[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Kyanion]

I mean...it kinda is. The expansive feature set, the complex interwoven systems, the absolutely bonkers scope, the quality they're trying to meet for all of it etc.

It's arguably the most ambitious/difficult game that's been in development, and how long it's been in production (from early pre-production to full-scale production) and how much longer it still has to go speaks to that. It blows the timelines for major MMO's or a GTA V or RDR2 etc. out of the water, including when it comes to the development budget which exceeds the combined development/marketing budgets for just about any game I can think of. Whether that's all a good thing is another matter.

"it kinda is" is not exactly a ringing endorsement to 'probably the hardest game to make for any company.' Sure the scope and ambition for the game in theory is massive, will they ever get all of it out there? Doubt it. CIG decided to let feature creep rule them and you can see for yourself how far away this game is from launching. How much longer it still has to go also speaks to feature creep, redoing things over and over, not having a clue what they are doing, mismangement, time wasting, and so on.

Time will tell how far along they got before having to push it out or give up. Eventually this project will be 'finished' one way or another. Will it truly be the 'hardest game to make for any company'? That is very debatable.

[Cracked]

The expansive feature set

No contests here, Chris is an expert at feature creep.

the complex interwoven systems

Highly debatable, so far most of the presented systems are actually quite orthogonal rather than interwoven, and "complex" might be a stretch too. They do do put a lot of bells and whistles on the details though, which makes it shiiiiny.

the absolutely bonkers scope

Yeah, the desired scope, for certain. Current scope? Meh. (Assuming we are talking about scope of content here)

the quality they're trying to meet for all of it

No doubt. But they shouldn't forget they are making a game at the end of the day.

[Trifle]

It's arguably the most ambitious/difficult game that's been in development, and how long it's been in production (from early pre-production to full-scale production) and how much longer it still has to go speaks to that. It blows the timelines for major MMO's or a GTA V or RDR2 etc. out of the water, including when it comes to the development budget which exceeds the combined development/marketing budgets for just about any game I can think of.

Spending a lot of time and money developing something is hardly proof that it's hard to make or ambitious or whatever. It could just mean they haven't done a very good job of it.

[Proskill]

Have you tried multicrewing your Constelation? Grab to other players to man your turrets and a third to fly the parasite ship and even a forth for the missiles!

i did have to for my VHRT certification. everything is harder to kill now. VHRT was a breeze before 3.14.
i completed it with a random guy on one of my turrets. first i failed it as he killed the target and u cant share certs, but on the second try he didnt shoot after targets shield went down.
i think i need to start collecting money for some other solo-pilot ship for VHRT/ERTs, a more agile one

[MrAnderson]

I mean...it kinda is. The expansive feature set, the complex interwoven systems, the absolutely bonkers scope, the quality they're trying to meet for all of it etc.

It's arguably the most ambitious/difficult game that's been in development, and how long it's been in production (from early pre-production to full-scale production) and how much longer it still has to go speaks to that. It blows the timelines for major MMO's or a GTA V or RDR2 etc. out of the water, including when it comes to the development budget which exceeds the combined development/marketing budgets for just about any game I can think of. Whether that's all a good thing is another matter.

Never mind the fact that it's a crowdfunded project that there was basically no studio/staff, and that they are making 2 games at the same time.
Just those 3 facts alone increase the complexity by a tenfold at least.

As for Pyro, they've been showing bits of it along the year but it should be properly showcased in their main yearly convention in October. If I was CIG I'd do the demo starting in Crusader's Orison and then jump to Pyro System and land in one of the harshest planets for the contrast alone. There's still Nyx System and Odin being actively worked on that we know off:

[Proskill]

it still brings me to page 685, eventhough there is 686 available, and i keep pressing 'Last' button. moderators??????

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whats the difference between omnisky XV and m7a? both are laser cannons
and
omnisky XII and m6a? both are laser cannons

[Orange Joe]

it still brings me to page 685, eventhough there is 686 available, and i keep pressing 'Last' button. moderators??????

It's a "bug" on the forums. posts get deleted but it doesn't delete the page. after awhile they will sync back up.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

whats the difference between omnisky XV and m7a? both are laser cannons

According to Erkrul.Games, both weapons are exactly the same in terms of DPS. The only difference is that the M7As and the M6As give you a very tiny, slightly higher IR and EM signature than the Omniskys, but the difference is so miniscule it literally doesn't matter and stealth is borked anyway.

