Would you like GW2 more if it was upto lvl50 but had raids?

[NineSpine]

People are free to express any opinion; positive or negative about a game on these forums. It works both ways.

It's not really appropriate to ask someone "why are you posting here?" They are free & welcomed to do so. Same as you or anyone else.

Just don't break our rules, natch.

Baseless bashing in substantive threads *is* against the rules, whether you choose to enforce it or not, as it very clearly falls under "Making non-constructive posts". If you call my post non-constructive as well, that's fine, but the idea that conveying that you hate something (which you also post about currently playing) so much that it can never be redeemed is actually constructive is absurd. Constructive is "I don't think raids would solve X problem because of Z issue".

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 07:15 PM ----------

A-ha, that's what I should have said. Sums it up a lot easier.



You know, this is something that I think people need to make up their minds on. In one thread, "those other MMO's" are only about raiding, all there is to do is raiding, and people raid 24/7. In another thread, hardly anyone raids and it's a total waste of code.

I think you are missing the point. These are two different issues. Yes, hardly anyone raids, and yes some other games are all about raiding. One is about what people DO, and one is about what developers build the game around. Even if few people actually raid, WoW is clearly built on an endgame raiding model, and that's where (perhaps until now), the vast majority of the inter-expansion development goes.

[mafao]

You know, this is something that I think people need to make up their minds on. In one thread, "those other MMO's" are only about raiding, all there is to do is raiding, and people raid 24/7. In another thread, hardly anyone raids and it's a total waste of code.

Do you really believe that 9 million players raid? I would be very surprised if even 20% of WoWs population ever raided on a continuous basis. Most of MMO players are casuals who just don't have the time for progressive raiding. I think ANet does the right thing by focusing their time on what most player will benefit from. For a casual player, GW2 is undoubtedly a much better game, as it offers more interesting content without initiation requirements. And of course, PvP which is not based on gear farming. And yes, most PvP players are casuals (meaning, people who don't have hours and hours to play games).

On the other hand of course, its the raiders who made the game popular, because they are a very vocal group. That also has to be taken into consideration.

[Karizee]

Do you really believe that 9 million players raid? I would be very surprised if even 20% of WoWs population ever raided on a continuous basis.

It's actually less than 10% overall.

[Deleted]

I'd say yes, I'd have loved to have seen some raids, but it'd mean you have to cater to those specific roles, and GW2 has that "Anti Holy-Trinity" thing going on.

[Fencers]

Baseless bashing in substantive threads *is* against the rules

No, it's fine. People are free to not like a game. He doesn't need to write an essay on it. And we do allow leeway provided someone isn't raging/"hurdur game is fail" nonsense.

If you have an issue with moderation policy you are free to PM an admin. Please, don't pick arguments or bicker over someone expressing a negative point of view. Because that's totally fine here.

[Karizee]

Based on numbers you pulled off of a website that's not meant to be a census site, and then interpreted through your own bias.

According to this,

http://www.wowprogress.com/post/120_...aiding_results

it's less than 2% for the current tier. Now it is early in the season, granted. Still, looking at this and the numbers from the previous tiers tells you the population that raids is incredibly small.

[RoninaThorstone]

the population that raids is incredibly small.

And incredibly vocal.

[Morgaith]

Of course, there's is NO endgame atm, which is why i am waiting for more content.

[Karizee]

Even if you did go by that data...it's over 16% of all level 90's that have already killed at least one raid boss, not counting people that have tried getting raids together and failed. It also doesn't seem to be counting LFR, only normal mode, which is a tremendous chunk left off.

Of level 90s, which again are less than 10% of the playerbase.
The world bosses are comparable to LFR, gives you that big epic feel only better

[theredviola]

I hope they do as GW 1 faction did, make 2 "elite dungeons" that requires 12 palyers each, and it has to be so freaking hard that you can't complete it almost, and no repairing either, consumables are fine though, that i want, i don't want some damn boring raids.



