How can Garrosh stand against the rest of the Horde, let alone + the Alliance? (5.3)

[Deleted]

I dont believe that Garrosh and his kor'kron thugs are enough to beat the entire Horde. Alone against one race, maybe, but not against them all.

The Darkspear and tauren's strength we'll see in 5.3 I guess, but they aren't the only ones in on the rebellion. Lor'themar Theron has been in contact with vol'jin, and plans to move agaisnt Garrosh too after he's done on the isle of thunder.

Blood Elves actually have a proper military (farstriders/rangers, blood knights, magisters, sunfury, spellbreakers, arcane golems, and now Sunreavers) and have a few big weapons too, like mana bombs and these new blood golems from 5.2. throw in whatever Sylvanas would offer (banshees, deathguards, dark rangers, etc) and Garrosh is in VERY big trouble. The kor'kron guard cant possibly stand against all that, especially with dissenters in the orcs too.

And now the Alliance is in the picture too.

I just dont get how Garrosh can win this. I know orcs and humans pull new populations out of their ass all the time, but even so it just doesnt fit. The Kor'kron might be enough to put a police state on one darkspear island, but even that is going to be destroyed in 5.3.

[Deleted]

How can Garrosh stand agianst everyone else? He cant. Players QQed loud enough and as such he was deemed guilty for not being Thrall. As punishment he will fight a one sided battle after which players will rub in the fact how Thrall is the only valid Warchief and how blizzard screwed up writting. It seems to me that bad writting is recognized as anything that people dont like, but hey! If you look at it in a certain way, you can conclude everything abstract is completely subjective. Personally the only bad writting part I found in blizzard's lore is 180 degree chicken out on Garrosh entirely.

[Gimlix]

Never underestimate the strength that a small group can have.

[Zaelsino]

Vol'jin touches on it in 5.3. He's waiting on Theron (and maybe Sylvanas) before making his move, but they're across the ocean and the former is finishing up elsewhere. The rebellion needs to move now; Garrosh is already locking down districts, getting his hands on yet more sha toys, and executing dissenters. The Alliance stepping in to subtly back the rebellion gives the forces already fighting in Kalimdor a better chance of success.

It's not really as simple as just porting your entire standing army to Garrosh's doorstep. Leaving your own lands undefended in any situation isn't a great idea; it's more likely to be an (apparently naval) force of X against Garrosh and his loyalists, with we the players typically doing almost all of the work. Not everything every race involved has to offer.

[Deleted]

I think a certain dark container the goblins found while digging out the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, brought back to Kalimdor by his right-hand Malkork, will play a significant role.

[Maxilian]

Well i think that's how the Sha will affect the battle, and that will give him enought power to fight the alliance + the rest of the horde

[Wishblade]

I imagine he's got a whole bunch of forces all over the place, like the Dark Shaman and whatnot. Add in some possible sha'y goodness from the Dark Heart of Pandaria and the fact that he's got the fortress city of Orgrimmar and he won't be a simple pushover.

[Karagar]

Vol'jin touches on it in 5.3. He's waiting on Theron (and maybe Sylvanas) before making his move, but they're across the ocean and the former is finishing up elsewhere. The rebellion needs to move now; Garrosh is already locking down districts, getting his hands on yet more sha toys, and executing dissenters. The Alliance stepping in to subtly back the rebellion gives the forces already fighting in Kalimdor a better chance of success.

It's not really as simple as just porting your entire standing army to Garrosh's doorstep. Leaving your own lands undefended in any situation isn't a great idea; it's more likely to be an (apparently naval) force of X against Garrosh and his loyalists, with we the players typically doing almost all of the work. Not everything every race involved has to offer.

Very much this. Also there's the little fact that Baine seems to be trying to get as many of his people as possible out of Orgrimaar before he puts the (significant) weight of the Tauren Nation behind the rebellion officially.

[Otimus]

How can Garrosh stand agianst everyone else? He cant. Players QQed loud enough and as such he was deemed guilty for not being Thrall. As punishment he will fight a one sided battle after which players will rub in the fact how Thrall is the only valid Warchief and how blizzard screwed up writting. It seems to me that bad writting is recognized as anything that people dont like, but hey! If you look at it in a certain way, you can conclude everything abstract is completely subjective. Personally the only bad writting part I found in blizzard's lore is 180 degree chicken out on Garrosh entirely.

I'd say WoW is riddled with bad writing. It basically just takes popular stories and puts a WoW spin on it, and throws a gallon of pop culture references in it. In fact!
That's how Blizzard writes everything they make. They take X that already exists, put a Blizzard spin on X, then chock it full of lame pop culture references.

Hell, that's their gameplay design, too. Take something X did, do the same thing, make it simpler, more streamlined, profit!

