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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Saninicus's Avatar
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    Gamers are being "undercharged" not over charged according to some investor suit.

    This corprate rat might have a career with donald trump. Brace yourselves this is rage fuel. While I do understand making AAA games ain't cheap. If this trend towards micro-transactions doesn't stop. It's the EAs and activisons that suffer. Not us gamers. the article can be found here.

    It's always fun to contrast the enthusiast side of the videogame industry—that's us—to the colder, harder business side of things. Take the ongoing Star Wars Battlefront 2 clown show, for instance. Gamers pushed back forcefully against what they saw as egregious loot box overreach, forcing a last-minute decision to remove microtransactions from the game. Victory!

    Of course, the removal is only temporary, a point emphasized by EA's follow-up statement that the change "is not expected to have a material impact on EA's fiscal year 2018." Which is what you'd expect the company to say, since the last thing it wants to do is spook the investors. Even so, EA shares have slid somewhat over the past month, but analyst Evan Wingren of KeyBanc Capital Markets believes that's potentially an opportunity for investors—and, more to the point, that the backlash against Battlefront 2 is an "overreaction" amongst gamers and the gaming press, who just don't know how good they've got it.


    "We view the negative reaction to Star Wars Battlefront 2 (and industry trading sympathy) as an opportunity to add to Electronic Arts, Take-Two, and Activision Blizzard positions. The handling of the SWBF2 launch by EA has been poor; despite this, we view the suspension of MTX [micro-transactions] in the near term as a transitory risk," Wingren wrote in a note to clients over the weekend, via CNBC.

    Gamers aren't overcharged, they're undercharged (and we're gamers) ... This saga has been a perfect storm for overreaction as it involves EA, Star Wars, Reddit, and certain purist gaming journalists/outlets who dislike MTX."

    (The "add to positions" recommendation, by the way, simply means that this is a good time to buy stocks in EA and the rest, because ultimately they will continue to gain value—the implication being that the Great Loot Box Triumph of '17 is in fact just a bump in the road that won't have any meaningful impact on the company in the long run.)

    What it comes down to, in Wingren's estimation, is a simple measure of cost per hour relative to other forms of entertainment. He reckons that, at $60 for the base game plus $20 per month in loot boxes, Battlefront 2 works out to about 40 cents per hour if you play for 2.5 hours a day for a year. Compare that to $3 per hour for a movie watched in a theater, and videogames look like a real bargain.
    [B]
    "If you take a step back and look at the data, an hour of videogame content is still one of the cheapest forms of entertainment," Wingren wrote. "Quantitative analysis shows that videogame publishers are actually charging gamers at a relatively inexpensive rate, and should probably raise prices."

    "Despite its inconvenience to the popular press narrative, if you like Star Wars and play videogames at an average rate, you're far better off skipping the movie and playing the game to get the most bang for your buck."

    These are the most relevant parts of the article. This guy sounds just like ajeet pai. A corporate shill. He did mention 2k games. How well did evolve do? The game that had 400 different collectors editions and was plugging DLC before the first screen shot came out? The game that launched with 100 bucks of day one DLC? The game that 2k abandoned after turtle rock tried to salvage it? How did that do?

    Now we move to Activision/blizzard. Blizzard released WoD and people didn't get fired. Nuff said. Actvision has been whoring out CoD and nothing else. No no IPs just the same game with a different coat of paint. I sure hope blizzard gots an ironclad contract because it wouldn't surpise me if Actvision wants to get a hold of overwatch.we see the awful shit Destiny2 has become. RIP bungie. From golden boy to an utter disgrace.

    Now we move on to EA the fuckers that are responsible for the state of AAA ganes. These fucks peddling "games as a service" these fuckers that have destroyed legendary Studios such as bioware, maxis and slew of others. The same people that wanted to do to bf4. Like they did to battlefront 2. They need to be aware this buisness model isn't sustainable.

    But according to some shill fiscal analyst we gamers should be happy to get screwed

    Post constructively. -Infracted. Lucetia

    I'll add I shouldn't post while angry.
    Last edited by Saninicus; 2017-12-29 at 12:41 PM.
    Apparently I'm an alt-right apologist and trump supporter.

