[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

No, you cannot use the ship number as some sort of representation for the number of accounts. We all know there are lots of backers that have more than a single ship. There's a decent number that have spent $5000 or even $10,000 on virtual spaceships. There are people that have spent $50,000+ on spaceships. They skew the numbers dramatically.



Don't just say it. Prove it.

Here's what Chris said in December 2018



The exclusion of investors for their sources of income makes it apparent that the tracker only reflects sales via CIG's website and the Kickstarter campaign.



CIG explicitly claimed that they could do this on just crowdfunded money, that's why they pushed for $23 million early on as it would mean they could drop the angel investors.



You are making up numbers to support your stance instead of using the evidence provided to you. The question is, why?

It clearly shows the difference in how many players have spent money on the game and how many accounts are there without spending money.

There is 9 seperate pages of information in the financial records. It doesnt matter how many ships you have as each package will still be on one account and each account can buy whatever they want.

im not making up numbers at all its in the financials, citizens without ships means accounts that have not spent money on the game since even the basic package means you have a ship, you cant just pick and choose what data is relevant, it clearly shows how many citizens are in the EEU fleet and how many are not on a daily basis. The proof is right there in front of you.

[Proskill]

can u somehow make that u run all the time by default without pressing space? and i dont mean toggle it on or off

[Val the Moofia Boss]

can u somehow make that u run all the time by default without pressing space? and i dont mean toggle it on or off

Scroll your mouse wheel up to raise your default movement speed.

[Majestic12]

as it stands now on the finacials last updated at the end of march there was 572163 citizens without ships, currently that would leave around 1,697,972 with ships much higher than 50%, it shows it in the financials under the full campaign if you want to take a look. J 864 is the area you can look at for information about citizens without ships and members of the UEE fleet.

all financial income would be included in the financials regardless of it being backer or elsewhere why would it not, a company cant survive on just the crowdfunded money.

There is a ton of information on the spreadsheet, but still the average is 132 spent per citizen including all income and people just buying the base game.

An important detail here is that citizen != unique players. There are players in my corp with 5-6 accounts each on the higher side, 2-3 on the lower.

Technically it's one player paying for 5-6 citizens.

[kenn9530]

An important detail here is that citizen != unique players. There are players in my corp with 5-6 accounts each on the higher side, 2-3 on the lower.

Technically it's one player paying for 5-6 citizens.

doesnt really matter though as the players with multiple accounts with paid ships is a minority just like the players with some of the most expensive ships, star citizen wont be an easy game to play more than 1 ship at a time, the average person has probably bought a freelancer/constelation at best since they are very popular ships and not too expensive.

[1001]

That statement only gives 2 numbers. There is a lot of information left out.

No there is not a lot of information left out. You are getting all the information you need to make an educated guess as to how many backers there are. From there you can take the amount raised and divide it by the approximate numbers of backers. What else do you need to know?

NO WHERE in your link does it say what you are claiming.

Ah so this is one of those idiotic stances where unless it specifies exactly what you want to see it is wholly dismissable...

Stop being so dim-witted. If they say that around half of signups are paying backers then that is all you need to know. You are literally behaving like a pre-teen sticking their fingers in their ears and sing-songing "na na nana na, I can't hear you!"

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doesnt really matter though as the players with multiple accounts with paid ships is a minority just like the players with some of the most expensive ships, star citizen wont be an easy game to play more than 1 ship at a time, the average person has probably bought a freelancer/constelation at best since they are very popular ships and not too expensive.

None of this changes the fact that Turbulent stated half of the Star Citizen number are paying accounts. Which translates to today's figure of 2.27M Star Citizens being around 1.135M paid accounts.

---

I honestly don't know why you both feel so threatend by this, does it affect your view of the project somehow? Do you feel like suckers for believing a company's marketing? Does it make you feel emasculated because they have less paying customers than you thought?
A company raising over $200 million and getting over 1 million paying customers before releasing a final product is no small feat.

[kenn9530]

None of this changes the fact that Turbulent stated half of the Star Citizen number are paying accounts. Which translates to today's figure of 2.27M Star Citizens being around 1.135M paid accounts.