I wish AC was a bit harder to be fair, most of the dungeons aren't that hard, ofcourse you will die a few times but yeah, none of the dungeons has been too diffucult yet and that is with PUG's.

I must have been with some real dumbasses then. I found it to be very challenging. Yeah, we died a few times, I expect that... but I just feel like no progress was made.

[Karizee]

A-ha! So now we come to the heart of it. Raiding is ok as long as it's easy enough?

For me it's more about the time commitment, guild politics and loot drama than the difficulty. I raided HC for years, not afraid of difficulty and in fact enjoy some of the harder world bosses & dungeons

[brickerz]

There's a lot of people in this thread who would otherwise claim "play how you want", except when it comes to raiding you treat it as though if you didn't do it someone would kill a family member. Raiding does not effect your game the same way dungeons do not effect a strict PvPer, the same way WvW does not effect an sPvPer, etc. ad nauseum. They've already made several MMORPG concessions, however it's already been discussed by their US team in Bellevue how "the whole game is endgame" was great in theory but isn't what they had hoped it would be in practice. That isn't an admission of failure, just a miscalculation of the community. It's a solid game that could have taken a few more queues from successful predecessors and created a great game. Whether that's raids or not is irrelevant, it's lacking that carrot on the stick that a lot of people seem to chase. I'm sure they'll figure it out, or at least stick to their choices and hope for the best. We'll see, it's always free after purchase so I'm sure people will be coming back when there are large patches and new announcements after the slump finishes.

[Karizee]

But there's no slump. They had to expand server capacity yet again this week, and just as fast the servers are filling up again.
The game is wildly successful, still topping charts, the realms are packed with people. Why have the developers tie up resources for something that's clearly not needed by the majority of players?

Seriously, if you want to raid, play a game that offers raiding like WoW or Rift.

Also, no one is saying you cannot play the game how you want, they are just pointing out you are asking to play the game how it was not designed. Kinda like going to a Chinese restaurant and ordering a cheeseburger.

[Sunseeker]

But there's no slump. They had to expand server capacity yet again this week, and just as fast the servers are filling up again.
The game is wildly successful, still topping charts, the realms are packed with people. Why have the developers tie up resources for something that's clearly not needed by the majority of players?

Seriously, if you want to raid, play a game that offers raiding like WoW or Rift.

Also, no one is saying you cannot play the game how you want, they are just pointing out you are asking to play the game how it was not designed. Kinda like going to a Chinese restaurant and ordering a cheeseburger.

Considering that almost every zone has some 30+ bots running around in it, I question how many people are actually filling up these servers.

[Deleted]

No, it's good exactly as it is and i hope Anet will keep it that way.

[Karizee]

Considering that almost every zone has some 30+ bots running around in it, I question how many people are actually filling up these servers.

Yup, you're right. No players, just bots.
But who do these bots sell their items & gold to? Why the other bots of course!
It's the Giganticus Ouroboros, the snake that eats its own tail and it lives beneath the bay in Lion's Arch.

[mafao]

Well yeah. Kinda part of why your attempt at quoting statistics based on information taken right after an expansion dropped and people aren't even leveled yet is kinda silly

Actually you yourself prove what we are saying. Only more dedicated players would level to 90 by now (after over 2 weeks!), and even of those dedicated players only 16% actually raided. Now try to extrapolate this further.

BTW, when I was playing WoW, neither me nor any people I knew in-game were raiding. For each raiding guild there were over 10 casual/pvp ones. Of course, an official statistics would be nice, but I believe it is entirely possible to get a reasonable estimate. I stand by my pervious at most 20% statement

[Hraklea]

Few people, skill intense challenges (dungeons) > Lots of people, coordination intense challenges (raids), in my opinion.

GW2 is fine. And as I said in several threads before, if you need a PvE challenge, try to complete all explore modes without anyone on your group dying. Not that easy, at least for me.

