[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Heathy]

??? Ok, this is reaching pure silliness levels now. People are allowed to call something what they think it is without having to go to court and prove it is what they think it is....

yep it reached sillyness when ppl start comparing gaming companies to scam call centres to try to make a point. whatever that point was, slander maybe not sure. if your opinion is right, prove it. do something about it.

You don't get to decide how I meant something, I get to decide that. I know how I intended the comparison to be and I have tried to explain it in my previous response.

shame I can't read minds, you keep deciding what you mean, ill keep interpreting what you've written. as its written.

Sure but we can point to a multitude of examples that have occurred over the years to support a conclusion. Just because they are working on something does not make these examples irrelevant. In August 2016 Chris knew full well he could not deliver 3.0 by the end of the year (it would take another 15 months for them to deliver it) but that didn't stop him claiming it and providing a nice shiny $750 ship people could buy on the back of that good news. Personally I think if you do things like that you are scamming people.

ok then take your conclusion, and sue the company, nothing less is going to get you want you want, yall can keep bitching and moaning about the game endlessly, or you can do something about it. or not. crying on this random forum isn't going to smite chris roberts. the company isn't going to sue itself. if you feel that hard done by, that is your only recourse. not sure why this needs to be so cyclical, save yourselfs, months, years of whining about this game, ppl hate on this game more than I care to see it succeed. I'd like to see a game of this scope exist one day, I'm not willing to spend much effort hoping that'll be the case. it either happens or it doesn't. its not really worth the effort or the stress.

And I want to achieve world peace, I see I'm making as much progress on that front as CIG is with server meshing. Who cares what they 'want' to do. What do they have after 12 years and 500 million dollars? Not the server meshing they promised that's for damn sure.

Then get out there is achieve world peace, you're not going to get very far toward achieving that goal complaining about SC. they are still doing more to create the game than you're doing to achieve world peace.

sitting here grimacing at the sound of chris roberts name isn't going to bring about the justice ppl seem to want. that requires action.

[Kyanion]

It could survive actually without server meshing, the game is not reliant on having lots of ppl interacting in the same area, more player interaction just allows for a better experience

LOLNO. Marketing the game as a MMO that cannot have many people on the server is a fucking disaster of epic proportions. Even WORSE when you look at the damn cash shop and see the amount of ships requiring many players at once on them.

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pyro is when they are implementing the first version of server meshing so claiming they dont have the foundation is wrong

If it ain't in the game right now then it doesn't really matter does it? This magical server meshing tech sure can do everything, wonder why it isn't actually you know...in the game yet.

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They dont need to get 1000s of ppl to all be able to see each other in the same area

Uh yes, they kind of do. That would be the point of massive fleet space battles wouldn't it? Have crews piloting ships to fight each other. Kind of pointless if more than 100 people makes the server melt down huh? I love how you walk things back though. Fucking comical.

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anyone expecting to see thousands of players and hundreds of ships all in the same instance is not in touch with reality, each instance should have no problems handing a few hundred players and ships since each instance will only handle a certain area instead of everything in the system.

You know that stuff the game can't do because it cannot have a 'few hundred players' anywhere at any time.

And yes, that game better be able to have thousands of players in a massive ship battle, because whats the damn point of huge ships with 10+ crews? To look pretty? Oh right that IS the game right now.

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if a company is working on something then it does exist

The company may 'exist' but the thing they are working on does not 'exist' yet.

I started a company that is working on a planet destroying death ray. It exists. Plz give me money.

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we currently have a game better than many games even in an alpha

We do? Where is the MMO exactly?

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Then get out there is achieve world peace, you're not going to get very far toward achieving that goal complaining about SC. they are still doing more to create the game than you're doing to achieve world peace.

sitting here grimacing at the sound of chris roberts name isn't going to bring about the justice ppl seem to want. that requires action.

I am making progress on world peace, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Yeah well if I had 500 million dollars I'd be able to promote more world peace, want to help out?