---

I honestly don't know why you both feel so threatend by this, does it affect your view of the project somehow? Do you feel like suckers for believing a company's marketing? Does it make you feel emasculated because they have less paying customers than you thought?
A company raising over $200 million and getting over 1 million paying customers before releasing a final product is no small feat.

Im not threatened by anything im looking at the facts provided by the data provided, there are currently as of the start of March 1,680,544 EEU fleet which means accounts with at least 1 ship active, there are 572,163 citizens that have no ship active on the account so nothing spent on it, both these numbers account for the complete citizen number.

I think going by the actual numbers giving in the financials is more accurate that any statement you have read by turbulent, especially when i have seen no statement as such.

Every package comes with at least 1 ship so we know for a fact if money has been spent or not if you dont have at least 1 ship on your account.

Have you actually looked at the data of which im referring too. It clearly shows the daily information on accounts gained along with fleet conversions from free to paid citizen accounts.

[Orange Joe]

No there is not a lot of information left out.

How much of that money is from backers, and how much was from other sources. Unless you have that info you're just guessing.

[Odeezee]

Sunset on Hurston:



In the back of an Ursa Rover:

[1001]

How much of that money is from backers, and how much was from other sources. Unless you have that info you're just guessing.

I answered this in a previous post. The tracker only shows funding from backers, they do not include investments, loans etc within that tally. It would be extremely misleading if they did, I cannot believe people are even proposing this is a thing.

Look at how simple this is to verify yourself.
Open their financials and note how much they had raised in total by the end of 2017, then look at how much of it was from "pledges", finally look at the tracker spreadsheet and see what that was displaying at the end of 2017. That is your verification right there. You will see a rather large discrepancy between total income and pledge income.

So what do we see?
$207M raised in total by end of 2017
$175M from pledges
$175M showing on the tracker December 28th 2017.

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Im not threatened by anything im looking at the facts provided by the data provided, there are currently as of the start of March 1,680,544 EEU fleet which means accounts with at least 1 ship active, there are 572,163 citizens that have no ship active on the account so nothing spent on it, both these numbers account for the complete citizen number.

I think going by the actual numbers giving in the financials is more accurate that any statement you have read by turbulent, especially when i have seen no statement as such.

Every package comes with at least 1 ship so we know for a fact if money has been spent or not if you dont have at least 1 ship on your account.

Have you actually looked at the data of which im referring too. It clearly shows the daily information on accounts gained along with fleet conversions from free to paid citizen accounts.

The data you are using cannot even be publicly verified anymore, the UEE Fleet number has not been displayed on CIG's website for a couple of years at least.

Tracking total purchases vs unique purchases is information that Turbulent would have access to and the public would not. It is also information that CIG would absolutely not want the public to have which is why it is all the more believable.
The UEE Fleet number, along with the Star Citizens number, are nothing more than marketing information that CIG want people to see, it advertises a much healthier image than showing the number of unique accounts.

If we were to entertain that Turbulent were wrong, why did CIG not correct that information? This is something they have done with many interviews in which they feel something has been misinterpreted.

There is no reason to believe that Turbulent are wrong,
A. It is information a company would not normally want people to see.
B. It is first hand information unlike the tracker spreadsheet.
C. It would be in their interest to claim that more people turn into paying customers, not less.

[kenn9530]

I answered this in a previous post. The tracker only shows funding from backers, they do not include investments, loans etc within that tally. It would be extremely misleading if they did, I cannot believe people are even proposing this is a thing.

Look at how simple this is to verify yourself.
Open their financials and note how much they had raised in total by the end of 2017, then look at how much of it was from "pledges", finally look at the tracker spreadsheet and see what that was displaying at the end of 2017. That is your verification right there. You will see a rather large discrepancy between total income and pledge income.

So what do we see?
$207M raised in total by end of 2017
$175M from pledges
$175M showing on the tracker December 28th 2017.

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The data you are using cannot even be publicly verified anymore, the UEE Fleet number has not been displayed on CIG's website for a couple of years at least.