[Gray_Matter]

however it's already been discussed by their US team in Bellevue how "the whole game is endgame" was great in theory but isn't what they had hoped it would be in practice. That isn't an admission of failure, just a miscalculation of the community. It's a solid game that could have taken a few more queues from successful predecessors and created a great game. Whether that's raids or not is irrelevant, it's lacking that carrot on the stick that a lot of people seem to chase.

I haven't seen that post/thread/etc. Regardless, my question is this. Is that the game community or just the vocal minority that finds it's way onto forums? I personally know about 12 people or so who are playing GW2 and not 1 is level 80 (highest is now 79). The thing is, there is a whole bunch of people on the forums screaming about content, end-game, etc. It seems like the people who play the game more intensely (minority) are the ones that come to the forums and not the majority of casual players.

---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 02:15 PM ----------

A-ha! So now we come to the heart of it. Raiding is ok as long as it's easy enough?

Talk about putting words into someone's mouth. You don't know how the poster equated LFR to world bosses, you just immediately jumped to your own conclusion.

IMHO, a world boss is far more accessible content (it's not about being easier) in much the same way that LFR is accessible. Casual players don't need to form up a group to go to LFR. Raiding requires organisation to setup and the carrot (loot) is the reward for getting it right.

[brickerz]

I haven't seen that post/thread/etc. Regardless, my question is this. Is that the game community or just the vocal minority that finds it's way onto forums? I personally know about 12 people or so who are playing GW2 and not 1 is level 80 (highest is now 79). The thing is, there is a whole bunch of people on the forums screaming about content, end-game, etc. It seems like the people who play the game more intensely (minority) are the ones that come to the forums and not the majority of casual players.

You won't see that anywhere, at least not anytime soon if I had to hazard a guess. My former grad-school roommate is currently working for them and plays as well, we talk regularly but nothing too in depth. I only get tidbits, which is better than the valve employed friend, won't even get me a picture of IceFrog [Which is cause for me to seriously consider our prolonged friendship.] As I said though, the discussion from his point of view was that they didn't fail but merely didn't account for the depth of outcry for more. I'm not sure where they're going with it, and I likely wouldn't even hear about it if they made a big decision for or against having an actual end-game.

But there's no slump. They had to expand server capacity yet again this week, and just as fast the servers are filling up again.
The game is wildly successful, still topping charts, the realms are packed with people. Why have the developers tie up resources for something that's clearly not needed by the majority of players?

Seriously, if you want to raid, play a game that offers raiding like WoW or Rift.

Also, no one is saying you cannot play the game how you want, they are just pointing out you are asking to play the game how it was not designed. Kinda like going to a Chinese restaurant and ordering a cheeseburger.

The MMO Slump happens at different intervals for different games. GW2 has a different sliding scale because of the buy2play and no subscription. If we're going by total hours played by all users versus total players logged in (excluding bots) you would likely see a slight dip. ANet also made a great decision in launching when they did. The slump is typically in the range of 3 months after release. ANet released ~4 months before holiday, meaning that if there was the typical 3 month slump, it would be harder to detect due to holiday sales. This could easily extend the "slump" period to 6 months for noticeable decline. They've also not taken a hard-line publicly on raiding or additional/increased PvE content. Not only that, but you lack a distinct and nearing ignorant point of understanding software development. With software this massive, your teams are broken up into specific roles. Do they need the number of developers working as they had pre-launch? Absolutely not. They're not in a release development cycle anymore. They likely have a smaller team dedicated to maintaining, another broken off for additional content, and more into smaller units for the different pieces of the game that exist not to mention a team likely either starting exploration and discovery or already working on expansion content. That same argument has been used millions of times on WoW forums as well, and it's just as asinine there as yours is here. The only thing you have any hope of clinging to that would be valid is your opinion that it doesn't need it, which is just that, an opinion. Please stop stating it like it is fact.