Verdict finally in: MoP is substantially worse than previous expansions

[Deleted]

I could care less about these kind of reviews. The game could be the worst experience in mmo gaming of the last 20 years, if I like it, then the game is good (for me). Which is all that matters (or should matter) for each person.

[Pascal]

I'm sorry, but WoW is not a purely stat based combat system. Have you not noticed how much active response and movement there is in raiding? If you stand in one place and rely on stats and items to get the job done, you will die. Every time. And be called a noob (or worse) in the process.

WoW has an active combat system. It's just a little bit less active than other games, which is why the comparison is made. If it used a traditional stat based system (where your success or failure were determined by your stats), there'd be less of a comparison. But instead we have a system where I can avoid falling rocks, I can avoid meteors from the sky, I can avoid a huge number of specific attacks in raid combat... but I can't avoid the giant fist coming at my face by side-stepping it. It's jarring.



A new mechanic for every quest? What are you talking about? "Questing" in GW2 is just going to an area where something needs done, and doing it. It's as much learning a new mechanic as picking up new quests in WoW is. "Oh, I have to hit my interact button on these objects instead of those?" "Oh, I'm looking for sparkly apples instead of sparkly gears?"

And if you're referencing the random items/weapons you're sometimes given in GW2, they work exactly like any other weapon, just with different abilities. Nowhere near as jarring as the random vehicle bullshit (or did they not bring back any vehicle style quests in MoP? And even if they didn't, there were so many of them in Cata and revamped Old World I hardly think you can attack GW2 for this without attacking WoW for it).

You attack the reviewers for reviewing MoP without experiencing everything in it, but clearly you either did not play GW2 more than 10 minutes (if at all) or were so biased that you were just looking for things to criticize. But maybe you're right, maybe the renown hearts of GW2 are complicated. Let's read a sample one, shall we? I just logged into my warrior, went to a zone I hadn't been to before, and found the first renown heart I could find. It reads "Dispatch separatists, destroy their supplies, and steal explosive powder to give to Jahr Duskrend." I talk to the heart guy, and he describes the separatist camp just behind him, and offers to let me use his gear. I look at it, but it doesn't look all that useful so I decide to just run in with my greatsword and axe/shield. Sure enough, all I have to do is slaughter enemies and pick up sparkly things... just like WoW, except I don't have to kill specific quantities of named mobs ("Kill 10 bashers and 10 engineers, nevermind that there are 50 bashers and only 2 engineers...") So perhaps the problem is that unlike WoW, you can often choose not to use the special stuff they offer in GW2 and still progress?

My point isn't to turn this into a WoW vs GW2 debate, as I think those are silly (they really are very different games, and so shouldn't be directly compared, imo). My point is that your criticisms of GW2 sound, to me, as baseless and biased as the reviewers criticisms of WoW sound to you.

Edit: I won't post anything else about GW2 here, but I'd be happy to discuss it in PM if you want to continue the discussion.

Wow does not have an active combat system. Active combat system is a particular subset of a type of combat system that has a set definition. You can't just say "You have to move out of fire, so Wow has an active combat system." You can't actively dodge an attack, or riposte after successfully parrying. You don't aim your spells and arrows at the bosses, as long as it's targetted then you hit it (or don't, because of stats). If it HAS stats that directly affect your ability to strike an opponent, it's a stat based combat system. Moving out of AoE is not part of the 'combat' system as an AoE attack becomes an environmental effect after being cast or while being channeled.

And YOUR rampant bias toward GW2 is incredibly evident and I'm pretty sure the only things I said about it are that comparing it to WoW is dumb, that it has an active combat system, and that a lot of quests require or provide additional items or abilities that are relevant to only that one quest and that a lot of people have a gripe with that. I stated that an active combat system is not a revolutionary, amazing, end all be all that causes other games that don't use it to become cavemen, which is not particular to only GW2.

