of soft p2w mechanic, but as selling heroes is their main source of funding it seems to be allowed to slide.

If someone buys a ship with their cash then later someone else saves up and gets the same ship in the game then it isn't p2w, and really if you think that Star Citizen is going to be a game that you "win" once you get the bigger ships then it probably isn't going to be the kind of experience you're looking for regardless of how other people play.

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No.

That's the generally accepted version of it.

The crux is how you define a "significant advantage." To me it is either when an advantage can not be gained through normal play or has a prohibitive grind so paying is the only practical way of getting it (of course there is then an argument about what level of grind can be considered "practical" which is why I referred to it as a "soft" p2w mechanic.)

[Kyanion]

You keep crying instead of doing your homework. You cry because it's the easy way out to turn your fantasies into reality. The sooner you accept your ignorance and try to learn the better. Humble yourself and grow as a gamer who likes to discuss games in development. Maybe then you'll be able to contribute instead of poluting threads.

I'm just going to give up trying to talk to you. You just devolve into insults and it is pretty tiring. Good luck playing that game when it launches in 4? years?

[Saphyron]

Pay-to-win means you get an in-game advantage that can't be gained without spending cash. Lots of games have had p2w mechanics like that - World of Tanks used to sell special ammo that penetrated armour. Mechwarrior Online has Hero mechs that occasinally make it to the top of the meta.

Some games have a "soft" p2w mechanic, items can be gained through normal play but the grind is so ridiculously over the top that money is the only realistic way to get them. IIRC RIFT had item slot unlocks that worked that way. Arguably MOBAs have that kind of soft p2w mechanic, but as selling heroes is their main source of funding it seems to be allowed to slide.

If someone buys a ship with their cash then later someone else saves up and gets the same ship in the game then it isn't p2w, and really if you think that Star Citizen is going to be a game that you "win" once you get the bigger ships then it probably isn't going to be the kind of experience you're looking for regardless of how other people play.

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The crux is how you define a "significant advantage." To me it is either when an advantage can not be gained through normal play or has a prohibitive grind so paying is the only practical way of getting it (of course there is then an argument about what level of grind can be considered "practical" which is why I referred to it as a "soft" p2w mechanic.)

You can try to argue how significant it actually is, but it’s still significant.

It’s not just space ships either, you can purchase in-game currency as well, thus anything that may be purchased trough credits, can be purchased through real-life cash.

Considering the game features Player-versus-Player content, and that a part of it is “open-world”, that’s pretty damn significant for many…

I fully agree here with Myobi.

You can call it soft P2W or hardcore P2W all you want its still P2W.
P2Skip can be in both spectrums. Straight from hey I'm literally saving years of time vs I'm getting a small percentage more credits per mission.

The whole problem behind all of this is, its generated out of nothing. If it was closer to eve online i.e. everything is player driven and it had to be built by a player I would not have minded it too much. Because it means everyone starts at the same location. But this literally gives a headstart to those who spend more money. How big of a headstart well.

Based on the few missions I've done so far and the prices on the star citizen homepage for ships with ingame currency. That is a massive headstart. Heck, me starting the game I can't even do trading. Because the first ship has no cargo bay. You will have to grind 4500 credits from doing missions to get the smallest hauler in the game (as of now) the Aurora CL. Unless you buy that ship for 51 euro. (proof). Don't get me started if an organisation bought the Hull E which has 16384 times more space than the Aurora CL(Aurora CL has 6 cargospace, Hull E has 98304 cargospace. (which can't be bought anymore though)

[masterhorus8]

Heck, me starting the game I can't even do trading. Because the first ship has no cargo bay.

That's you're fault for selecting a ship that doesn't have cargo. The Mustang Alpha has 6 units of cargo space atm, the same as the Aurora CL does right now.

And the Hull E is a 4 crew minimum ship, so you need to either have even more money to higher NPCs, or have other players with you.

[Onvious]

this is not his/her fault. all basic ships should have cargo bay even it is limited.

[masterhorus8]

this is not his/her fault. all basic ships should have cargo bay even it is limited.