[Proskill]

what do i need to do in order to get access to all the ships? enter some code on the website when it goes live? cuz ive just checked and its not available yet, theres a countdown - ~7 hours left for it to start

[kenn9530]

what do i need to do in order to get access to all the ships? enter some code on the website when it goes live? cuz ive just checked and its not available yet, theres a countdown - ~7 hours left for it to start

Most ships will either be available to rent via the renting terminals or you can rent them while looking at the ships in the expo centre. You wont be able to rent them until it live though.

[Proskill]

Most ships will either be available to rent via the renting terminals or you can rent them while looking at the ships in the expo centre. You wont be able to rent them until it live though.

What's the event that I need to enter a code on the website then?

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Does Drake Corsair really have 4 size 6 guns and 2 size 5's? and they're all pilot controlled?
compared to Andromeda's 2 size 5's and 2 size 4's? or even 600i's 4 size 4's?
If yes then it's my new favorite ship and can't wait to get one ingame.
I'm a solo player and love long range high alpha damage cannons on my ships.

[kenn9530]

What's the event that I need to enter a code on the website then?

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Does Drake Corsair really have 4 size 6 guns and 2 size 5's? and they're all pilot controlled?
compared to Andromeda's 2 size 5's and 2 size 4's? or even 600i's 4 size 4's?
If yes then it's my new favorite ship and can't wait to get one ingame.
I'm a solo player and love long range high alpha damage cannons on my ships.

The codes are for players with no packages to create a free fly account, anyone with an account can run around the event and rent the ships available.

The corsair has size 5 and size 4 slots on wings, but they are size 4 gimballed so it has a little more pilot controlled firepower that the connie but has less shields, it will be a solid all round ship for PvE, PvP wise a small ship can stay on its ass and wipe it out fast. 4 Size 4 guns on the nose and the wings have size 3 gimballs, also a few other turrets with size 3s for other crew

[Val the Moofia Boss]

If yes then it's my new favorite ship and can't wait to get one ingame.
I'm a solo player and love long range high alpha damage cannons on my ships.

Beware that Corsair is very sluggish compared to the 400i and the Connie. You might do well against braindead NPC ships, but if you want to fight other players you're going to be in trouble.

[Proskill]

Beware that Corsair is very sluggish compared to the 400i and the Connie. You might do well against braindead NPC ships, but if you want to fight other players you're going to be in trouble.

i never pvp'd in this game. i only care about NPC bounty farming, and thats what i did with andromeda - shoot from afar in a straight line, cuz my PC cant handle dogfights *shrugs*

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The codes are for players with no packages to create a free fly account, anyone with an account can run around the event and rent the ships available.

i remember there was an event back in 2021 that i needed to enter some code on the website, eventhough i was a pledger. otherwise i didnt have those ships available to me, and it was like around 7 of them then. MSR included. it could have been august or smth

[kenn9530]

i remember there was an event back in 2021 that i needed to enter some code on the website, eventhough i was a pledger. otherwise i didnt have those ships available to me, and it was like around 7 of them then. MSR included. it could have been august or smth

I have never had to put in a code to play the game, maybe if you melted a game package at the time, during certain events they sometimes give players access to more ships, but most events you can just rent what is flyable anyway.

[Proskill]

The corsair has size 5 and size 4 slots on wings, but they are size 4 gimballed so it has a little more pilot controlled firepower that the connie but has less shields, it will be a solid all round ship for PvE, PvP wise a small ship can stay on its ass and wipe it out fast. 4 Size 4 guns on the nose and the wings have size 3 gimballs, also a few other turrets with size 3s for other crew

'The M6A Cannon is a size 4 laser cannon'
shit, i assumed its size 6. i was watching olli43 video about corsair and saw 4x M6A and 2x M5A thinking to myself its crazy good xd

[kenn9530]

'The M6A Cannon is a size 4 laser cannon'
shit, i assumed its size 6. i was watching olli43 video about corsair and saw 4x M6A and 2x M5A thinking to myself its crazy good xd

The corsair being a newer designed ship can fill multiple roles easier than some of the earlier ships, its primary role is exploration but its decent in a PvE fight and have decent shields to survive, you can try fixed size 5 weapons but fixed is not usually good in slower ships, corsair and using canons allows you to stick full power to shields most of the time and occasionally switch to weapons for a fast recharge when needed, helps with it having one less shield than a connie has.