Seriously, reread exactly what I said about GW2. I didn't say it was a bad game, I didn't say it was shitty or bad compared to WoW. I said comparing the two is stupid. Not even joking, you put words into my mouth as if I said ANYTHING bad about GW2 except that people find issue with the quest system's habit of introducing new abilities and utilities into a large majority of quests. I say one negative thing about GW2 and you attack me and make assumptions. Hilarious, really.

[insmek]

Critics are reviewing the game based on the leveling experience or--even worse--their experience in the beta. Nothing will judge an MMORPG release like the community, and I think the community has spoken for itself in declaring Mists of Pandaria a rousing success.

[Torgent]

It was downvoted by expert critics e.g. IGN, eurogamer etc.

IGN is less credible than a random person you find on a street. IGN accepts mad amounts of money to rate games higher than they really deserve. They have been caught countless times and yet people still eat up whatever they dish out.

[Immitis]

The fact of the matter is Wrath had Lich King (not Norse), who has nothing to do with Norse kings, as the main element, whereas panda expansion has pandas which are China's native panda bears as the whole world knows, and Pandaria, which is basically the Chinatown of WoW. Blizzard can have whatever they wish in the game, but everybody does not have to like it.

The fact that you are basically saying in your post that "Vikings had kings so Lich King may be Norse" makes me think you cannot be older than 12. It's an incredibly pathetic logic, actually it's not even logic.
Norse had kings =/= all kings, including the Lich King, are Norse. Jeez, I cannot believe I had to explain that...

have you even played the expansion? the pandaren have hardly anything to do with the story after 5.0. they are far from "the main part of the expansion" *spoilers*

5.0 is about the mantid, the sha, and the mogu/zandalari resurgence

5.1 alliance and horde warships show up on the shores of karasange wilds and proceed to rip the jungle apart anduin dies or Atleast garrosh beats him so badly everyone thinks he dies, varian takes his first trial of the high king and the night elves name him their high king, wrathion sends players to the black temple to recruit the black harvest to their faction, once jaina finds out about sunreavers sneaking troops into darnasus she kicks the blood elves out of dalaran and jails or kills any who defy her and then makes the kirin tor exclusively alliance. garrosh gets ahold of the divine bell and starts to figure out a way to try and control the sha. lor'themar breaks into dalaran and slaughters kirin tor until he gets to the prison and sets the sunreavers free he then learns of garroshs plots and basically says if this warchief is just like garithos we might reconsider joining the alliance

5.2 we dont know exactly what happens but things get worse

5.3

5.4?

5.5 siege of orgrimar, at some point garrosh does something so horrible everyone wants him dead so varian who at this point has finished the trials of the high king has hAd every race of the alliance name him their king and hes now leading a group of elite alliance solders and si:7 along with horde rebels into orgrimmar and dethrones the warchief.

now idk about you but i dont see one mention of the pandaren anywhere in 5.1 other then the fact that some of it takes place on pandaria. in fact the majority of it doesnt even take place there it takes place in northrend, kalimdor, and outlands.

so please go on and tell me how 5.1 and the entire expansion is about "fluffy cuddly pandas"

[davesurfer]

29 page successful troll. OP has had 16 out of his last 20 threads locked.

[Kaorag]

Critics opinions should always always be taken lightly

[Chunkyman]

[Deleted]

- "Metacritic/IGN/gamespot suck(s), therefore you are wrong."
- My response: The theme of this post is the critics judgement of MoP. Also, if these reviewers had given extremely positive reviews of MoP, then I think a lot of people in this thread would have been defending them rather than attacking them.

- "MoP is based on a 8 year old engine, ofc it's gonna be worse!"
- My response: Cataclysm was for a 6 year old[ game and it got rave reviews, do you really think 2 years should make such a drastic impact?

First, game review sites have ALWAYS sucked. they often give scores based on what people expect rather then being subjective. "Warcraft was amazing, therefore wow must be amazing because I love warcraft", "wow is so awesome that the expansion must be awesome as well","people are saying pandas are a ripoff, better give it a lower score". See where I'm going?

