Why do the Republicans want to take away a woman's right to control her own body?

[Spectral]

I've personally never used any of those to describe myself. I prefer to avoid such labels, since they come off as too restrictive IMO. I don't think abortion should be a means of birth control, but I also am not against it in a life-and-death situation or even rape/incest. I just think it should be more restrictive. If there are no medical or psychological (rape/incest) threats to mother/(unborn)child, then I don't think abortion should come into play.

So, it's not so much the terminating an embryo you have a problem with, it's that you feel people are insufficiently punished for birth control failure if they use abortion.

[Elegiac]

Visualising that avatar as a lump... awwww ^_^

I'm Lightning Farron irl. True story.

[Agnar]

Yes, and the medical costs are factored into that. But what right do you have to demand what price others pay for a perfectly natural human activity?

Unjustified murder isn't a perfectly natural human activity. The taking of life is never "natural".

[Laize]

Men get higher pay,

The difference is less than 5%. Less than 3% if I remember correctly, actually. If you normalize for hours worked and type of job.

more social respect,

I don't believe that for a second. Both genders are biased against in social spheres.

more seats in government, etc

Yes because there are more men in the country than women and we're to blame for democratic processes.

Give women a privilege for once.

This is not a game. You're talking about leaving a guy on the hook for 18 years for a kid he doesn't even want. It's not about privilege.

[Anowyn]

Abortion will never go away no matter who is in control its just a scare tactic.

I agree entirely. For the most part, it isn't even a real issue, political parties just make a play on it to get votes. It's not going anywhere. The only thing that might possibly happen is some circumstances surrounding it might change -- and even that depends on many factors.

[Tikaru]

Ah, the potential argument. It's not a person, but it could be! Taking this logic to its obvious conclusion, anyone using any form of birth control is deeply immoral for preventing many lives from happening.

Your sperm are not in the process of becoming a human being. They're sperm just swimming around in your jelly beans.

Your egg is not in the process of becoming a human. It's hanging out until it can get the chance to be fertilized, and if it doesn't, it's evicted.

An embryo on the other hand...

[ewhenn]

A parasite does not have the potential to become a sentient being and unless it is a situation concerning rape then it wasn't against someone's will. Two people made the choice to engage in behavior that had the potential to end in a child. If they were not prepared for that possibility then maybe they should have kept their close on.

Parasite: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

You have a right to your own body, if you don't wish to allow it to support another being in a parasitic relationship, that's your choice. Your bodily fluids belong to you.

Take the fetus (which by definition IS a parasite) out, whole. If it survives on it's own, great. If not, oh well.

[Vhoosh]

Unjustified murder isn't a perfectly natural human activity. The taking of life is never "natural".

Abortion isn't murder until after a certain point...

[Kasierith]

Unjustified murder isn't a perfectly natural human activity. The taking of life is never "natural".

Sex is a natural human activity. If it weren't, our race probably wouldn't be around.

[Laize]

It should suffice to tie such the father's timeframe to the legally permissible time limits on abortion (with reasonable alloowances for setting things up).

EDIT:actually I misunderstood that, well it's such a theoretical subject I'm sure better minds would have worked out better legal frameworks for it if it ever comes to pass.

That's why I suggested 3 months from being informed or 3 months before the due date. Whichever provided the greater time frame. It wouldn't exactly be fair for a guy to let the girl know the week before her due date. Nor would it be fair for the girl to let the guy know a week before her due date. I think 3 months is a great compromise.

[Pud'n]

But you did not make any exceptions for a woman who is emotionally unprepared to give birth and raise a baby, or to give her own flesh and blood away. Why this inconsistency?

There's a vast difference between a an emotionally unprepared woman who screwed up her own life, and another who's pregnancy came about as a result of rape. The former is more treatable with the right amount of help from Planned Parenthood and other organizations, the other is much less so and significantly more likely to result in major depression and suicide on the mother's part.