Tracking total purchases vs unique purchases is information that Turbulent would have access to and the public would not. It is also information that CIG would absolutely not want the public to have which is why it is all the more believable.
The UEE Fleet number, along with the Star Citizens number, are nothing more than marketing information that CIG want people to see, it advertises a much healthier image than showing the number of unique accounts.

If we were to entertain that Turbulent were wrong, why did CIG not correct that information? This is something they have done with many interviews in which they feel something has been misinterpreted.

There is no reason to believe that Turbulent are wrong,
A. It is information a company would not normally want people to see.
B. It is first hand information unlike the tracker spreadsheet.
C. It would be in their interest to claim that more people turn into paying customers, not less.

what your basically saying is the finacials are incorrect which would mean a breach of trust with all the backers not providing the correct information, there was a time where it was around a 50/50 split but that was back in 2016, i have also yet to see this evidence from turbulent that you claim to be accurate, plus all turbulent do is website related stuff.

The current number of citizens from the lat update on the finacials and website are within 20000 so the numbers are fairly accurate, if CiG cared about how many paid accounts compared to free accounts were there all they needed to do was not add in the 2 columns seperating the two, what you say makes no sense and has not facts to back it up.

[Orange Joe]

Then you are looking for the wrong information or refusing to follow some very simple logic.

The information from Turbulent tells us that half of the "Star Citizens" are paying customers so we can take the current amount raised and divide it by half of the number of Star Citizens, thus $220 million / 1.1 million = $200 average.

For the record, at the time that letter was published they were sitting at $150 million raised, which can be verified from this spreadsheet, and would put the average at $300 per backer. However the information from Turbulent could easily have been gathered 2-4 months prior to being published which would reduce the amount per backer to $250 or so.

I answered this in a previous post. The tracker only shows funding from backers, they do not include investments, loans etc within that tally. It would be extremely misleading if they did, I cannot believe people are even proposing this is a thing.

Look at how simple this is to verify yourself.
Open their financials and note how much they had raised in total by the end of 2017, then look at how much of it was from "pledges", finally look at the tracker spreadsheet and see what that was displaying at the end of 2017. That is your verification right there. You will see a rather large discrepancy between total income and pledge income.

So what do we see?
$207M raised in total by end of 2017
$175M from pledges
$175M showing on the tracker December 28th 2017.

Your all over the place trying to prove this right.

Not to mention how you are rounding up by 10's of millions.

Look you just aren't going to convince me. You can believe what you want.

[Proskill]

i bought the basic game with the choice of mustang and aurora, after reading some stuff i went with choosing mustang. however i got them both available at the space station kiosk. was aurora given away for free to all or whats going on here?

also doesnt star marine mode have a matchmaking system? didnt seem like i could play it without friends, and i would really like to jump right into some shooting in SC

reasking this question

[Cyclone Jack]

The Aurora could be a leftover Loaner ship for when they were working/reworking the Mustang.

[Odeezee]

reasking this question

i believe it was a work around so that people could do certain cargo box missions (where you have to physically pick up the box and not normal trading cargo missions) as the Mustang does not allow you to carry a box into it. you don't have both ships to keep, the Aurora is just a qol ship for now instead.

ArcCorp Area 18 night's sky. the Origin on the right looks sexy af!!!!!:



adventuring with a Cyclone on the Hurston moon Aberdeen. does this not look like a fucking photograph? the poster says that it was not touched up at all:

[1001]

what your basically saying is the finacials are incorrect which would mean a breach of trust with all the backers not providing the correct information, there was a time where it was around a 50/50 split but that was back in 2016, i have also yet to see this evidence from turbulent that you claim to be accurate, plus all turbulent do is website related stuff.

The current number of citizens from the lat update on the finacials and website are within 20000 so the numbers are fairly accurate, if CiG cared about how many paid accounts compared to free accounts were there all they needed to do was not add in the 2 columns seperating the two, what you say makes no sense and has not facts to back it up.

How's that?

The only thing that's important in this recent conversation was debunking yours and Orange Joe's claim that the tracker displays total income, which is what I have done. It seems that every time I provide a bit of information backing up what I claim you guys grab at any old branch out of sheer desperation.