Next, WoW's engine is perfectly capable of rendering FAR better graphics then WoW has. the MODELS AND TEXTURES are what's outdated. look at the differences between each expansion. new water and SLI in cata, SSAO in mop make the engine, which is based on an 8 year old engine, modern enough.updating models however, would take as much as half the developement time wow has had now.

[CrusaderNerò87]

have you even played the expansion? the pandaren have hardly anything to do with the story after 5.0. they are far from "the main part of the expansion" *spoilers*

5.0 is about the mantid, the sha, and the mogu/zandalari resurgence

5.1 alliance and horde warships show up on the shores of karasange wilds and proceed to rip the jungle apart anduin dies or Atleast garrosh beats him so badly everyone thinks he dies, varian takes his first trial of the high king and the night elves name him their high king, wrathion sends players to the black temple to recruit the black harvest to their faction, once jaina finds out about sunreavers sneaking troops into darnasus she kicks the blood elves out of dalaran and jails or kills any who defy her and then makes the kirin tor exclusively alliance. garrosh gets ahold of the divine bell and starts to figure out a way to try and control the sha. lor'themar breaks into dalaran and slaughters kirin tor until he gets to the prison and sets the sunreavers free he then learns of garroshs plots and basically says if this warchief is just like garithos we might reconsider joining the alliance

5.2 we dont know exactly what happens but things get worse

5.3

5.4?

5.5 siege of orgrimar, at some point garrosh does something so horrible everyone wants him dead so varian who at this point has finished the trials of the high king has hAd every race of the alliance name him their king and hes now leading a group of elite alliance solders and si:7 along with horde rebels into orgrimmar and dethrones the warchief.

now idk about you but i dont see one mention of the pandaren anywhere in 5.1 other then the fact that some of it takes place on pandaria. in fact the majority of it doesnt even take place there it takes place in northrend, kalimdor, and outlands.

so please go on and tell me how 5.1 and the entire expansion is about "fluffy cuddly pandas"

Man, how you describe it makes me so pumped for the wow story and future of it!! Sounds pretty awesome. In fact, even more cool to me than the Arthas(wotlk xpac) story. I played warcraft ever since the first game(the rts) and I just love the lore. No expert, but I like it. The LK story was kinda the peak for me, but if all of the stuff you wrote just there is going to happen... well YEAH

[Kioshi]

Verdict finally in: Some people can only live the way the internet tells them they should live their life.

[McFrotton]

A few months ago I posted a thread asking people to predict review scores for MoP:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-review-scores

The results were indisputable, most people predicted MoP would score 90-94%.

Now look at the score on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria

It is around 83%. This is the worst score a WoW expansion has ever had, and way below the expectations of what people predicted.

I'm not trying to start a war of words here, I'm pointing out factual data we now have regarding the quality of the expansion.

EDIT1: We're not talking about the USER SUBMITTED REVIEWS on metacritic here (which can be ignored), we're talking about the actual CRITIC Reviews from respected people like IGN, eurogamer and gamespot.

EDIT2:
Some points people have raised and my response:
- "It's impossible to judge this expansion until it's near the end, so the reviews don't matter"
- My response: You still have to pay full price for the expansion now, regardless of whether it's patch 5.3 or not, so reviews are valid.

- "Metacritic/IGN/gamespot suck(s), therefore you are wrong."
- My response: The theme of this post is the critics judgement of MoP. Also, if these reviewers had given extremely positive reviews of MoP, then I think a lot of people in this thread would have been defending them rather than attacking them.

- "MoP got 83%, why do you say MoP sucks?"
- My response: I'm not saying MoP sucks, I'm saying critical reception of MoP is far worse than previous expansions.

- "MoP is based on a 8 year old engine, ofc it's gonna be worse!"
- My response: Cataclysm was for a 6 year old game and it got rave reviews, do you really think 2 years should make such a drastic impact?

- "All my friends think MoP is awesome, therefore it is awesome."
- My response: This is anecdotal evidence and as such invalid in the larger context.

Ok so you posted 2 tiems in general to say MoP is garbage, we, NOW, all know you are trolling please get the fuck out and someone god please lock this thread.