[Crackalackin]

An embryo isn't a child. They're not the same, at all. Why should anyone entertain an intellectually serious argument with you when you aren't even able to make it through the first sentence of such an argument without a huge mistruth?

Would it assuage your nonexistant morality if I added the word unborn before the word child? I know you would support the murder anyways but I suppose it is only fair to give you the right to argue that the fact that it hasn't exited it's mother vagina means ending it's life is ok.

[semaphore]

Unjustified murder isn't a perfectly natural human activity. The taking of life is never "natural".

This is going into a cycle of regurgitating pointless rhetorics. You're talking to people who do not share your views on what constitutes life. Talking past each other's ears can't be that fruitful.

[Khelek]

Fine, take the fetus out, if it can survive on it's own, great. If not, oh well, parasites die when separated from their host.

So again what happens when the science is good enough to keep a fetus alive from the very start? If they start being counted a beings with rights, that would make every abortion previously performed into murder.

It's only logical to consider life from the moment of conception to be a valid first stage of life, because the science will get there eventually.

[Elegiac]

The difference is less than 5%. Less than 3% if I remember correctly, actually. If you normalize for hours worked and type of job.

The fact that there is a difference at all is repugnant.

I don't believe that for a second. Both genders are biased against in social spheres.

Women are more biased against. You are obviously a man.

Yes because there are more men in the country than women and we're to blame for democratic processes.

Bullshit. Women make up about 50% of the population at the very least.

This is not a game. You're talking about leaving a guy on the hook for 18 years for a kid he doesn't even want. It's not about privilege.

I'm more concerned with the threat to the mother's right to bodily autonomy then men bitching about child support payments. Even though I do agree with you.

[Matchu]

Would it assuage your nonexistant morality if I added the word unborn before the word child? I know you would support the murder anyways but I suppose it is only fair to give you the right to argue that the fact that it hasn't exited it's mother vagina means ending it's life is ok.

More, the fact it isn't a 'child'.

It's only logical to consider life from the moment of conception to be a valid first stage of life, because the science will get there eventually.

That's not logical; that's just an opinion.

[obdigore]

So again what happens when the science is good enough to keep a fetus alive from the very start? If they start being counted a beings with rights, that would make every abortion previously performed into murder.

It's only logical to consider life from the moment of conception to be a valid first stage of life, because the science will get there eventually.

No, that isn't 'logical'. I don't think you understand what the word 'logical' means.

[Tikaru]

So, it's not so much the terminating an embryo you have a problem with, it's that you feel people are insufficiently punished for birth control failure if they use abortion.

It's a punishment in the same sense getting wet is a punishment for sitting next to a pool.

When you have sex, protected or not, you run the risk of getting pregnant. It's how reproduction works for us.

[Elegiac]

Unjustified murder isn't a perfectly natural human activity. The taking of life is never "natural".

I beg to differ. Up until very recently historically speaking infanticide was a relatively commonplace practice. In fact, before sedentary society developed infanticide was necessary as a means of ensuring sustainable living.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 10:54 PM ----------

It's a punishment in the same sense getting wet is a punishment for sitting next to a pool.

When you have sex, protected or not, you run the risk of getting pregnant. It's how reproduction works for us.

And when you drive drunk, you run the risk of crashing. Do we deny drunk drivers medical care for the same reason?

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 10:55 PM ----------

So again what happens when the science is good enough to keep a fetus alive from the very start? If they start being counted a beings with rights, that would make every abortion previously performed into murder.

It's only logical to consider life from the moment of conception to be a valid first stage of life, because the science will get there eventually.

If that were the case then abortion would be a non-issue because the availability of artificial uteri would lead to far more historectomies.

[Agnar]

No, that's a right. I was referring to the privilege of not informing men until the last minute.

Destroying an unborn child is a right? How so? That is about the same as me saying I have the right to kill a guy cause I crashed into him with my car. How dare he live for my mistake? Did he ask for me to run into him... no.