Despite being almost exactly the same, the M7A is 20k credits more expensive than the Omnisky XV. Not sure this means that the M7A will be rebalanced to actually do more DPS than the Ominksy XV, or if the price will be brought down, or what. I'm not sure if that website has been updated yet to account for the new rebalance, so it might be different right now ingame. That said, paying an extra 40k for a pair of guns that might turn out to be better can't hurt.

[Proskill]

i probably should have asked what was the difference before 3.14, because as u said now theyre pretty much identical for testing purposes. bought both sets anyway

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Something like this:

Constelation is way more tankier in 3.14

now when i switched to cannons doing VHRTs in andromeda is fun again, at least for me - a solo pilot
i just like the longer range, fits my playstyle, and the durability of shields while still having great firepower makes it a spacetank i wanted.
glad that i bought it

[MrAnderson]

i probably should have asked what was the difference before 3.14, because as u said now theyre pretty much identical for testing purposes. bought both sets anyway

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now when i switched to cannons doing VHRTs in andromeda is fun again, at least for me - a solo pilot
i just like the longer range, fits my playstyle, and the durability of shields while still having great firepower makes it a spacetank i wanted.
glad that i bought it

I use Atrittions , two fixed size 5 and two size 4 gimbales (they cant be changed to fixed dunno why, maybe bug)

[Proskill]

I use Atrittions , two fixed size 5 and two size 4 gimbales (they cant be changed to fixed dunno why, maybe bug)

i still dont fully understand gun types in SC. what are attritions exactly? theyre just like repeaters but closer range in exchange for more dmg? is that correct?
why would u go for such a close loadout with andromeda?

also that gimbal bug thing, does that mean andromeda is supposed to have 4 S5 fixed? cuz id love that. right now i have 2 S4 and 2 S5 cannons

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and again, after i go the last page through notification, it keeps bringing me back to page 685. cant go further pages when clicking them or the Last button.
cant check previous posts. omg

[LanToaster]

also that gimbal bug thing, does that mean andromeda is supposed to have 4 S5 fixed? cuz id love that. right now i have 2 S4 and 2 S5 cannons

Dunno if they changed it. But usually you are supposed to (with a few exceptions) to choose between having a Gimbal on a weaponslot (which will reduce the Size by 1), and a Fixed weapon.

[Henako]

games are taking longer to develop, games like cyberpunk and RDR2 took 8-9 years so when you actually pay attention to what SC is doing then 9 years is not that long

This isn't the comeback you think it is. Those games are released and more or less feature complete, even if Cyberpunk had a rocky launch. SC's crawl out of alpha is nowhere in sight.

[Heathy]

does it really matter how long it takes if a decent one of a kind game comes out of it at the end? I think most ppl are either shitting on this game because they have nothing better to do, or are simply waiting for it to get made. so you have ppl with no stake in this game, complaining about it, why? and then those who are waiting for it, continually trying to defend the reason why they backed it.

its pretty simple, is anyone else making a game like star citizen? no? then who really cares honestly about your personal gripe with how long its taking, even when you have no stake in it yourself. its not even like backers are complaining about it taking too long, its ppl who haven't backed it, you have no stake in it, why do you care? move on, play a game you enjoy. I've never seen so many ppl so concerned with something they aren't interested in, its trolling at this point. actually its been like that the whole way through this thread. ask yourself is what you're going to say, constructive, if not then don't say it.

basically we all backed this game because we liked what we saw and knew it was a game we wanted to play, no amount of 'its taking too long' is going to create a sudden epiphany and cause everyone to go get refunds even if we wanted refunds they don't do them afaik, or the time for that is long gone, we're in it until its finished. we have the game and so we're waiting for it to get made. I didn't spend that much on this game, I have an avenger titan and I have a friend who has a cutlass black, my bro bought the starter edition and just has a basic ship, together we have a little fleet that we could potentially do stuff with when the game is more playable/has a more lasting gameplay loop. at some point I see this game reaching a playable state, to the point where you could make it your main game, even when its still largely being developed, there will be a patch one day that makes it just playable enough to jump in and actually enjoy it. while development seems to have slowed down somewhat, every time I check on this game it still has forward momentum.

for proskill you might be able to fix your forum bug by deleting your cookies or temp internet files, it could be that its using a bugged cached version. its not bugged for me.