    This is news to me since I don't like trump at all. Nor support the alt-right.

  2. #2
    I understand that game budgets have gone up a lot. I wish they'd increase the baseline price and get rid of the microtransaction bs but I know the latter won't happen.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    This spunk gobbler might have a career with donald trump. Brace yourselves this is rage fuel. While I do understand making AAA games ain't cheap. If this trend towards micro-transactions doesn't stop. It's the EAs and activisons that suffer. Not us gamers. the article can be found here.



    These are the most relevant parts of the article. This guy sounds just like ajeet pai. A corporate cum guzzler. He did mention 2k games. Hiw well did evolve do? The game that had 400 different collectors editions and was plugging DLC before the first screen shot came out? The game that launched with 100 bucks of day one DLC? The gane that 2k abandoned after turtle rock tried to salvage it? How did that do?

    Now we move to Activision/blizzard. Blizzard released WoD and people didn't get fired. Nuff said. Actvision has been whoring out CoD and nothing else. No no IPs just the sane game with a different coat of paint. I sure hope blizzard gots an irinclad contract because it wouldn't surpise me if Actvision wants to get a hold of overwatch.we see the awful shit Destiny2 has become. RIP bungie. From golden boy to an utter disgrace.

    Now we move on to EA the fuckers that are responsible for the state of AAA ganes. These fucks peddling "games as a service" these fuckers that have destroyed legendary Studios suck as bioware, maxis and slew of others. The sane fuckers that wanted to do to bf4. Like they did to battlefront 2. They need to be aware this buisness model isn't sustainable.

    But according to sone jackoff fiscal analyst we gamers should be happy to get fucked.
    Two takeaways from this article

    A) the guy clearly has more sense than you do, as you're ignoring his facts that he lays out and just denying them
    B) you may want to see a psychiatrist because you're way too upset over an article. Your wall of rambling is a bit insane
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  4. #4
    You forgot to provide a link.

    Ontopic: While his rant is dumb as fuck there is a small grain of truth. Gaming now is the cheapest its ever been. You can spend $60 (or less) and get a full game and even if you buy a game plus its season pass that is still cheaper then it was back in the day.

    Chrono Trigger released in 1995 at the price of $80 in the US, Adjust for Inflation compared to now and that is $149.83 USD. There is many high quality games u can get for $60 or less now.

    Also like back then there is also a lot of shitty games that is full price as well. Publishers have learned that $60 is the break off point.

    (My above comment is about in the US, Don't know about the rest of the world)
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  5. #5
    Baseline price doesn't need to go up, because game production has become easier since the first golden age of gaming (SNES/SEGA).

    Microtransactions and gambling loot crates is a short term fad, but eventually the gaming industry will go back to p2p/b2p products. Right now they are able to double dip with p2p/b2p products with microtransactions, gambling loot crates, etc.

    But there is a saturation point where that well dries up. It is near that saturation point and the gaming industry will have to collapse somewhat to come back stronger again IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
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  6. #6
    Scarab Lord NatePsychotic's Avatar
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    I dunno what he's smoking but shit that's some strong stuff. Aussies pay like $80+ for base games alone for AAA+ games, factor in collectors? Close to nearly $120 for that. I'm sorry but there's a reason I only play MMO's, because they don't charge ridiculous prices like EA Games does and many other companies. Not to mention half these games come with missing content in the form of DLC. "Yeah thanks for your $80 but you're gonna have to shell out even more money for DLC"

    Pompous prick investor being pompous.
    Last edited by NatePsychotic; 2017-12-29 at 06:35 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You forgot to provide a link.

    Ontopic: While his rant is dumb as fuck there is a small grain of truth. Gaming now is the cheapest its ever been. You can spend $60 (or less) and get a full game and even if you buy a game plus its season pass that is still cheaper then it was back in the day.

    Chrono Trigger released in 1995 at the price of $80 in the US, Adjust for Inflation compared to now and that is $149.83 USD. There is many high quality games u can get for $60 or less now.