Why should they? There are different types of ships. Different types of ships have different strengths and weaknesses. No cargo is not unusual for fighters, which is the ship they bought, but better firepower.

[Eleccybubb]

this is not his/her fault. all basic ships should have cargo bay even it is limited.

Eh that's the MO of this sub forum.

It's usually the fault of the person even when it isn't.

I mean the description of the ship even says "perhaps you're looking for something with carrying capacity as well as firepower".

Should have less than the other one. Simple as that. But it's easier to blame the consumer than blame the devs with this game so people do that.

[masterhorus8]

Eh that's the MO of this sub forum.

It's usually the fault of the person even when it isn't.

I mean the description of the ship even says "perhaps you're looking for something with carrying capacity as well as firepower".

Should have less than the other one. Simple as that. But it's easier to blame the consumer than blame the devs with this game so people do that.

And that's your MO, complain about anyone that shows any interest in something you don't like.

It is literally their fault for not looking at what they were buying. There is no way around it. Complain all you want, but I linked the ship stats from the official site. Easy to get to. Easy to look at at.

[PosPosPos]

According to your definition every mmo I've ever played is pay-to-win.

You are terrible at picking games and MMOs, then, and are part of the problem.

[MrAnderson]

I'm just going to give up trying to talk to you. You just devolve into insults and it is pretty tiring. Good luck playing that game when it launches in 4? years?

I've been playing it for years now. In case you havent notices there's been a playable version for some time now.

[Piglord]

You are terrible at picking games and MMOs, then, and are part of the problem.

Name one that you think isn't. According to that posters definition, I bet I can give examples on how it is.

[Kyanion]

It is literally their fault for not looking at what they were buying. There is no way around it. Complain all you want, but I linked the ship stats from the official site. Easy to get to. Easy to look at at.

We just going to ignore the "perhaps you're looking for something with carrying capacity as well as firepower" in the description? Know what it looks like? A fuckup by not having a small amount of carrying capacity. I'd say the fault is also on the devs, but sure blame the player only, that has always worked out well for people supporting a game.

[DarkAmbient]

I've been playing it for years now. In case you havent notices there's been a playable version for some time now.

Not a "gotcha" question, I genuinely want to know: What can you do in the game now, in terms of fully implemented, fully fleshed out content?

[Kyanion]

Name one that you think isn't. According to that posters definition, I bet I can give examples on how it is.

I don't know why this is the hill you want to die on, but sure. There are many definitions of p2w and some generally accepted ones. It really isn't worth fighting over.

[PosPosPos]

Name one that you think isn't. According to that posters definition, I bet I can give examples on how it is.

You can stop right there if you are referring to RMT transactions which are classified illegal according to most MMO's ToS.

[Piglord]

I don't know why this is the hill you want to die on, but sure. There are many definitions of p2w and some generally accepted ones. It really isn't worth fighting over.

I don't care what the other definitions are. Just the one from the poster I originally quoted. That person had such a broad definition that just about every modern mmo falls under it.

[PosPosPos]

I don't care what the other definitions are. Just the one from the poster I originally quoted. That person had such a broad definition that just about every modern mmo falls under it.

So most modern mmos have some form of p2w, that's somehow justifying the presence of p2w at all?

P2W apologists like you are one of the biggest reasons why the P2W cancer exists at all.

[MrAnderson]

Not a "gotcha" question, I genuinely want to know: What can you do in the game now, in terms of fully implemented, fully fleshed out content?

Dogfighting, Multicrew and FPS gameplay


Mining


Cargo Hauling


Delivery Missions


Bounty Hunting


Investigation


& Racing

In short those are the main things now, for a more in depth info I recommend Morphologis videos:


With that shown I don't recommend buying in if you expect a "finished and polished" experience. The game is in heavy development, bugs and glitches along with constant updates and new features are added every 3 months. The wait and see is the best approach if one isin't interest in paying to test while supporting development. Game probably wont get much more expensive than what already is (45$) unless you went for the Christmas deal packages that I think already sold out.