Fucking get over it already. It's boring as hell.

For the record, UEE Fleet only displays the number of ships sold, it has no bearing on the actual number of accounts. Ben Lesnick stated this on the forums if you want to verify.

Your all over the place trying to prove this right.

Not to mention how you are rounding up by 10's of millions.

Look you just aren't going to convince me. You can believe what you want.

The fact that you are quoting both of those posts as though one negates the other explains the difficulty you are having here.

The first post is talking about the funding as it stands today. That is April 2019.

The second post is looking at CIG's financials (which only go up to the end of 2017) and cross checking them against the spreadsheet to verify whether the website's tracker records pledge amounts or total income amounts. So of course there is a difference between data taken 16 months ago and today.

Look you just aren't going to convince me. I can believe what I want regardless of facts and evidence.

Fixed that for you.

Edit: You know what you remind me of, a fucking anti-vaxxer. Even when provided with proof you still disregard it because it doesn't fit with your world view.
Actually you're worse than an anti-vaxxer because when they are pressed they provide something to back it up, a misguided study or whatever.
The depth of your argument is nothing more than "Nuh uh, you're wrong, muh feels." You provide nothing to support what you believe, you provide nothing evidential to counter what I say. It is absolutely pathetic.

[kenn9530]

How's that?

The only thing that's important in this recent conversation was debunking yours and Orange Joe's claim that the tracker displays total income, which is what I have done. It seems that every time I provide a bit of information backing up what I claim you guys grab at any old branch out of sheer desperation.

Fucking get over it already. It's boring as hell.

For the record, UEE Fleet only displays the number of ships sold, it has no bearing on the actual number of accounts. Ben Lesnick stated this on the forums if you want to verify.

EEU fleet is individual accounts with at least 1 ship(before free play all citizens were classified as EEU fleet), the numbers match perfectly with the total amount of star citizens adding up accounts with no ships, each account can only fly 1 ship at a time.

There is no information anywhere in the financials about how many ships have been sold, they only track citizens with at least 1 ship on the account or citizens without a ship, you have provided no proof of anything you have said, the financials back up everything i have said.

You have not debunked anything, you stated there was a 50/50 split in free accounts to paid accounts, where the financials prove that its closer to a 75/25 ratio which proves you wrong. There is even a citizen to EEU fleet conversion showing accounts which have bought at least 1 ship on thier account.

[1001]

EEU fleet is individual accounts with at least 1 ship(before free play all citizens were classified as EEU fleet), the numbers match perfectly with the total amount of star citizens adding up accounts with no ships, each account can only fly 1 ship at a time.

That is completely contrary to what Ben Lesnick stated. He said that it was simply a tally of the number of ships sold. The quote is out there and you are welcome to look it up but I am done providing evidence for you or Orange Joe because you both do nothing in return to verify or corroborate your claims.

There is no information anywhere in the financials about how many ships have been sold, they only track citizens with at least 1 ship on the account or citizens without a ship, you have provided no proof of anything you have said, the financials back up everything i have said.

Again, no evidence. What you are stating is pure conjecture, completely circumstantial.
The UEE Fleet count could be nothing more than 1000 accounts with 1500 ships on each account (we know it's not but the point stands).

You have not debunked anything, you stated there was a 50/50 split in free accounts to paid accounts, where the financials prove that its closer to a 75/25 ratio which proves you wrong.

Oh piss off already.
I gave you Turbulent's letter confirming my claim that half of the displayed accounts are backers.
I also showed you verification that the tracker only records pledge income.

CIG's financials do not show any evidence that there is a 75/25 split.
You are taking an unofficial, unverifiable source and using it as a prop for your argument while trying to imply it's official.

There is even a citizen to EEU fleet conversion showing accounts which have bought at least 1 ship on thier account.

You claim that it represents that, however as I stated, Ben Lesnick employee/ex-employee of CIG said it does not represent what you believe.
So who are we going to believe, a person who was an employee at the company when he made the statement or some random guy on the internet?

