1. #8001
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    001100010010011110100001101101110011
    Posts
    18,006
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Then you are looking for the wrong information or refusing to follow some very simple logic.

    The information from Turbulent tells us that half of the "Star Citizens" are paying customers so we can take the current amount raised and divide it by half of the number of Star Citizens, thus $220 million / 1.1 million = $200 average.

    For the record, at the time that letter was published they were sitting at $150 million raised, which can be verified from this spreadsheet, and would put the average at $300 per backer. However the information from Turbulent could easily have been gathered 2-4 months prior to being published which would reduce the amount per backer to $250 or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    I answered this in a previous post. The tracker only shows funding from backers, they do not include investments, loans etc within that tally. It would be extremely misleading if they did, I cannot believe people are even proposing this is a thing.

    Look at how simple this is to verify yourself.
    Open their financials and note how much they had raised in total by the end of 2017, then look at how much of it was from "pledges", finally look at the tracker spreadsheet and see what that was displaying at the end of 2017. That is your verification right there. You will see a rather large discrepancy between total income and pledge income.

    So what do we see?
    $207M raised in total by end of 2017
    $175M from pledges
    $175M showing on the tracker December 28th 2017.

    Your all over the place trying to prove this right.

    Not to mention how you are rounding up by 10's of millions.

    Look you just aren't going to convince me. You can believe what you want.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.

  2. #8002
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Your all over the place trying to prove this right.

    Not to mention how you are rounding up by 10's of millions.

    Look you just aren't going to convince me. You can believe what you want.
    This has to be on the top anime comebacks.
    Pay-2-Win?

    ♩ ♪ Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality... ♫

  3. #8003
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    i bought the basic game with the choice of mustang and aurora, after reading some stuff i went with choosing mustang. however i got them both available at the space station kiosk. was aurora given away for free to all or whats going on here?

    also doesnt star marine mode have a matchmaking system? didnt seem like i could play it without friends, and i would really like to jump right into some shooting in SC
    reasking this question
    i5-6600 3.3GHz|16 GB RAM|GeForce GTX 1070
    EVE Online referral link: https://www.eveonline.com/signup/?in...a-e190e6a28fd5|receive 750,000 Skill Points
    Star Citizen referral code: STAR-2YL2-XDTX|get 5,000 UEC

  4. #8004
    The Aurora could be a leftover Loaner ship for when they were working/reworking the Mustang.

  5. #8005
    Bloodsail Admiral Odeezee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The-D
    Posts
    1,065
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    reasking this question
    i believe it was a work around so that people could do certain cargo box missions (where you have to physically pick up the box and not normal trading cargo missions) as the Mustang does not allow you to carry a box into it. you don't have both ships to keep, the Aurora is just a qol ship for now instead.

    ArcCorp Area 18 night's sky. the Origin on the right looks sexy af!!!!!:



    adventuring with a Cyclone on the Hurston moon Aberdeen. does this not look like a fucking photograph? the poster says that it was not touched up at all:

    Last edited by Odeezee; 2019-04-17 at 12:15 AM.
    "Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!"

    For a $5/5000 in-game credit bonus for backing
    Star Citizen (MMO) or Squadron 42 (Single Player/Co-op) use my Referral code: STAR-3QDY-SZBG

  6. #8006
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    what your basically saying is the finacials are incorrect which would mean a breach of trust with all the backers not providing the correct information, there was a time where it was around a 50/50 split but that was back in 2016, i have also yet to see this evidence from turbulent that you claim to be accurate, plus all turbulent do is website related stuff.

    The current number of citizens from the lat update on the finacials and website are within 20000 so the numbers are fairly accurate, if CiG cared about how many paid accounts compared to free accounts were there all they needed to do was not add in the 2 columns seperating the two, what you say makes no sense and has not facts to back it up.
    How's that?

    The only thing that's important in this recent conversation was debunking yours and Orange Joe's claim that the tracker displays total income, which is what I have done. It seems that every time I provide a bit of information backing up what I claim you guys grab at any old branch out of sheer desperation.