    Also like back then there is also a lot of shitty games that is full price as well.

    (My above comment is about in the US, Don't know about the rest of the world)
    Gaming cartridges were more costly back then to make then now.

    Gaming consoles have stayed relatively around the correct price, because they are still costly to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
    7.2 We fly!!!

  8. #8
    Considering the huge amount of spelling mistakes I can easily imagine the spittle covering your monitor as you write this.

    Ok, let's see. Vulgar deprecations against the writer. Believing people should be fired because you didn't like an expansion. More insults to companies as if they've personally offended you. A game that's only been out two weeks has apparently already been declared a failure. More profanity. Yeah, games being a service sounds pretty correct. And finishing it off by saying the author thinks we should be getting robbed.

    Wow. All I can say man, is you need to find some medication and fast.
    If you want to find out who rules you, find out whose opinions you're not allowed to disagree with without being punished.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Skizzit's Avatar
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    This is the same misguided argument I have seen before. Their example is just wrong. No one is going to play Battllefront II for 2.5 hours a day for an entire year. That's just not how games work. I have also seen the whole inflation argument and while in a way that one at least makes some sense, it is still misguided. Markets are guided by the customer. Things cost what people will pay for them. Game's cost on average $60 because that's what people are comfortable paying. If they suddenly tried to up the cost to $70, it would seriously hurt their sales. That's all there is to it. Games cost what people are willing to pay for them and no argument about how games are a "better deal" that other forms of entertainment is going to change that.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Saninicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azkial View Post
    Two takeaways from this article

    A) the guy clearly has more sense than you do, as you're ignoring his facts that he lays out and just denying them
    B) you may want to see a psychiatrist because you're way too upset over an article. Your wall of rambling is a bit insane
    Hey found the guy that wrote the article. What price did you put up your soul for?
    Apparently I'm an alt-right apologist and trump supporter.

    This is news to me since I don't like trump at all. Nor support the alt-right.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Gaming cartridges were more costly back then to make then now.

    Gaming consoles have stayed relatively around the correct price, because they are still costly to make.
    Game development is more costly compared to back then. Unless you want the Jill Sandwich voice acting back it was bound to happen.

    Games have sit at a $60 price tag for over a decade and before was $50 (for CD based games ps1,ps2 ect..).

    Gaming is factually cheaper now then it was 17 years ago or longer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    Hey found the guy that wrote the article. What price did you put up your soul for?
    Quite a mature argument you got there......

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  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Saninicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Considering the huge amount of spelling mistakes I can easily imagine the spittle covering your monitor as you write this.

    Ok, let's see. Vulgar deprecations against the writer. Believing people should be fired because you didn't like an expansion. More insults to companies as if they've personally offended you. A game that's only been out two weeks has apparently already been declared a failure. More profanity. Yeah, games being a service sounds pretty correct. And finishing it off by saying the author thinks we should be getting robbed.

    Wow. All I can say man, is you need to find some medication and fast.
    Did you play WoD? Metzen banked big on project titan. So big he grabbed everyone with a pulse to work on. Welp it didn't go anywhere and like a typical Californian he experienced "panic attacks" at the first bit of failure he ever experienced. Meanwhile his shit management realized that that WoW could still make money. Then we got that fucking awful xpack. Only preach and asmagold loved it. Yes people should've lost their jobs once they released 6.1.
    Apparently I'm an alt-right apologist and trump supporter.

    This is news to me since I don't like trump at all. Nor support the alt-right.

  13. #13
    Meanwhile Platinum games makes games like Bayonetta and Nier Automata on lower budgets then EA costs to make fucking map packs.

    Yes dev costs have gone up, but most of that is on western 3rd party developers not understanding how to properly budget their games. About the only one I can think of that does is probably Bethesda.

  14. #14
    AAA games are garbage anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rassium View Post
    I like General Off-Topic. It's really cool to see people with My Little Pony avatars advocating for genocide.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pull My Finger View Post
    AAA games are garbage anyway.
    I highly disagree.