[Cloverfield]

It's not the same token at all because no one has that black or white view of things. Game development history has shown that all studios, multiple games, from all kinds of genres and different cultures having delays and changes of scope and overall hurdles. Doesn't mean those dev's and studios are incompetent or fraudulent. Those claims can only be made in retrospective and post-mortem.

It rather seems it is actually the view where size and ambition can be the only possible explanation for delays the one that is the limited or black and white one here. I prefer to actually expand that rigid view into full grey territory by describing additional reasons for those delays: Bigger and ambitious games take time indeed but, as it has been shown, that is not the only reason for projects taking a long time: Incompetence or potential fraud (or both) are also a very common reason for delays and non delivery, that you had forgotten to consider. Some exemples of incompetence/fraud lasted well over a decade.

SC/SQ42 delays and and non delivery could be because they are "big and ambitious", or instead be simply the consequence of incompetence and/or fraud. Given SC/SQ42 extremely poor track record of continuous failed announcements and estimates over 10 years while keeping all the money generated due to the hype of said announcements, and the very sub par status of SC after all that time, this incompetence and potential fraud scenario can not be easily ignored as you do with your black and white approach I am afraid.

The continuous growth of their company and development of the game along with the increasing growth of their player base and consequently funding categorically proves otherwise.

And yet CIG has released in gold exactly zero games in over 10+ years. But that is by the by, your argument does not necessarily follow: Theranos also grew, to a valuation of $9 billion and expanded its board to include 2 former US secretaries of state and additional investors of such high profile as Robert Murdoch or the Walton family (Walmart). Enron also, between 1996 and 2000, increased its revenues by more than 750%, rising from $13 billion in 1996 to $100 billion in 2000. Etc etc etc.

The common factor to all those exemples, including CIG, is that despite that growth and expansion the delivered product was extremely sub par. So much so that in some of those cases their leadership was also charged with fraud.

Money is money. Doesn't matter if it's one gamer giving out $1Million dollars or 1 million individual gamers giving out $1 dollar each.

Oh, I am pretty sure Chris Roberts and CIG indeed do not care much where the money is coming from, for as long as it comes of course. No qualms there. Much like I am pretty sure those responsible for the Theranos, Madoff, or Keely Motors frauds did not care much either for as long as the money flowed (over a decade in some cases).

The ones that probably think it does matter a great deal though, are those who lost their money in all those cases with no actual product (or a very sub par one) in return after so many years. Much like there is no product release in gold after 10 years and half a billion dollars in the case of SC/SQ42.

As long as the terms of the arrangement when pledging are met it's Chris Roberts and CIG money to use as they see fit to develop their games as they want.

Yeah, you must be right. I am sure the investments terms were totally a great consolation for the victims that lost their money in the cases mentioned above.

Just a pinch then.

None, actually. All it takes is to simply realize that incompetence and/or fraud are also a reason for delays and non delivery, and then cross check that with the SC/SQ42 track record of delays and non delivery, over 10+years, 500+ millions contributed by backers spent (quite a bit of that in Roberts and his family´s pockets) with zero products released in gold. Just a bit of common sense.

Continuous player growth and funding show's player interest is growing not declining.

I do not know man, as shown above, "funds" is not necessarily a great guarantee of a good delivery. Also, CIG has not wanted to show us live concurrency metrics, one of the most fundamental player interest metrics out there, for over 10+ years. I would go out on a limb here and venture to guess that that is because the figure would probably show Star Citizen in a very por light regarding actual player engagement.