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EEU fleet is individual accounts with at least 1 ship(before free play all citizens were classified as EEU fleet), the numbers match perfectly with the total amount of star citizens adding up accounts with no ships, each account can only fly 1 ship at a time.

/u/banditloaf being Ben Lesnick and /u/therealdiscolando being Jared Huckaby

https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...eased_by_over/

You were saying....

[kenn9530]

That is completely contrary to what Ben Lesnick stated. He said that it was simply a tally of the number of ships sold. The quote is out there and you are welcome to look it up but I am done providing evidence for you or Orange Joe because you both do nothing in return to verify or corroborate your claims.



Again, no evidence. What you are stating is pure conjecture, completely circumstantial.
The UEE Fleet count could be nothing more than 1000 accounts with 1500 ships on each account (we know it's not but the point stands).



Oh piss off already.
I gave you Turbulent's letter confirming my claim that half of the displayed accounts are backers.
I also showed you verification that the tracker only records pledge income.

CIG's financials do not show any evidence that there is a 75/25 split.
You are taking an unofficial, unverifiable source and using it as a prop for your argument while trying to imply it's official.



You claim that it represents that, however as I stated, Ben Lesnick employee/ex-employee of CIG said it does not represent what you believe.
So who are we going to believe, a person who was an employee at the company when he made the statement or some random guy on the internet?

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/u/banditloaf being Ben Lesnick and /u/therealdiscolando being Jared Huckaby

https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...eased_by_over/

There we go.

From the first calculation of EEU and Citizens without ships - 530,915 total citizens back in 2014, EEU fleet number is 439,533, citizens without ships is 91,382.

If EEU meant ships and not citizens then 530,915 - 439,533 wouldn't get 91,382 because citizens and ships would be 2 different things.

latest numbers are 2,252,707 total citizens, 1,680,544 EEU fleet, 572,163 citizens without ships.

All these numbers prove you wrong and a statement from over 2 years ago is irrelevant because they used 2 seperate number back then EEU fleet and citizens, the statement you regard from turbulent is over 2 years old also of which around 2-3 years ago it was around a 50/50 split, you have no current information proving me wrong otherwise.

The game latest patchs have came along way in the past few years so more and more players are buying at least the basic package.

If EEU fleet meant total ships adding EEU fleet and Citizens without ships shouldnt be equal to total citizen number. It should be way higher.

1,680,544 auroras would equal over 100 million, thats the min raised from each sale, just buying the base game.

[1001]

From the first calculation of EEU and Citizens without ships - 530,915 total citizens back in 2014, EEU fleet number is 439,533, citizens without ships is 91,382.

If EEU meant ships and not citizens then 530,915 - 439,533 wouldn't get 91,382 because citizens and ships would be 2 different things.

latest numbers are 2,252,707 total citizens, 1,680,544 EEU fleet, 572,163 citizens without ships.

All these numbers prove you wrong and a statement from over 2 years ago is irrelevant because they used 2 seperate number back then EEU fleet and citizens, the statement you regard from turbulent is over 2 years old also of which around 2-3 years ago it was around a 50/50 split, you have no current information proving me wrong otherwise.

The game latest patchs have came along way in the past few years so more and more players are buying at least the basic package.

If EEU fleet meant total ships adding EEU fleet and Citizens without ships shouldnt be equal to total citizen number. It should be way higher.

1,680,544 auroras would equal over 100 million, thats the min raised from each sale, just buying the base game.

Haha just look at you, even now with a screencap showing a CIG employee directly contradictiing what you are claiming you choose to completely ignore it and huff and puff instead. What a tool.

Let's recap.
In the face of Turbulent's letter, in the face of CIG's tracker and now in the face of confirmation from Disco Lando and Ben Lesnick it is not you that is wrong, but me... talk about being in denial.

Look I appreciate steadfastness as much as the next person but there is a point where too much of it makes you look like an idiot. You crossed that point many posts ago.

You are the one in the wrong here, not me. At least be mature enough to accept that you put money on the wrong fucking horse instead of trying to worm and squirm. It's getting more embarrassing by the minute.

And please stop calling it EEU, it is UEE