    Fucking get over it already. It's boring as hell.

    For the record, UEE Fleet only displays the number of ships sold, it has no bearing on the actual number of accounts. Ben Lesnick stated this on the forums if you want to verify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Your all over the place trying to prove this right.

    Not to mention how you are rounding up by 10's of millions.

    Look you just aren't going to convince me. You can believe what you want.
    The fact that you are quoting both of those posts as though one negates the other explains the difficulty you are having here.

    The first post is talking about the funding as it stands today. That is April 2019.

    The second post is looking at CIG's financials (which only go up to the end of 2017) and cross checking them against the spreadsheet to verify whether the website's tracker records pledge amounts or total income amounts. So of course there is a difference between data taken 16 months ago and today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Look you just aren't going to convince me. I can believe what I want regardless of facts and evidence.
    Fixed that for you.

    Edit: You know what you remind me of, a fucking anti-vaxxer. Even when provided with proof you still disregard it because it doesn't fit with your world view.
    Actually you're worse than an anti-vaxxer because when they are pressed they provide something to back it up, a misguided study or whatever.
    The depth of your argument is nothing more than "Nuh uh, you're wrong, muh feels." You provide nothing to support what you believe, you provide nothing evidential to counter what I say. It is absolutely pathetic.
    Last edited by 1001; 2019-04-17 at 06:39 AM.

  7. #8007
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    How's that?

    The only thing that's important in this recent conversation was debunking yours and Orange Joe's claim that the tracker displays total income, which is what I have done. It seems that every time I provide a bit of information backing up what I claim you guys grab at any old branch out of sheer desperation.

    Fucking get over it already. It's boring as hell.

    For the record, UEE Fleet only displays the number of ships sold, it has no bearing on the actual number of accounts. Ben Lesnick stated this on the forums if you want to verify.
    EEU fleet is individual accounts with at least 1 ship(before free play all citizens were classified as EEU fleet), the numbers match perfectly with the total amount of star citizens adding up accounts with no ships, each account can only fly 1 ship at a time.

    There is no information anywhere in the financials about how many ships have been sold, they only track citizens with at least 1 ship on the account or citizens without a ship, you have provided no proof of anything you have said, the financials back up everything i have said.

    You have not debunked anything, you stated there was a 50/50 split in free accounts to paid accounts, where the financials prove that its closer to a 75/25 ratio which proves you wrong. There is even a citizen to EEU fleet conversion showing accounts which have bought at least 1 ship on thier account.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-17 at 05:52 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  8. #8008
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    EEU fleet is individual accounts with at least 1 ship(before free play all citizens were classified as EEU fleet), the numbers match perfectly with the total amount of star citizens adding up accounts with no ships, each account can only fly 1 ship at a time.
    That is completely contrary to what Ben Lesnick stated. He said that it was simply a tally of the number of ships sold. The quote is out there and you are welcome to look it up but I am done providing evidence for you or Orange Joe because you both do nothing in return to verify or corroborate your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    There is no information anywhere in the financials about how many ships have been sold, they only track citizens with at least 1 ship on the account or citizens without a ship, you have provided no proof of anything you have said, the financials back up everything i have said.
    Again, no evidence. What you are stating is pure conjecture, completely circumstantial.
    The UEE Fleet count could be nothing more than 1000 accounts with 1500 ships on each account (we know it's not but the point stands).

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You have not debunked anything, you stated there was a 50/50 split in free accounts to paid accounts, where the financials prove that its closer to a 75/25 ratio which proves you wrong.
    Oh piss off already.
    I gave you Turbulent's letter confirming my claim that half of the displayed accounts are backers.
    I also showed you verification that the tracker only records pledge income.