[Glorious Leader]

Third, actual numbers posted by Blizzard on course of this expansion will show was this expansion good or bad. Until then it would be nice if people would restrain themselves of posting these threads.

Somehow I doubt anyone of you will accept the expansion is bad based on sub numbers. It's a night try though.

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 04:47 PM ----------

Honestly I find it silly MoP is already being compared to Cataclysm at all. Imo you shouldn't do that until MoP is over and has more patches.

At any rate I'm having way more fun at the start of MoP than I ever had in Cataclysm. Point being, I don't even bother reading critic reviews any more. I used to, when under the impression I should share their thoughts and feelings, then I realised they tend to over-think everything.

Why? History is repeating itself all over again. Unpopular regressive decisions have been made. Any changes that will be made will naturally set the community upon itself. Expect a blog detailing why the changes were made. Cataclysm 2.0.

[Glorious Leader]

And sub-numbers matter because...?

As long as I am having fun, it's a good expansion in my opinion.

According to the guy I quoted sub numbers would determine whether or not it was good or bad. Please do try and keep up with the conversation.

[Mawnix]

Somehow I doubt anyone of you will accept the expansion is bad based on sub numbers. It's a night try though.

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 04:47 PM ----------



Why? History is repeating itself all over again. Unpopular regressive decisions have been made. Any changes that will be made will naturally set the community upon itself. Expect a blog detailing why the changes were made. Cataclysm 2.0.

And since you want Mists to fail so badly, what happens if Blizzard delivers in all 3 major patches and doesn't continue the Cataclysm trend?

What happens then.

[Terahertz]

Not -trying- to be rude or anything. But you're argument against "It's impossible to judge this expansion until it's near the end, so the reviews don't matter" doesn't even make ANY sense.

We're literally in the first patch of the whole expansion. Many people have said this expansion is better than cataclysm due to better PvE and most importantly for me; PVP. While some numbers have still to be tweaked, the introducement of PvP power was the best that could happen to WoW.

See how I'm talking about PvP and those people are probably talking about PvE? While the majority of wow players might be PvE players, the minority of those players are those reviewers.

Idc if I'm going to be flamed for this. But the reviews of those people don't mean ANYTHING. While I haven't read the reviews, and idk if they have talked about PvP (neither can I be bothered to read those stupid reviews), but I doubt any of those reviewers have even stepped foot into an arena.

[Mawnix]

Not -trying- to be rude or anything. But you're argument against "It's impossible to judge this expansion until it's near the end, so the reviews don't matter" doesn't even make ANY sense.

We're literally in the first patch of the whole expansion. Many people have said this expansion is better than cataclysm due to better PvE and most importantly for me; PVP. While some numbers have still to be tweaked, the introducement of PvP power was the best that could happen to WoW.

See how I'm talking about PvP and those people are probably talking about PvE? While the majority of wow players might be PvE players, the minority of those players are those reviewers.

Idc if I'm going to be flamed for this. But the reviews of those people don't mean ANYTHING. While I haven't read the reviews, and idk if they have talked about PvP (neither can I be bothered to read those stupid reviews), but I doubt any of those reviewers have even stepped foot into an arena.

I agree with you to a degree.

I just..

When it comes to WoW or other games I enjoy and I'm not skeptical about, I don't listen to reviewers.

If you enjoy it, play it.

Who cares?

[Hellfury]

Why wouldn't sub maters?

Wow never had so much competition as it has now, and still keeping MOP kept 10million ppl.

Mop its a sucess, this doesnt mean everyone that played in Wotlk or Cata are back alot are on Gw2, still on D3, Swtor and the 10000x free online games. It must mean MOP got new players into the MMO market for a game so old to get new players means the machine is running good.

[Deleted]

The second I read "metacritic" I knew you're just another ignorant idiot.

[Invictus9001]

Calling metacritic as factual data wiped your credibility out of existence instantly, <snip>

^Quoted For Truth. Metacritic being cited as a source of "end all" authority?? SMH. That's like calling Jeff Foxworthy a teacher based on the fact he hosted the show, Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?