He never said it would though. Because it's not the focus of Chris Roberts idea of the Best Damned Space Sim Ever.

Well, the first reason you argued against larger scales was because limited speeds in the game would not allow them. When that was debunked with the simple solution of increasing traverse speeds then we went into discussing the limitations of the engine where you also argued that the lack of steering in quantum (unlike games like Infinity or Elite) for exemple was because of "data limitations", when that was debunked given that non quantum steered flight already exists and the data has to be processed anyways you try to argue Chris never wanted that in the first place... Text book exemple of the fox and the grapes fable

I mean, how many times we need to move the goal posts here to suit you before you concede SC´s engine has severe limitations to handle larger scales?

As discussed Chris never said he was going to do tiny scales either. What he has indeed sold all this time though is the Best Damned Space Sim Ever with the highest levels of fidelity in the genre. And an often stated vision to rival or best anything else out there. If he could do it, why wouldn´t he? Given the overly stated ambition for SC and all the technical limitations in the engine it is quite clear that if he has not done it yet is because he just can´t.

Not a problem when it's such a massively and detailed system. Plenty to do and have fun with.

That is indeed one opinion. Sadly CIG does not publish live concurrency figures with which to understand if your opinion is actually shared in reasonable numbers by other players. I actually think SC gameplay is severly limited, and most importantly extremely broken, buggy and glitchy. To the point of making the whole experience very sub par. And which would explain why CIG does not like to publish live concurrency figures.

It makes all the sense for a skillbased game with client-server architecture and with heavy loads of entities/calculations/physics.

It really does not. Ships in SC are already steerable at non quantum combat speeds and the client-server "architecture" already has to consider all player decisions in real time in their trajectory (not that it does it successfully anyways). The fact the engine can not attempt to do the same at quantum speeds points to serious limitations in that engine to manage large scale, large dynamic changes in real time, and the large speeds that go with it. The fact physics in the game continue by and large to be severely broken after so much time also points to fundamental issues related with that same engine as physics depend on it.

In the context of the interesting and complex planets the gameplay is very much alike in Space Engine or Eliteangerous. After all those "1:1 planets" are just 2D skins wrapped around 1:1 planet sized balls that can only be observed from far away. Game engine limitations and all that.

Not really, the context is precisely that any 2D assets that may exist in actual games are in addition to other 3D, or otherwise non 2D assets, where gameplay features, loops or mechanics and related gameplay physics of any kind need to actually interact. Which never happen in Space Engine 3D assets.

Now now, Let's not pretend Star Citizen is the only game one can glitch inside the planet shall we.

You also can find a similar bug in NMS and Elden Ring for exemple. The thing is that, unlike SC, these bugs are rare and happen much more rarely, or are much less game breaking, in all these games. Also, games like NMS or Elden Ring are already recognized classics, at the tops of the usual "best games" lists of their respective categories, unlike SC.

No one here is arguing most games don´t have their share of bugs, even already recognized classics. What is being argued is that SC is special and different because they happen to come up much more frequently than in other games and it has orders of magnitude more bugs and more game breaking than in those other games.

I mean, SC is severely incomplete and broken, so much so that it is probably one of the few communities where you can find a huge library of videos and posts specifically dedicated to guides about how to avoid those bugs.







Etc etc etc

Don't you agree though? Star Citizen features much better detail and fidelity in it's planets than Elite or NMS?

I really don´t, sadly. "Detail and fidelity" are often understood in the SC community as just the graphics. And as discussed that would be a very narrow and limited view of what makes a game great though. Planets are not just "the trees" you can see on them, it is primarily about the gameplay and features players can actually reliably and stably engage with on them. And on that combined front, games like NMS or Elite are way ahead.

