1. #12241
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Moving dates when required is pretty standard in the gaming industry so if something is not ready then its pretty obvious to make changes, if you backed the project you accepted all risks that comes along with it. Chris wants to make the best space game he possibly can and he has stated many times if he is not happy with something the players wont see it until its ready.

    You might want to research even a little before making BS comments about videos since many are not even made by CiG and most are from current gameplay, CiG make fairly decent videos as has been already been proven.
    If you do not understand what is the problem with "release in 2016" vs "2021...still not in beta" then it can`t be helped.....

  2. #12242
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran100 View Post
    If you do not understand what is the problem with "release in 2016" vs "2021...still not in beta" then it can`t be helped.....
    SQ42 was not stated for release in 2016 just a small part of it had a possability of being available, even if a clear date was stated the company can change thier mind if they feel the product what not what they wanted to release, any dates given during development can be changed as they see fit, i would rather them work on it as long as it takes instead of getting just another generic space game.

    In 2016 SQ42 would not of even had much to do with planets or nothing close to what we can do now, so if you use some logic at all that means much work would need to be done to include planet tech, its a completely different game from just having a space only experience to including planets also.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-05-06 at 03:54 PM.
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  3. #12243
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    In 2016 SQ42 would not of even had much to do with planets or nothing close to what we can do now, so if you use some logic at all that means much work would need to be done to include planet tech, its a completely different game from just having a space only experience to including planets also.
    So...feature creep pushed SQ42 back by upwards of 5 years, then. Delays happen, but 4+ year delays aren't like, common at all. I've worked on games that have had long delays (upwards of a year), but nothing like this.

    If you let your project spin out of control to the point where your initial target window is a half a decade in the rear view mirror, that's garbage management no matter what the project.

  4. #12244
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It seems you are not in touch with reality, there is no company or organisation that can say it has ideal management, the larger the company the more impossible for management to work exactly the way it should operate. Anything run by a human is subject to all the flaws that comes with it.
    Again, Ill pay 20 extra dollars for what ever you are putting in your body that makes you hallucinate this badly. Ill even pay for the shipping.

  5. #12245
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...ort-April-2021

    Work also continued on the hygiene behavior, with the team completing setups for the toilet and shower cubicles and their relative blockout animations. For sleep behaviors, new animations for beds were set up to support physicalized sheets, and the process of standardizing the proper usage of bed shutters began.
    Maybe I'm old fashioned but is working on AI behaviors to make sure they can use toilets and showers really a big feature in the game? Is it something demanding developer time right now given all the other priorities the game is facing?

    Physicalized sheets? Using bed shutters? Are they going to simulate the digestion of NPCs? The formation of fecal matter? How about splash physics? Waste reclamation? Will there be a detailed system to eject waste into space?

    Is any of this necessary right now?

  6. #12246
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So...feature creep pushed SQ42 back by upwards of 5 years, then. Delays happen, but 4+ year delays aren't like, common at all. I've worked on games that have had long delays (upwards of a year), but nothing like this.

    If you let your project spin out of control to the point where your initial target window is a half a decade in the rear view mirror, that's garbage management no matter what the project.
    The stretch goals kept going until just before 2015 so it was the community that wanted the game to keep growing larger so it wasnt really anything to do with management as it was the community that was pushing to expand the game. CR gave an option to expand the game or develop the first version and the community went with wanting everything that CR could give them.

    So its not really a suprise when it takes a great deal longer to develop the much larger version of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    snip
    Things to do with beds would be additional things for medical gameplay.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-05-06 at 04:26 PM.
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  7. #12247
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...ort-April-2021



    Maybe I'm old fashioned but is working on AI behaviors to make sure they can use toilets and showers really a big feature in the game? Is it something demanding developer time right now given all the other priorities the game is facing?

    Physicalized sheets? Using bed shutters? Are they going to simulate the digestion of NPCs? The formation of fecal matter? How about splash physics? Waste reclamation? Will there be a detailed system to eject waste into space?

    Is any of this necessary right now?
    Nah, don't mix things up: in every video game, there are independent teams that work on different things. The game wouldn't be finished, just because the team wouldn't work on it anymore.