    CIG's financials do not show any evidence that there is a 75/25 split.
    You are taking an unofficial, unverifiable source and using it as a prop for your argument while trying to imply it's official.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    There is even a citizen to EEU fleet conversion showing accounts which have bought at least 1 ship on thier account.
    You claim that it represents that, however as I stated, Ben Lesnick employee/ex-employee of CIG said it does not represent what you believe.
    So who are we going to believe, a person who was an employee at the company when he made the statement or some random guy on the internet?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    EEU fleet is individual accounts with at least 1 ship(before free play all citizens were classified as EEU fleet), the numbers match perfectly with the total amount of star citizens adding up accounts with no ships, each account can only fly 1 ship at a time.


    /u/banditloaf being Ben Lesnick and /u/therealdiscolando being Jared Huckaby

    https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...eased_by_over/

    You were saying....
    Last edited by 1001; 2019-04-17 at 10:36 AM.

  9. #8009
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    That is completely contrary to what Ben Lesnick stated. He said that it was simply a tally of the number of ships sold. The quote is out there and you are welcome to look it up but I am done providing evidence for you or Orange Joe because you both do nothing in return to verify or corroborate your claims.



    Again, no evidence. What you are stating is pure conjecture, completely circumstantial.
    The UEE Fleet count could be nothing more than 1000 accounts with 1500 ships on each account (we know it's not but the point stands).



    Oh piss off already.
    I gave you Turbulent's letter confirming my claim that half of the displayed accounts are backers.
    I also showed you verification that the tracker only records pledge income.

    CIG's financials do not show any evidence that there is a 75/25 split.
    You are taking an unofficial, unverifiable source and using it as a prop for your argument while trying to imply it's official.



    You claim that it represents that, however as I stated, Ben Lesnick employee/ex-employee of CIG said it does not represent what you believe.
    So who are we going to believe, a person who was an employee at the company when he made the statement or some random guy on the internet?

    - - - Updated - - -





    /u/banditloaf being Ben Lesnick and /u/therealdiscolando being Jared Huckaby

    https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...eased_by_over/

    There we go.
    From the first calculation of EEU and Citizens without ships - 530,915 total citizens back in 2014, EEU fleet number is 439,533, citizens without ships is 91,382.

    If EEU meant ships and not citizens then 530,915 - 439,533 wouldn't get 91,382 because citizens and ships would be 2 different things.

    latest numbers are 2,252,707 total citizens, 1,680,544 EEU fleet, 572,163 citizens without ships.

    All these numbers prove you wrong and a statement from over 2 years ago is irrelevant because they used 2 seperate number back then EEU fleet and citizens, the statement you regard from turbulent is over 2 years old also of which around 2-3 years ago it was around a 50/50 split, you have no current information proving me wrong otherwise.

    The game latest patchs have came along way in the past few years so more and more players are buying at least the basic package.

    If EEU fleet meant total ships adding EEU fleet and Citizens without ships shouldnt be equal to total citizen number. It should be way higher.

    1,680,544 auroras would equal over 100 million, thats the min raised from each sale, just buying the base game.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-17 at 10:45 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  10. #8010
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    From the first calculation of EEU and Citizens without ships - 530,915 total citizens back in 2014, EEU fleet number is 439,533, citizens without ships is 91,382.

    If EEU meant ships and not citizens then 530,915 - 439,533 wouldn't get 91,382 because citizens and ships would be 2 different things.

    latest numbers are 2,252,707 total citizens, 1,680,544 EEU fleet, 572,163 citizens without ships.

    All these numbers prove you wrong and a statement from over 2 years ago is irrelevant because they used 2 seperate number back then EEU fleet and citizens, the statement you regard from turbulent is over 2 years old also of which around 2-3 years ago it was around a 50/50 split, you have no current information proving me wrong otherwise.

    The game latest patchs have came along way in the past few years so more and more players are buying at least the basic package.

    If EEU fleet meant total ships adding EEU fleet and Citizens without ships shouldnt be equal to total citizen number. It should be way higher.

    1,680,544 auroras would equal over 100 million, thats the min raised from each sale, just buying the base game.
    Haha just look at you, even now with a screencap showing a CIG employee directly contradictiing what you are claiming you choose to completely ignore it and huff and puff instead. What a tool.