[MrAnderson]

i still dont fully understand gun types in SC. what are attritions exactly? theyre just like repeaters but closer range in exchange for more dmg? is that correct?
why would u go for such a close loadout with andromeda?

also that gimbal bug thing, does that mean andromeda is supposed to have 4 S5 fixed? cuz id love that. right now i have 2 S4 and 2 S5 cannons

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and again, after i go the last page through notification, it keeps bringing me back to page 685. cant go further pages when clicking them or the Last button.
cant check previous posts. omg

This video is a bit lenghty but worthy:



Make sure to read the edited description wich refers to the 3.14 changes.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

does it really matter how long it takes if a decent one of a kind game comes out of it at the end?

I think Star Citizen right now is a one of a kind game. It's just that there it's plagued by many problems that detract from the gameplay experience, and there just ultimately isn't that much to do. Currently the biggest problem IMO is that you derive the most fun from interacting with other players, but the star system is too big and the servers are too small so you almost never run into other people. Bounty hunters are almost never chasing criminals. You don't have mercenary players being hired to protect miners or traders. You don't have huge battles where beacons are going out calling more players to join the fray. Etc. Right now Star Citizen feels like a subpar singleplayer game, which it should not be. Star Citizen should be an MMO. Squadron 42 should be the good singleplayer experience, but who knows when it will come out.

are simply waiting for it to get made

My biggest fear is that the servers won't get fixed and we won't ever get SQ42. We've been told over and over that in order for more players and more stuff to be added to the game, they need server meshing. They said in early 2019 they had a working prototype of server meshing... and then never talked about it again, which makes me fear that they know they can't fix the servers but aren't saying it because saying it would kill sales. And ofcourse, they keep stringing us along about SQ42's development, which to me tells me that there is no SQ42 outside of the cutscenes we saw in trailers and a few demo levels Chris showed off at Citizencon to placate the backers.

basically we all backed this game because we liked what we saw and knew it was a game we wanted to play, no amount of 'its taking too long' is going to create a sudden epiphany and cause everyone to go get refunds even if we wanted refunds they don't do them afaik, or the time for that is long gone, we're in it until its finished.

I'm not going to get a refund. I got several hundred hours of fun out of Star Citizen. I'm just really disappointed that we're coming up on a decade and I haven't gotten the singleplayer game I backed for.

[Kyanion]

does it really matter how long it takes if a decent one of a kind game comes out of it at the end? I think most ppl are either shitting on this game because they have nothing better to do, or are simply waiting for it to get made. so you have ppl with no stake in this game, complaining about it, why? and then those who are waiting for it, continually trying to defend the reason why they backed it.

its pretty simple, is anyone else making a game like star citizen? no? then who really cares honestly about your personal gripe with how long its taking, even when you have no stake in it yourself. its not even like backers are complaining about it taking too long, its ppl who haven't backed it, you have no stake in it, why do you care? move on, play a game you enjoy. I've never seen so many ppl so concerned with something they aren't interested in, its trolling at this point. actually its been like that the whole way through this thread. ask yourself is what you're going to say, constructive, if not then don't say it.

And yet you come rolling in as if you're a mod telling people how we can or can't post. Classy. I was going to write out a response to this breaking down why it does matter that it is taking that long, but it doesn't matter. You don't care, you just wanted to attack people that are critical of the game.

[Heathy]

no just sick of the back and forth whining from ppl who don't even have the game, struck a nerve did I? good. op success.

no amount of critical whining is going to make the game come out any faster, the sooner ppl learn this the better. its going to take as long as it takes, regardless of how much complaining there is. for the most part you're just wasting your breath. on something that will amount to nothing.

yes we all want to play a completed version of star citizen, no repeating the same nonsense over and over again isn't going to change anything. the game will still take as long as it takes. if it takes another 5 years 10 years 15 years, however long it takes, are you prepared to keep this up for that long? how much time do plan on maintaining the vendetta? because I assure you, that your time will not be spent in a constructive way. upto the point where the game is actually playable, and you end up buying it anyway. its not playable enough for you now? ok thats fine, I'm not playing it either. but either you're going to complain about the game right up to the point that it releases and still not buy into it, or you are going to ultimately buy into it, whenever it is that it reaches a playable (for most ppl) state.

