Would you like GW2 more if it was upto lvl50 but had raids?

[Deleted]

There's a reason you don't see boxing matches where a heavyweight champion ties one arm behind his back and fights some 92-pound dude that's never boxed before. Or why you see olympic runners competing against each other, not shooting themselves in the foot and then running against a field of fat dudes.

Because they see sports as a job rather than a fun challenge?

[Deleted]

No, stop trying to use the same reference model for comparing how successful a MMORPG is. Not all games should be WoW clones, or to follow the exact model.

For me and my friends the game is perfect... huge world, a lot of quests to do, a lot of secret areas, jumping puzzles, events and 5 men dungeons.

If I get bored , I don't play it anymore for some time... after all I'm not paying a monthly fee for it. Also I'm not looking for a second job in a game, and I hate it that WoW implemented the idea of playing on a daily basis (dailies) to stay competitive.

After playing GW2, I can't stand the WoW gameplay/model anymore. I tried MOP but it's as bad as Cataclysm was. Don't take me wrong, I had a good time playing WoW in the past and I somehow still love the "brand" but for some reason I can't enjoy it anymore. I can't wait till January when I will be able to cancel my WoW subscription (atm being stuck in it by the annual pass agreement).

[Hraklea]

There's a reason you don't see boxing matches where a heavyweight champion ties one arm behind his back and fights some 92-pound dude that's never boxed before. Or why you see olympic runners competing against each other, not shooting themselves in the foot and then running against a field of fat dudes.

I'm pretty sure you are aware that "raids" are PvE activities and olympic sports are PvP activities. And I refuse to believe you can't see the different between running a dungeon with 4 players and shooting yourself in the foot.

But if you actually don't see that difference, please, shoot yourself in the foot. I beg you.

[Bugg]

No.
because I got no time for raids. I need a pretty casual game where I can lose myself for 1-2 hours whenever I feel the need to.

[rhandric]

-snipped for brevity, qq stuff is too easy-

I say set it all back to BWE1 difficulty

[Hraklea]

The point is that I shouldn't have to play dumber, not use all my abilities, or purposefully handicap myself in order to be challenged. Hell, you could reason that everything in the game is a supreme challenge if you just invent hoops to jump though. Sure, every single fight against a normal mob could be a challenge....if you force yourself to kite it all the way to Goemm's Lab before you kill it!!

Why not? Why is it so bad to set your own goals?

Taking WoW, for example. When I used to play, there was an achievement called "the Undying" or something like that if you ran full Naxxramas without wipes. For some reason, the only raid that I ever saw people carrying about a full ran without wipes was Naxxramas. Why? Because there's an achievement, baby!!!

Why Blizzard saying "you did it!" is so more important than you saying to yourself "I did it!"?

I'm not saying that is your case, but there is this general rule that everything that can be challengeful, but it is not an official achievement, is not a valid challenge and only stupid people would try it. Why is that?

I'm not saying that you should try to kite mobs all the way in Goemm's Lab, I'm talking about actual fun challenges.

You could make up all sorts of ways to handicap yourself in order to give the developers a pass on doing their job, but that's not why we pay them to make games.

No, you can't, because some games are too hard or too easy to able you to create those handicaps. For instance, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PSX/Sega Saturn) requires you a retarded amount of "self nerfs" to be a challenging game, way more than running a GW2 dungeon with 4 people...

[Shoridayo]

I'd like Guild Wars 2 more if it was fun.

Got really boring around level 20.

[Hraklea]

As for the achievement system and people wanting to do it because the game says so...hell, I dunno. We could get into psychology and whatnot to discuss why people want to collect silly achievements or get 100% map completion or any number of other "Game-Provided" goals. Prolly won't help us, though. =D

Of course it would help, that's the main point of the discussion. Why do you consider increasing the game difficulty by yourself as "being slack" and "it is not my job" but it's ok if the game does it for you?