    Don't get how someone can call Horizon Zero Dawn garbage.
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  16. #16
    Most of the high cost of game dev for these big studios is due to a combination of marketing, huge development teams, and poor management. The last two are almost redundant because many AAA games have massive teams due to poor management. Certain studios are more efficient and can produce high quality games in the same time for less money. It just depends. But no, players are not under-charged. Yeah, game dev is more expensive, but there's also a lot more people playing videogames, more platforms to sell them on, and more people making them. But it's also kind of the job of these spineless corporate mouthpieces to spread nonsense like this in an attempt to gain more public favor for their shitty business models. Can't say I'm surprised, but as long as people keep falling for it, they're not going to stop.

  17. #17
    Banned gaymer77's Avatar
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    First off @Saninicus I hope you get infracted for this post.

    Secondly the reason why people didn't get fired over WoD is because contrary to opinion it wasn't a failure. Just because a lot of people didn't like the game doesn't mean that they didn't make money off it or that people didn't play it.

    The fact of the matter is companies rise and companies fall. Some of the most successful companies have went belly up over the years. The gaming industry is no different. These loot crates and DLC isn't going away any time soon and TBH I doubt they ever will. Just because YOU don't want them doesn't mean there isn't a market for them from other consumers. Smart companies offer to their potential customers something that will make them spend money. If that means putting out a game for $60 (which is a damn good price for the hours of entertainment you get from the game) and then charges for optional DLC, more power to them. They have employees to pay and a company to keep afloat. Nobody is forcing you to buy ANY game ANY company puts out nor are they forcing you to buy loot crates or DLC.

    Finally as others have pointed out to you, the amount of money that we pay for a game now compared to how much we paid back in the day is unbelievable. I remember going to the Kay B Toys with my mom to buy games for my NES back in the day and they would be like $25-45. Yeah sounds cheap but consider gas back then cost under $1 for a gallon. So if you want to do the math without crunching numbers you could think of it this way, the amount of money you paid for a game back then was enough to fill up your car 1-2 times (and compare that to how much it costs to fill up your car now twice because that's how much you'd be paying for a game now if prices kept going up with inflation). I agree with the author that you so openly mock because honestly, we're doing rather well on prices for games now even with all the microtransactions available.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pull My Finger View Post
    AAA games are garbage anyway.
    Compared to what, the -5/10 rated turds on the Steam garbage heap?

  19. #19
    All of EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Konami etc are reason why gaming is getting worse.

    While i understanding making AAA games got huge costs, but putting aggresive microtransactions like EA did with SWBF2 is not the way to return the production cost money. But saying like EA that they listen community is biggest insult right now, because they don't listen community as whole. They listen only people who agree with them.



    The issue is what EA defenders don't understand that problem is not much in lootboxes now, since look... HOTS got lootboxes, overwatch too and what? It is only cosmetic items like skins, sprays etc! The issue in SWBF2 microtransactions is pay 2 win because you might buy Darth Vader in no time. I understand no likes grinding, but progression system was changed by microtransactions.

    Also censoring negative opinions about SWBF2 says is something wrong, very wrong...
    Whatever...

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Krawu's Avatar
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    At this point, I actually don't think the gaming industry would suffer too much in the long term if all these giant publishers like EA, Ubisoft etc. went under due to their own greed and stupidity. Literally the only thing that gives their games an edge right now is graphics. For everything else there is an indie game that does it better. I've poured hundreds of hours into games that cost me 10 Euros, having a blast playing with my friends all the while.

    Would be great if the devs could once again decide how to make their game instead of some jackass investor like this one just trying desperately to squeeze every last cent from the consumer and players being used as beta or even alpha testers because a game had to somehow be ready for release in 11 months since there has to be another iteration of the same shit next year for them to drop 100 bucks plus MTX on.

    I don't see myself as a Nintendo fanboy but right now, they're pretty much the only large-ish publisher out there who won't try to milk you dry, and they develop most of their big hitters in-house or through 2nd party devs over 3 to 5 year development cycles, which is why their games get consistently good ratings and avoid most of the drama besetting other AAA titles.

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