    Let's recap.
    In the face of Turbulent's letter, in the face of CIG's tracker and now in the face of confirmation from Disco Lando and Ben Lesnick it is not you that is wrong, but me... talk about being in denial.

    Look I appreciate steadfastness as much as the next person but there is a point where too much of it makes you look like an idiot. You crossed that point many posts ago.

    You are the one in the wrong here, not me. At least be mature enough to accept that you put money on the wrong fucking horse instead of trying to worm and squirm. It's getting more embarrassing by the minute.

    And please stop calling it EEU, it is UEE
    Last edited by 1001; 2019-04-17 at 11:04 AM.

  11. #8011
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Haha just look at you, even now with evidence to the contrary you are still huffing and puffing. What a tool

    Let's recap.
    In the face of Turbulent's letter, in the face of CIG's tracker and now in the face of confirmation from Disco Lando and Ben Lesnick it is not you that is wrong, but me... talk about being in denial.

    Look I appreciate steadfastness as much as the next person but there is a point where too much of it makes you look like an idiot. You crossed that point many posts ago.

    You are the one in the wrong here, not me. At least be mature enough to accept that you put money on the wrong fucking horse instead of trying to worm and squirm. It's getting more embarrassing by the minute.
    Turbulents letter 2-3 years old when it was actually relevant, discos comment 2-3 years old when it was relevant due to the fact EEU fleet numbers and citizens were seperate, now they are combined.

    Im sorry but your in the wrong because your using outdated information.

    Im just providing the numbers from CiG financials that anyone can see.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-17 at 11:05 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  12. #8012
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Turbulents letter 2-3 years old when it was actually relevant, discos comment 2-3 years old when it was relevant due to the fact EEU fleet numbers and citizens were seperate, now they are combined.

    Im sorry but your in the wrong because your using outdated information.
    The image that comes to mind is a person drowning, grabbing at any old piece of flotsam in their desire to stay afloat.

    Just bore off already.

  13. #8013
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    The image that comes to mind is a person drowning, grabbing at any old piece of flotsam in their desire to stay afloat.

    Just bore off already.
    It's a well known fact that the UEE fleet = total amount of ships. That definition never actually changed either, I'm not getting why Kenn is insisting otherwise.

  14. #8014
    Patch 3.5 is live!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  15. #8015
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    It's a well known fact that the UEE fleet = total amount of ships. That definition never actually changed either, I'm not getting why Kenn is insisting otherwise.
    as of march 2019 citizens without ships are around 572,163(individual accounts), and total number of citizens are 2,252,707(individual accounts), minus those 2 values and you get the number of individual EEU fleet numbers, the data in the financials proves this.

    Citizens are calculated as seperate unique accounts, and citizens without ships are also classified similar. Using those 2 values alone you get the actual number of citizens within the EEU fleet. 2-3 years ago EEU fleet numbers and citizens were two different numbers.

    If you can prove me wrong then go ahead by i have seen no proof that is currently relevant.

    Throughtout the financials it always counts citizens and not ships.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-18 at 04:37 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  16. #8016
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    It's a well known fact that the UEE fleet = total amount of ships. That definition never actually changed either, I'm not getting why Kenn is insisting otherwise.
    I remember there was some confusion in the early days of the project but that confusion was cleared up once Ben and Jared confirmed it was a tally for the number of ships sold.
    Kenn simply doesn't want to admit he's wrong, even in the face of CIG employees stating the opposite of what he claims.

  17. #8017
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    I remember there was some confusion in the early days of the project but that confusion was cleared up once Ben and Jared confirmed it was a tally for the number of ships sold.
    Kenn simply doesn't want to admit he's wrong, even in the face of CIG employees stating the opposite of what he claims.
    Where is this so called proof proving me wrong, all the data in the financials back up everything i have said but all you have is 2-3 year old comments of which are not relevant.