so either you are waiting for the time where you will ultimately buy the game or even when it is 'out' you still won't buy it, do you think all the time you spent complaining about a game you have no intention of buying was a worthwhile investment of time? for example you know, time you could spend doing something you do in fact enjoy. or is it that ppl simply enjoy shitting on things to make themselves feel better, it definitely feels like that could be the case here, or ppl just enjoy being contrarian for no real reason other than to be that way. you know the point at which you do decide to buy the game is obviously going to completely invalidate the hours upon hours you spent complaining about it. sit back, enjoy the ride buy the game or don't. you aren't going to convince anyone who bought the game of anything. either it becomes a great game or it doesn't and life goes on. its no where near as big of a deal as its made out to be. i'm pretty certain that, if star citizen doesn't do well, you won't see another game of this scope for a long long time. since no one else is going to take the risk (both gaming studios and ppl who backed this there won't be any faith for another go) if this doesn't do well. hope you like gaming staying the way it is with minimal or no innovation at all. if you enjoy gaming at all, you should be hoping this does well, if thats the case the future of gaming could be bright, with more games of similar scope. as gamers we want innovation. we want more of this to happen. betting against it is betting against a better future of gaming. or it is that we want another 20 years of call of duties because that would be disappointing. just more of the same. over and over again. VR isn't exactly doing that great, it still not accessible for most ppl, no VR game is trending on twitch so that boat isn't the saving grace of gaming. no matter how many ppl wish it was.

just trying to inject a bit of logical discussion here, obviously you must be somewhat interested in the game or you wouldn't have posted in this thread multiple times. do you really think its in your best interest to bet against it? are you simply waiting for the 'I told you so' day? what if that day never comes? do you think your time here would have been worthwhile? in the end i'd actually prefer to do ppl a favour and spare you time and effort. perhaps move the discussion past the 'I could have made star citizen in a weekend whats taking them so long' posts.

[Heathy]

yes regurgitated complaints. get regurgitated responses unfortunately. that is the way. what else do ppl expect, for me or anyone else to travel down to their offices and start a protest? not worth the time. feels bad for those who threw their wallets at this game, I personally didn't care at all about the single player portion of this game I didn't buy that. it might have been interesting if they kept it co-op but alas. for me i'm waiting for the actual multiplayer part of the game, since I don't really care much for single player games. I think its mainly because I hate being the singular driving force of a game where the 'game' revolves around you and nothing else is happening anywhere but only where you are. it always takes me out of the game. and there are loads of games like this already. sq42 doesn't at least to me, seem to be the interesting part of SC. I can't see it delivering the same level of dynamic that you get out of a multiplayer experience.

on the bright side I know that a lot of what they create for sq42 will in some way make it to the PU. so i don't feel as though they are wasting time making the single player portion of the game, since those assets can simply be used in the PU as well.

the mismanagement of this game is perhaps criminal, but at some point you have to move on, the development hasn't ceased so there is still hope that we'll both get a playable game one day. I backed this game a couple years ago, according to my oldest email from roberts it was may 2019, even back then you could tell that this game was going to take an absolute age to make and I set my expectation all the way back then. I knew that buying into this i could be waiting 10+ years for a completed game, I remember ppl saying that this game wouldn't even be finished by 2025. that was when there was more optimism. but I just accept that its a complex game, its going to take time to make.

if you want to make most types of games there is documentation out there on how to do it, if you want to make an RTS you can find information out there on how to do that, if you want to make a first person shooter, the same, you can find information about how other developers managed to do it. but for a game like star citizen, I accept that there is no defined blue print on how you go about creating something like this and it is a first. I can sympathise somewhat with the idea that this was always going to be more iterative than anything that came before it. and backing a game like this is simply saying 'yes I want to play this game' it is a gamble, you have no idea if it'll actually get made and no guarantee, its a leap of faith. any game i've bought in early access, I accept that I may not get to play a finished product. but ill back a game I want to play in the hopes that my money is the equivalent of saying 'yes make more of these types of games' or simply 'I support this idea'. to me that is enough. whether I get the game or not. if it spurs other developers into making similar games or trying to push innovation, then it was a success.

[Kyanion]

no just sick of the back and forth whining from ppl who don't even have the game, struck a nerve did I? good. op success.

You don't have to own the game or even have played the game to comment on the game. Don't like that? Too bad.

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no amount of critical whining is going to make the game come out any faster, the sooner ppl learn this the better. its going to take as long as it takes, regardless of how much complaining there is. for the most part you're just wasting your breath. on something that will amount to nothing.

Yet here you are wasting your breath on something that will amount to nothing as well. Irony.

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the mismanagement of this game is perhaps criminal, but at some point you have to move on, the development hasn't ceased so there is still hope that we'll both get a playable game one day.

That is like saying, "Oh I know they have wasted millions of dollars and years making this game, but maybe one day a game will come out of it. But while we wait let us attack people who aren't okay with this and defend more money being tossed into the pit and more years of waiting." That is crazy. I don't get why people keep tossing money and supporting a company that may be lying about SQ42 and server meshing.