I said "people" because I know you're not the only one with that position, and GW2 is not the only "victim". For instance, everytime someone says Resident Evil 5 is too easy, I suggest them trying to play without using all items that the zombies drops. Everybody reacts like you, "it is not my job to make the game challengeful". But 99% of the Resident Evil players I know played RE1~3 without using sprays because you get an "A rank"/"A grade" at the end of the game. Why those things are different? Back to our subject... why running a WoW raid with 8 players is a valid challenge and running a GW2 dungeon with 4 man is unnaceptable?

Ultimately the player is just going to say, "I can keep twisting myself in knots to make the game seem better, or I can just go play a better game."

I agree, but GW2 dungeons without deaths with 4 players are more fun than other massives dungeons/raid (meaning WoW, Rift and SWtOR) for me.

What I'm saying it is wrong is your idea that "hey, here's a flaw I can abuse and make the game not fun, but it is not my job to stop abusing the flaws of the game, so this game sucks!!!".
It's like saying that "it is not my job not to use cheats, so if a game has an infinite HP cheat, I'm supposed to use it, therefore, the game sucks!". If you can make your own rules to make the game fun, the game is fun. And no, this doesn't apply to all games, as I already mentioned one example.

[Karizee]

I think he needs to complete the achievements within the game first before complaining there's no challenge ;-)

Got that Dungeon Master title yet?

[Hraklea]

You're not handicapping yourself or playing poorly to try to make things tougher on yourself, you're trying to do it flawlessly.

I might be wrong here, as I don't play WoW anymore... but I'm pretty sure you can't die and be battle ress'ed by a druid and still get the Undying achievement. "Not using Battle Ress" sounds like a self handicap to me.

[Gray_Matter]

But, really, that's not the players' job. You could make up all sorts of ways to handicap yourself in order to give the developers a pass on doing their job, but that's not why we pay them to make games.

The range of players in the game is huge. From 8 year olds through to 60 year olds. The skill compliment associated with the players is also quite varied. The developers try and create content to suit the whole base. It's not easy at all. In the beginning, people were complaining that explorer mode was too tough, now it's too easy. They can't just go an create content for the 1% of people who want it super tough. That will take away from the other 99% of players so there is nothing wrong with suggesting that players make things a little bit tougher for themselves if they want some challenge.

[Karizee]

Dunno why you're always harping on that title. Terribly sorry that I - any many others, by the sound of it - don't want to subject myself to any more of the buggy, shoddily designed messes that pass for instanced content in this game.

Why? Because I see too many people on this forum complain about the game being too easy and have yet to complete the dungeons.

There are Dungeon Masters in the game, it's not an impossible feat but you won't get it by waltzing in and doing a WoW rotation. Or by spamming auto attack which you are very fond of saying that's all you need to do in the game.

And if you don't like the way dungeons are designed in GW2, what makes you think you'll like the raids any better?

Really, give it a rest.

[Karizee]

No, you'll complete them by waltzing in and kiting around for a while, staring at your own butt while the camera acts goofy, and then flipping tables when you run into one of the many awfully tuned, bugged, or horribly designed encounters that aren't even hard, just broken.

Do it then. I dare you.

[Fencers]

Aren't all the dungeons relatively the same difficulty overall?

Think I need a couple from that Norn one [nobody runs it], a COE path and that one with robots left. So like 5 paths or whatever. I may be wrong but isn't that Dungeon Master title in GW2 just for doing all the paths + story mode?

So it's not really anything special you'd have to do so much as run them all. Which are all basically the same...

I am not sure what the achievement or asking for it would prove exactly. It's like saying "show me your 100%!", all you'd have to do is simply go everywhere on the map. No extra effort is involved.

It's not like Ultimate Dungeon Hero, Conqueror or Yogg-0. All which involve unusual tactics or assembly.

Not much of an achievement chaser in GW2. But am not aware there is anything that needs to be done but complete each path for that DM title.