    Does it change the fact that the only thing working in SC is the cash shop: nope.

  8. #12248
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The stretch goals kept going until just before 2015 so it was the community that wanted the game to keep growing larger
    This doesn't really "help" the argument for two reasons -

    1. All the stretch goals were created by CR, he had to know that most of these would greatly extend the timetable for development and should have known this well before the "2016" target dates they briefly included in videos and stated. Like, extremely obvious that with these stretch goals prior windows would be completely thrown out.

    2. Democratizing development like this isn't the best idea because the general public doesn't know what actually goes into these stretch goals. They don't understand the kinds of delays this will cause, the potential technical challenges etc. etc. It's an abject failure of management in pursuit of ever more and more funding rather than saying, "This is the game we want, this is what we can reasonably make, and this is what we're making. If you want to keep funding us, please do, but we will not compromise the integrity of the product."

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    CR gave an option to expand the game or develop the first version and the community went with wanting everything that CR could give them.
    Which is a failure on the part of CR as a manager, again. This is why crowdfunded games may work with their communities closely on development, but don't let their communities "dictate" the scope of a game. Because the community can't know the risks associated with it on any meaningful level.

    More evidence of this? All the failed KS projects promising the sun and moon and fully interactive MMO's that are more ambitious than any AAA for....a few hundred thousand. And they get backing.

    Why? Because players aren't developers. They're not engineers. They're not managers. It's up to management to manage expectations and risk. CR has done absolutely zero of either.

    That. Is. Bad. Management.

  9. #12249
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The stretch goals kept going until just before 2015 so it was the community that wanted the game to keep growing larger so it wasnt really anything to do with management as it was the community that was pushing to expand the game. CR gave an option to expand the game or develop the first version and the community went with wanting everything that CR could give them.

    So its not really a suprise when it takes a great deal longer to develop the much larger version of the game.
    So the community thinks that developing AI behaviors to make sure they can use toilets and showers, create new animations for beds and standardizing the proper usage of bed shutters is what's necessary right now.

    Looks like the game is looking in great shape if this kind of small touches are already being worked on.

    Great work Star Citizen community and impressive management skills from the admins for listening to this great feedback.

  10. #12250
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Nah, don't mix things up: in every video game, there are independent teams that work on different things. The game wouldn't be finished, just because the team wouldn't work on it anymore.

    Does it change the fact that the only thing working in SC is the cash shop: nope.
    Fully aware that there are dozens of different teams working on the game right now. I'm just curious where the, "Make sure NPC's can interact with bedsheets and use the toilet" fits on the priority list right now, because it seems a bit...high given the work needed to do on the entire rest of the game? Surely the team working on NPC AI has more pressing priorities than making sure an NPC can take a shit?

  11. #12251
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It seems you are not in touch with reality, there is no company or organisation that can say it has ideal management.
    Properly and ideally are not the same thing. You just said something absolutely idiotic, there absolutely are properly managed companies.
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  12. #12252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Properly and ideally are not the same thing. You just said something absolutely idiotic, there absolutely are properly managed companies.
    Microsoft being one. Which is kind of funny because MS had to push CRobberts out of his last project because he was such a fucking liar and moron.

  13. #12253
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    snip
    unless a project fails its not bad management, management is not just the person at the top its the whole chain of a company and every single company in existance has its management failures, if anyone claims otherwise they are just talking nonsense.

    The community wanted a bigger game, so thats whats CR is given us and a larger game means it takes longer to develop, so unless the project completely fails then claiming a company has bad management is just an opinion.

    The origional game was just going to be a pure space game and not much at all to do with planets, i much prefer waiting for the actual space game i have been waiting for instead of just another game that doesnt last all that long. Chris has already stated outright on many occasion he will not comprimise on his game so you just have to suck it up and wait until its ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Properly and ideally are not the same thing. You just said something absolutely idiotic, there absolutely are properly managed companies.
    There is no properly managed company, humans are the weak point and there is always a failure at some stage, most are minor failures but still you cant claim any company is properly managed.
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  14. #12254
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    unless a project fails its not bad management
    lolwut? It fucking absolutely can be bad management even if the project chugs along.

