Would you like GW2 more if it was upto lvl50 but had raids?

[Underwolf]

I like it the way it is with tons of exploration in a massive world. But that's me of course. I like things like exploration, crafting, etc. I did lots of raiding in the past and I enjoyed them. But, I am enjoying GW2 without raids. When I had reached max level in GW2, I had completed less than half of what the game has been offering.

[Window]

Atm im looking forward to the halloween event and the unspoken content releases in november
more endgame content will always be a bonus, raiding may be okay but I can live without it

[Zilong]

From Level 1 to 80....not only the later ones

I don't think so. Thru 1 to 70 the only true zergs were like...the centaur chain in one of the maps and some others. The real problem begins after 70 for me.
And I think that since you are just passing thru most of the zones while leveling, the scenery, the people you do it with, the reason why you are doing it it's varied enough. But after 70....I can't say the same.

To be honest I dislike the idea of raids because I don't want schedules, but I wouldn't mind a bigger dungeon group that can be made on the spot.

As I said...I do not wish raids, but I do think that much of the content after 70 is iffy. Doing some of the events in a group of 3-5 is awesome, no AoE spammers, doing it carefully, I would say even the difficulty seems right. But that's very inefficient karma wise or in a few mins you will be seeing a horde of AoE spammers going for the event, some just to tag it, other to spam AoE untill the loots bleed (Which no like get's you frustrated because you can't hit before they do).

So, yeah..I'm simply enjoying other stuff while I wait for a better "response" on this. But I am afraid they won't change it, and that cuts the gw2 longevity for me in a good bunch.

[mafao]

The reason why I got interested in the game is that it has no raids in the first place. The whole idea of progression raiding is just against the spirit of GW2.

[Zoneseek]

I hate raiding so absolutely not.

[Zeek Daniels]

i know alot of ppl in this thread are stuck in the WoW mindset of raiding. And it doesnt have to be that way. Their isnt any gear progression in GW2 so it wouldnt be progression raiding. Like Artorias said, having multiple dynamic event chains like ones leading up to the shatterer but have to be done at the same time and by separate groups i think would really work. We already have Meta events. Those are raids but just unorganized. All Anet has to do is take that concept and mesh it with a storymode dungeon. Have them be for 10-15 players and boom you have your Mini Meta Event maps that can be done by guilds for more gear skins.

This doesnt have to be a bad thing guys. Just give it some thought. The basis for it is already ingame.

[arukas]

i know alot of ppl in this thread are stuck in the WoW mindset of raiding. And it doesnt have to be that way. Their isnt any gear progression in GW2 so it wouldnt be progression raiding. Like Artorias said, having multiple dynamic event chains like ones leading up to the shatterer but have to be done at the same time and by separate groups i think would really work. We already have Meta events. Those are raids but just unorganized. All Anet has to do is take that concept and mesh it with a storymode dungeon. Have them be for 10-15 players and boom you have your Mini Meta Event maps that can be done by guilds for more gear skins.

This doesnt have to be a bad thing guys. Just give it some thought. The basis for it is already ingame.

Fully agree with this. I actually would like to see some content for bigger groups (10-15 people). Some sort of dungeons but only for more players where we could farm some skins like what we do know with the current dungeons.

[MrSerious]

What you need to think of is not Raiding in WoW. Raiding can be added to GW2 because its already in the game its just outdoors. All they have to do is design a map, add a story to it, and put Meta events all over it and say this is a 10 or 15 man dungeon. That is a raid. You dont need to fight trash > boss > trash > boss > etc like you do in WoW.

you may have a point. They certainly would require a lot of tuning to get it right, and a lot of effort to do it well. They have this in a 5man, why do you need it in at a larger scale since raids around basically outdoor.

Take for example the outdoor raid in the sylvari starting zone. here you defend a village, then search the swamp, clear the corruption which finally leads you to the source. Chain events that lead up to a major fight. Is this not what you want? Do you really need to be tied down with finding 15-20 people, organising a raid, finally the right types of classes to complete the challenge? It was a headache for most the guilds I was in during my time in WoW, not sure its required in GW2.

[Zeek Daniels]

you may have a point. They certainly would require a lot of tuning to get it right, and a lot of effort to do it well. They have this in a 5man, why do you need it in at a larger scale since raids around basically outdoor.

Because its optional content. Gw2 builds different content for different types of players and does not force you to do things you dont want to do. If there are ppl that like larger organized groups for doing dungeons then this is a way to accommodate that playstyle.

[Zilong]

you may have a point. They certainly would require a lot of tuning to get it right, and a lot of effort to do it well. They have this in a 5man, why do you need it in at a larger scale since raids around basically outdoor.