And above all in all those other games you can have, by and large consistently stable sessions with working physics and reasonable AI. None of these is really possible in SC´s "high detail and fidelity".

Detail and Fidelity encompasses all.

Indeed, that is precisely my point. Except that in SC, unlike NMS, Space Engineers or Elite, gameplay elements are largely incomplete and what is there does not really work.

Well if it wasn't possible Star Citizen player base wouldn't keep playing and continuously grow every year

I do not know man. As for the alleged money growth, CIG has not delivered a single game in gold for over 10+ years. And what we have now is extremely sub par, incomplete and broken. Not sure more money is going to help much in that regard. And as for player engagement, CIG has not even dared to show a basic and fundamental player engagement metric such as live concurrency for about as long. Which suggests the figure is likely bad and CIG does not want to show it.

[Proskill]

so changing from gimble to fixed weapons on corsair thats 4 size 5 and 2 size 4 pilot controlled guns. thats more alpha dmg than 600i. is that currently the best in the game?

[kenn9530]

so changing from gimble to fixed weapons on corsair thats 4 size 5 and 2 size 4 pilot controlled guns. thats more alpha dmg than 600i. is that currently the best in the game?

Give it a try not sure how easy it will be to hit things without gimbals though, https://www.erkul.games/live/calculator can check out different loadout potential. Fixed canons will give it a good amount of firepower over most ships of its size and some larger ships, only useful if you can hit things though.

[Proskill]

i did ok with fixed cannons on andromeda. shooting from around 4kms. if in trouble speed away and turn around in decoupled mode worked just fine against smaller NPCs

[Proskill]

can ROC fit into the corsair?

can u mine gems planetside with a prospector? same gems u can mine with ROC. apparently theres a distinction between gems and diamonds

what is cutter good for? as in which gameplay loop will it cover the best? is it decent for trading and hauling? can it fit ROC too?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

can ROC fit into the corsair?

You can fit an environmentally sealed Ursa Rover inside the Corsair so anything smaller than that should fit too.

what is cutter good for?

Starter ship for players who want to be able to haul a small vehicle around. Ideal if you're going to do ground FPS combat or bounty hunting. Land a short distance outside of the range of a bunker's turrets or outside of radar range from a player bounty you are tracking or a miner you want to whack, drive in to sniper range with your vehicle, dismount, kill target.

IIRC you can just barely squeeze a hoverbike into the Avenger's cargo bay if you want to do that too but also have a more agile, more combat capable ship.

[Yelmurc]

Few SC videos in case anyone is interest in the new ships or the ship pipeline.

Drake Cutter and 600i Rework


Hour long talk about the ship pipeline.


RSI Galaxy and Anvil C8R


If you're interested in the RSI Polaris next Thursday, they will be talking about its rework on Inside Star Citizen

[Proskill]

so basically its not worth getting drake cutter when i have avenger titan? i was considering buying it since its cheap and on a discount now. i cant rly afford something bigger like andromeda, corsair or 600i for real money, but cutter is within my reach

[Val the Moofia Boss]

so basically its not worth getting drake cutter when i have avenger titan?

If you prefer the aesthetic look of the Cutter to the Titan, and/or prefer having a little more space so you can carry slightly larger ground vehicles, then the Cutter is decent option. But if all you do is blow up ships in space then the Avenger is going to be better gameplay wise.

i was considering buying it since its cheap and on a discount now.

I don't see why one would need to own more than one small ship. If you want to try out a different small ship, then IIRC you can melt your current ship and get a different small ship (up to the price of your original ship), and if you don't like it then you can melt back to what you had before.

i cant rly afford something bigger like andromeda, corsair or 600i for real money

I wouldn't be concerned about acquiring larger ships ATM. The only thing to do with them is to blow up larger bandit spaceships. SC isn't going to reach a point where there is going to be a lot to do with those larger spaceships for a long time, if ever. Account progression is wiped pretty often, rendering your time spent grinding ingame pointless.