  15. #12255
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    unless a project fails its not bad management
    Patently, 100% incorrect. Like, I can't begin to describe how utterly incorrect this is. ME:A wasn't a "failure", it turned a profit, but it was a clusterfuck shitshow that killed a studio and hurt the reputation of both the BW/ME brands. And was purely due to awful, terrible, no-good management.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    management is not just the person at the top its the whole chain of a company and every single company in existance has its management failures, if anyone claims otherwise they are just talking nonsense.
    When you have a known and admitted micromanager that likes to be involved in everything like CR, yes, it is. It all flows upwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The community wanted a bigger game, so thats whats CR is given us and a larger game means it takes longer to develop, so unless the project completely fails then claiming a company has bad management is just an opinion.
    Just because players "want" something doesn't mean it's a good idea. And remember, CR voluntarily added all of these things as well, knowing the complexity that many would add onto the existing game, and knowing well before the "2016" windows for SQ42.

    Players want anything and everything, but most of what they want is often impractical. That's where it's on good managers to identify reasonable features and tech additions that they can achieve and clearly communicate to their playerbase that some of what they want isn't remotely reasonable without a decade+ of R&D just to see if the tech is viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Chris has already stated outright on many occasion he will not comprimise on his game so you just have to suck it up and wait until its ready.
    Failure to compromise is a literal failure of management. Sometimes you have to compromise in life, not because a publisher or investor is telling you to, but because you realize your goal/vision may not be achievable so you need to scale back. It's a key part of management and creating a product.

  16. #12256
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The origional game was just going to be a pure space game and not much at all to do with planets, i much prefer waiting for the actual space game i have been waiting for instead of just another game that doesnt last all that long. Chris has already stated outright on many occasion he will not comprimise on his game so you just have to suck it up and wait until its ready.
    The CR apologist says it is okay so its okay! I guess them putting years at the end of videos was just him testing if it was ready. It wasn't ready so back in the cauldron it goes.

  17. #12257
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...ort-April-2021



    Maybe I'm old fashioned but is working on AI behaviors to make sure they can use toilets and showers really a big feature in the game? Is it something demanding developer time right now given all the other priorities the game is facing?

    Physicalized sheets? Using bed shutters? Are they going to simulate the digestion of NPCs? The formation of fecal matter? How about splash physics? Waste reclamation? Will there be a detailed system to eject waste into space?

    Is any of this necessary right now?
    I guess it'd be a nice touch but it's not remotely relevant right now. NPCs have been bugged since 2017 and either march in place, stand in place, or are stuck T-posed in a chair, so you won't get to notice these details anyway.






  18. #12258
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I guess it'd be a nice touch but it's not remotely relevant right now. NPCs have been bugged since 2017 and either march in place, stand in place, or are stuck T-posed in a chair, so you won't get to notice these details anyway.
    I guess they are united in purpose to T-pose and look like some fucked up horror movie.

  19. #12259
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I guess it'd be a nice touch but it's not remotely relevant right now. NPCs have been bugged since 2017 and either march in place, stand in place, or are stuck T-posed in a chair, so you won't get to notice these details anyway.
    Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. There are bigger problems to address, and things like making sure NPC's can physically tuck themselves into bed and sit on a toilet - behaviors which players will not be regularly be encountering (and don't even need to be simulated "off-screen") should be later in the pipeline when all core NPC AI behaviors, especially critical NPC behaviors (vendors, things like the landing officer, ect.) and more commonly encountered NPC's (guards, 'filler' NPC's etc.), are already complete and locked in.

  20. #12260
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    snip
    I backed because i wanted a CR game where he does his best to make that game happen and accepting any and all risks that goes along with it, so failure to compromise is not a failure in management for developing the game you actually want. There are far too many lackluster space games and no other company is bothering to make them or at least one that gives the whole experience in one game.

    As long as it launches and there is a decent playerbase that plays it then its not a failure is it, doesnt matter is management is good or bad a good game is still a good game.
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