Take for example the outdoor raid in the sylvari starting zone. here you defend a village, then search the swamp, clear the corruption which finally leads you to the source. Chain events that lead up to a major fight. Is this not what you want? Do you really need to be tied down with finding 15-20 people, organising a raid, finally the right types of classes to complete the challenge? It was a headache for most the guilds I was in during my time in WoW, not sure its required in GW2.

It's not even about providing different optional content as put by Zeek Daniels. It's just that I DO NOT think that what we have outside is an outdoor raid, simply because it needs more tuning. Sure the concept of it is somewhat equal but in practice in-game you do not see it. Because big good chains are destroyed by the horde of AoE spammers, or not even, just 50 people pressing 1. The most fun events were the ones I managed to duo, there is one of the dredge conquering some cities in a snowy map. Boy that was fun doing duo, kinda challenging! But those were done in non-rush hours, on rush hours there were so many ppl that it's kinda like a 100 bulls running over a small family.

As I said before either tune up the events, spread them around, make more maps or whatever it takes to actually make "raids outdoor" or make indoor instanced "raids" that doesn't have OR SHOULDNT NEED to be like wow (in the progression sense, scheduled sense and the thrash>boss repetitive sense).

[MrSerious]

As I said before either tune up the events, spread them around, make more maps or whatever it takes to actually make "raids outdoor" or make indoor instanced "raids" that doesn't have OR SHOULDNT NEED to be like wow (in the progression sense, scheduled sense and the thrash>boss repetitive sense).

I certainly agree with you in terms of tuning DE's. In the high level zones DE's which are off the path of the zerg group (people should know what I'm talking about) are very hard to complete, when in a smaller group they are a challenge and fun, by yourself they are near impossible, and in a zerg they are mindlessly easy.

A better dynamic scaling method is needed. It may upset the zerg if their romp through the Straits of DEvastation is ramped up so much as to slow them down.

The issue I found with raids is a felt locked in for an evening if I decided to join on, I like the freedom this game gives you. I can leave whenever I want. WoW raids were a freakign nightmare, "hold on just need to let the cat out", "brb I need to take this call"... 15 minutes later we manage to start it.

[parcus]

It's not even about providing different optional content as put by Zeek Daniels. It's just that I DO NOT think that what we have outside is an outdoor raid, simply because it needs more tuning. Sure the concept of it is somewhat equal but in practice in-game you do not see it. Because big good chains are destroyed by the horde of AoE spammers, or not even, just 50 people pressing 1. The most fun events were the ones I managed to duo, there is one of the dredge conquering some cities in a snowy map. Boy that was fun doing duo, kinda challenging! But those were done in non-rush hours, on rush hours there were so many ppl that it's kinda like a 100 bulls running over a small family.

As I said before either tune up the events, spread them around, make more maps or whatever it takes to actually make "raids outdoor" or make indoor instanced "raids" that doesn't have OR SHOULDNT NEED to be like wow (in the progression sense, scheduled sense and the thrash>boss repetitive sense).

For some events that is true, for others it is not. For example, in the starting asura area, there was an escort quest I did the day after the game launched, I can tell you that a whole army of panthers spawned on top of me and beat me up really badly, despite the large amount of people around. Another example: in the temple of balthazar, that boss killed like 20 people in a single hit, not to mention the amount of time he stayed alive considering there were 50+ people around him. His health clearly scaled up. In the gwayna temple, me and 4 more people killed the boss at a significantly faster pace than those 50 people on top of balthazar (maybe it's always easier, maybe not, I don't know).

To be honest in important events I haven't had much trouble with tuning, I think they did a fairly good job at it. The events people can faceroll are generally meaningless.

But back on topic: I've had the most fun in this game in lvl 70+ areas, so no, I would not have liked it at all if the game stopped at level 50 and gave me a raid instead. I can see myself enjoying a raid in gw 2 if: the scale of the raid is 25+ people (preferably more)/ the focus is on making interesting mechanics and logistics, not on DPS/healing requirements (less of a problem in gw because auto-attack generally does the damage*)/ don't have any unforgiving mechanics like the ones dungeons have (they should still wipe, but not if the strategy is right).

*I once posted in the WoW forums that wow should work more like this and get rid of complex rotations, because this adds frustration to raid groups due to them not being able to find people who can do enough healing/dps (and this makes blizzard shrinks the raid size for accessibility => leads to raid with less interesting mechanics/ logistics). But got called a troll, shrug.

[Cobaltius]

As bad as the GW2 dungeons are now, the very thought of joining a GW2 raid would never even cross my mind.

[Deleted]

No. I don't want raids. Never again. If they're too hard and epic, as they're supposed to be, then only a very small percentage of ppl will be able to enjoy them and I'll have to get a guild, get serious, read, prepare, no I don't want that. If they'd be too easy, then it'll be same boring as usual dungeons.

[RoninaThorstone]

raids.

The people who are over the moon about them are very loud.

[DSRilk]

I don't see how raiding is any different than anything else in terms of end-game. With raids, you get to 80 and then do the same thing over and over. Without raids, you get to 80 and do the same thing over and over.

Of course the reality is that in GW2, at least for me, I don't do ANYTHING over and over. I got to 80 pretty easily - no grinding at all. Just going from story point to story point. When I was done, there were TONS of areas I still hadn't seen yet. And with down ranking, even visiting lower level areas is still fun. Additionally, there are roughly 3 low level plot lines for each race and another 3 (regardless of race) for the mid-tier plots. Add to that many of the quest points require you to choose X or Y and I've got tons more to experience. I'd so much rather do more and more story-related quests and a lot more exploration than to be stuck in the grind that is raiding.

One of the benefits of GW2 as I see it is that while there are levels, there might as well not be. No matter what level I am, when I wander into a zone, it's "level appropriate". The "end game" is GW2 is simply playing and experiencing things you haven't seen or done yet.

[DSRilk]

In a game where "that's optional!" seems to be what people say about...well, everything...people sure do seem bound by the idea that A.Net would put a gun to their head and force them to do things.

They wouldn't force you to do them. They'd force you to wait longer for content that interests you because a bunch of the developers that could be creating new material of a kind you like would instead be creating something you have no interest in. If there was a parity between the players that raided vs. those that don't (especially in the GW2 crowd), it would be different as regardless of which path they took they'd be working for the same percentage of their player base. However, that's just not the case in this scenario.

---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 07:31 PM ----------

Not strictly true, there's an extremely hard cap on what level zone you can be in any any given level. You wander into a level 50 zone at level 40 and the mobs are basically flagged as immune to you, it's kinda funny. It's not like, "Oh, the mob is really tough." it's "The mob is artificially buffed to be completely invincible to you and kill you in one hit."

But otherwise, I know what you're saying.

Yes, I meant down ranking, not trying to go upward into zones beyond you. Ah, the joy it would bring if levels simply went away and you just got talent and skill points. Then anyone could wander anywhere at any time...

[Clockwork Pinkie]

I could not possibly think of a way I'd like it more but, sure, why not. Don't really care about levels, it all gos together and works well, no matter what number is next to your character. Raids would of been a nice touch. But I still love the overall product I got to death.

[Deleted]

not raids, but maybe random instanced DEs (-chains) for 10-20 people that require a little bit more coordination than the usual Zergfest (you lag, you lose)

[Lenn]

Quite a few people have said that they do not like the GW2 endgame. My flatmate and I played it too and we both felt that as you keep going up in levels the whole thing really feel very grindy and no raids means the 'lack of preferred endgame' causes a lot of people to stop logging in.

We both thought that if they had kept the level cap to 50-60 and spent the rest of dev time in making a couple of raids, the game would have catered to a wider variety. Nothing against people who enjoy the current end game. it's just we both agreed that 80 is a tad too much for release. Mind you, I stopped playing but my flatmate still loves GW2 and even he thought it would have been better for the game to go to 50 and have raids instead of 80.

What do you reckon?

This is almost completely against the philosophy of their design from what I understand. This is like asking should they have made Guild Wars 2 into a significantly different type of game. I see a lot of talking about "lack of end game" in these forums, and I think a lot of it is due to framing Guild Wars 2 as something akin to MMOs like WoW then analyzing its "endgame" in this mismatched framework.

The way I understood their design philosophy is, level really doesn't matter, and in fact their origin design had levels entirely attached to zones so there was up-leveling. They decided to abandon up-leveling to not alienate traditional MMO'ers (my jargon, having been a long time WoW-type MMO player) who might not care about design philosophy and what not while still preserving the horizontal-ness of progression. They've essentially replaced raids by DE chains in terms of large scale "organized" (that's a loose word) battles. And the role of raids, well that's just the rest of the world. I've seen people say that what you've always been doing when leveling is the end game, and I largely agree with this and I think ANet would to with regards to PvE (Though I'm sure they won't like the simplification). They've acknowledged that they wanted people to go out to the world and do what they enjoyed instead of being funneled into the same content and in doing so not be punished for it. Whether they've designed an appealing enough world or whether people are funneled is up to you to decide.

Honestly I think if your mate is of that mentality then this is fundamentally the wrong kind of game for him. I know if I ever wanted to raid again I would buy MoP in a heartbeat.