[MrSerious]

Dunno why you're always harping on that title. Terribly sorry that I - any many others, by the sound of it - don't want to subject myself to any more of the buggy, shoddily designed messes that pass for instanced content in this game.

you should really ask for your money back. Because we have to subject ourselves to shoddy messy posts that attempt to pass for constructive feedback from you. You're obviously very upset about the game, and it effects you to the point you need to spam the forum with negative posts. Perhaps you should step away with anything GW2 related and go play something you enjoy. There must be some game you like.

[Nario64]

I'll admit firstly that I read the first page of posts and this page but that's all, so if this has been said then my bad.

I raided in WoW for years, loved it, but it changed enough to not be desirable anymore. With that my guild tried star wars but that didn't last long. I don't game much anymore but I did pick up GW2. I actually had a lot of fun up until about level 30. I have a 50 guardian but that's as far as I've gotten.

I love dungeons, and I love the little trap room and puzzles inside of them that GW2 has. The one big problem for me is the inability to dedicate tank or heal. If there were endgame raids then they'd have to fix that. I became fustrated in dungeons so first I decked myself out in Toughness, health and power gear/tallents to try to tank but there is no way that I found to hold threat. So instead I switched to heals, mostly using a staff and using my epic heal spellbook power as often as needed but still, it was moot.

Unless I missed something or something's changed in the last month, I don't see how raids are even possible without healers and tanks.

[Hraklea]

Terribly sorry that I - any many others, by the sound of it - don't want to subject myself to any more of the buggy, shoddily designed messes that pass for instanced content in this game.

I guess I'm playing a different GW2 than you, so... seeya.

[Gray_Matter]

No, you'll complete them by waltzing in and kiting around for a while, staring at your own butt while the camera acts goofy, and then flipping tables when you run into one of the many awfully tuned, bugged, or horribly designed encounters that aren't even hard, just broken.

We get it, you don't like the game. Why are you here again?

The thing is, you are complaining for no reason other than to complain. You are not trying to make the game better. Almost every post is a dig at something. Perhaps you are just playing devils advocate, I don't know, but I can tell you this, I stopped playing WOW and you won't find me hanging around in the WOW sub forums slamming the game every chance I get. I have moved on, perhaps you need to do the same. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion but what you are doing makes absolutely no sense to a normal person. It's almost like you want to see GW2 fail.

Of course GW2 has flaws, so does WOW and any other software application or game. Some of what you call flaws are design decisions but regardless, if we want bug free code, the cost will go up significantly. Just look at NASA (http://www.slideshare.net/Siddhi/intro-to-agile). They have had something like 15 defects over the last 11 versions of their space shuttle code. The cost of every line of code is estimated at $850. The point is, yes, they could have thrown a ton more developers at GW2 but the game would have cost $250 per copy. That would be a waste because no one would buy it. Games will have bugs, it's how they deal with those bugs that matters and I don't think they are doing a particularly terrible job at the moment. Some DE's are bugged (I have seen about 5 so far at level 62) and the level of difficulty is not always right. Those will get better over time. These things take some time to sort out. I don't think it's perfect and would like to see some things changed but I would also rather they focus on fixing the bugs first and then make design or mechanic changes. I would also like to see some of the bigger events requiring a more organised team to kill perhaps with an achievement or gem reward but that would have to be instanced because otherwise it would almost always be a wipe with the normal player population. I actually had a blast of a time taking back a small town yesterday at the north end of Sparkfly Fen. It was just me an a Mesmer. He would defend and I was using the cannons and helping out in between. On my own I didn't stand a chance and a big group is a walk over but with 2 it was a challenge and a load of fun.

[Midgjitsu]

I have never played GW2 I would be happy if they came out with a trial package to see if I wanna play it a friend of mine plays it and says the game is amazing but I wanna try before I buy so I voted No cause raiding isn't everything it's cracked up tobe alot of people don't have timne for raiding either it seems hence why WoW came out with the LFR tool for the casual raiders

[Deleted]

I´m happy there are no raid and this was a big selling point for me

gw2 is no pve game - pve is just to have it ingame^^