Not saying any of this is a bad thing, not really. But it's the entire Blizzard MO since they came into existence :x

[Aberration]

Garrosh won't win though.

[Combatbutler]

The rebellion is still splintered across the globe, each faction on its own has no chance of victory. They have to gather in order to strike at Og, which gives Garrosh time to perfect his sha techniques, empowering his followers. Same goes for the Alliance it has to gather first, it is not like they can teleport entire armies instantly across the globe(lorewise).

[Trassk]

I think this is on a percentages basis more then anything, coupled with who wields power.

The orcs, fact of the matter, have the largest population in terms of an army. At nearly every horde outpost, village or town, you see orc grunts patrolling places across kalimdor, northrend, outland, pandaria and even some across eastern kingdom, so you get an idea of scale of there forces.

I would guess the only way you could have the other horde races match this was with the efforts of blood elves, who seem large in number.

That said, and I hope blizzard calls on this, I want to see some effort put into which orcs are siding with the rebellion. I want to see frostwolves there, I want to see saurfang and eitrigg leading there own, to show that it isn't just orcs as a collective siding with garrosh.

[ColbaneX]

The rebellion is still splintered across the globe, each faction on its own has no chance of victory. They have to gather in order to strike at Og, which gives Garrosh time to perfect his sha techniques, empowering his followers. Same goes for the Alliance it has to gather first, it is not like they can teleport entire armies instantly across the globe(lorewise).

Jaina could.

[Breccia]

It's not if Garrosh can win, it's if he thinks he can win. Look back at his actions, quotes, and "tactics" since Cata began. Even if he was affected by the Sha of Pride, like Arthas, he's done PLENTY before that to demonstrate his only real strategy seems to be "everybody charge on three". The destruction of Theramore is the only thing he's done that's remotely clever, and even that was "hit them very hard, and then, hit them even harder". He did not account for reactions to his actions, such as what Jaina did afterwards (and what she nearly did afterwards). He's just not thinking. And everyone can see it except him.

Now, Garrosh is, himself, a very powerful warrior. He's backed by the Kor'kron, Gallywix, the war machines he's been building, whatever faction Malkorok actually represents (there's a story there we aren't getting told yet), and an unknown number of magic Mogu/Titan relics dug up from Pandaria. Pressing all of that into a small area (by re-taking the Barrens and Ashenvale) concentrates them into a pretty small space, which he should be able to defend for a while. Say, until 5.4 comes out. Until then, Garrosh becomes Kil Jong Orc, well-armed and dangerous but cornered, outnumbered, and planless.

There's also the issue of losses. Assuming Varian could order the entire Alliance military to just zerg Orgrimmar, a well-defended stronghold filled with elite guards and crazy weapons, they should expect to take heavy losses. That's why you don't usually just bum-rush a fortress. That's why Varian's not going to issue that order. Look at, for example, the north exit of Org. It's a long canyon which would funnel an army down to 10 across or so, right through a path of about 50 war machines. Sending rank-and-file troops through that is suicide. If the quest chain in 5.1 taught us nothing else, it's that getting large amounts of people and equipment through portals is apparently very difficult, so teleporting in is not a valid option, either. Varian is not stupid. He'll count on the trolls, tauren, and whatever to the south to do their job, while he barricades the north. That's when the players move in as a commando special forces and do our damage, with heavy interaction with the main characters on both sides (expect to meet Jaina and Vol'jin, for example).

[Combatbutler]

Jaina could.

Nope she couldn't, she can teleport many but not an entire army, otherwise she wouldn't have had such problems getting defenders to Theramore.

[ColbaneX]

Nope she couldn't, she can teleport many but not an entire army, otherwise she wouldn't have had such problems getting defenders to Theramore.

In game limitation. They don't like anyone but Thrall being ZOMFG OP! I mean, for christ sake do you remember Halls of Reflection? She took LK down to 1/3hp by herself.(Although Tirion suffers from Thrall syndrome just a little bit.)

[The Ogdru Jahad]

Hubris. When you are powerhungry, an orc, a warlord, and are just plain ol' delusional. You'll think you stand a chance.

[WeaponXAnimosity]

Blizz will most likely reveal that Garrosh acquired some sort of uber weapon that can challenge a force strength as vast as the Horde and Alliance combined. Garrosh did come into possession of the Divine Bell so I wouldn't be surprised if Blizz left Garrosh with some remnant or similar artifact. The whole thing seems similar to how North Korea is still standing, despite international pressure.

[Florena]

Not to mention, as Baine puts it, Orgrimmar is been made into a fortress. Those aren't always easy to siege even with superior numbers. And Garrosh is known for using dirty super weapons. Enslaved magnotaur, molten giants, krakken, mana bombs, you name it.

[kingriku]

Never underestimate the strength that a small group can have.

A nice example of this is Germany, i mean they are a pretty tiny country and they were devastating countries.