    Fact number 1 - 572,116 citizens without ships (as of march 2019)

    Fact number 2 - 2,252,707 total number of citizens

    I cant make it anymore simple for you, its simple subtraction and you get total number of citizens who have ships. Nowhere in the financials apart from original kickstarter does it record indivdual ship sales.

    You also stated the financials only go up to end of 2017 of which you are wrong, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=510405882, that is the crowdfunding financials for the complete project.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-18 at 09:54 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  18. #8018
    Why are you guys even arguing about the number of citizens who have ships?

  19. #8019
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Where is this so called proof proving me wrong, all the data in the financials back up everything i have said but all you have is 2-3 year old comments of which are not relevant.

    Fact number 1 - 572,116 citizens without ships (as of march 2019)

    Fact number 2 - 2,252,707 total number of citizens

    I cant make it anymore simple for you, its simple subtraction and you get total number of citizens who have ships. Nowhere in the financials apart from original kickstarter does it record indivdual ship sales.

    Kenn, this is the last time I respond to you because the proof has been linked repeatedly.
    You are stubbornly choosing to ignore it because you believe you know better than employees of CIG and that is totally nonsensical.

    Unless you have some verifiable proof to corroborate your claims (and using an unofficial, unverifiable spreadsheet is not sufficient) then it literally does not matter what your suppositions are. How do you not understand that?

    A letter from a company that manages CIG's website and/or database and confirmation of statements from CIG employees will trump your claims each and every time because the odds of those people knowing what they are talking about is significantly higher than some random guy on the internet.

    Ask yourself this (and I've already brought part of this up).
    Why would Turbulent understate the actual numbers, how would that be of any benefit to a company employed by CIG?
    Why would Ben Lesnick and Jared Huckaby both say that the UEE Fleet represents the number of ships sold when it would be more beneficial for them to claim it is the number of accounts, how would understating things benefit CIG?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You also stated the financials only go up to end of 2017 of which you are wrong, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=510405882
    Good lord. Financials that CIG have posted, not numbers collected by random people on the internet. How do you not understand the difference between an official statement and an unofficial statement.
    Would you let some guys with API access do your damn accounting books?

    Anyhow, as I say this is the last time I respond to you. There is only one more to say and that is Suck it up, Buttercup.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Why are you guys even arguing about the number of citizens who have ships?
    Oh man, don't start him off again This discussion would have been over days ago if he could just accept that employees know better than non-employees.

  20. #8020
    Quote Originally Posted by 1001 View Post
    Kenn, this is the last time I respond to you because the proof has been linked repeatedly.
    You are stubbornly choosing to ignore it because you believe you know better than employees of CIG and that is totally nonsensical.

    Unless you have some verifiable proof to corroborate your claims (and using an unofficial, unverifiable spreadsheet is not sufficient) then it literally does not matter what your suppositions are. How do you not understand that?

    A letter from a company that manages CIG's website and/or database and confirmation of statements from CIG employees will trump your claims each and every time because the odds of those people knowing what they are talking about is significantly higher than some random guy on the internet.

    Ask yourself this (and I've already brought part of this up).
    Why would Turbulent understate the actual numbers, how would that be of any benefit to a company employed by CIG?
    Why would Ben Lesnick and Jared Huckaby both say that the UEE Fleet represents the number of ships sold when it would be more beneficial for them to claim it is the number of accounts, how would understating things benefit CIG?



    Good lord. Financials that CIG have posted, not numbers collected by random people on the internet. How do you not understand the difference between an official statement and an unofficial statement.
    Would you let some guys with API access do your damn accounting books?

    Anyhow, as I say this is the last time I respond to you. There is only one more to say and that is Suck it up, Buttercup.
    Can you even provide me with a number of citizen accounts that are freeplay, if you cant even do that then everything you have said has been a waste of time.

    Using 2-3 year old information when it was only relevant at the time proves nothing.

    CIG is set to make at least 300million by the end of 2019 including all revenues, the information in that spreadsheet is more relevant than your 2-3 year old comments.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2019-04-18 at 01:54 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •