Shadow PvP secondary stats

[aetti morkna]

I've jumped onto the Shadow bandwagon after trying to play Disc for a while, and I'm starting to gear up as shadow now.

My question is, what percentages am I going for in my secondary stats? I feel like my haste is way too low. Right now, I'm at 27% mastery, 10.50% haste and 11.50% crit.

What do I want to go for?

[Deleted]

Dude...

PVPPOWER - INT - HITCAP - HASTE - CRIT - MASTERY !

Haste is far the best stat after pvppower/int!
Just reforge everything to haste, then crit if the current item has haste+mastery

[Deleted]

dont go crit. crit is basicly the same for your dots as mastery (doubling the damage of the dot tick vs procing another dot tick) but the proc from the mastery can proc stuff like instant mb or mindspike (with the two talents) while crit just doubles the damage of the tick. sure mindspike and mindblast is not effected by mastery but you get more of them instant with mastery and getting a lot of mindblast coooldown resets = lots of orbs = lots of dp = lots of burst damage. also you have to hardcast less in arena which is a good thing too.

[Deleted]

OFC you need crit!
Crit is 200% dmg for ALL your spells and dots, incl shadowfiend/mindbender. Mastery is only dots, and the "instant procs" you speak about.. You're getting enough already!

Flexes, dont talk about stuff that you obviously doesnt know anything about!

Haste - Crit - Mastery is the way to go. Trust me

[Deleted]

Spell Hit (6%) > PvP Power > Intellect > PvP Resilience > Haste > Crit > Mastery

[Nigeldruid]

In terms of pure damage crit is better than mastery, however, that's assuming that you get to just stand still and nuke. Therefore, in most scenarios mastery is likely to come out on top in terms of getting kills (or CDs) due to more instant-procs. More procs, more orbs, more Psychic horrors/DPs as well. More mastery also means more mana. Healing benefits from crit, but not from mastery. Which of the two is better is entirely up to you. I'm going mastery atm, but I'm going to try out crit at some point.

[Kreuz Kontrol]

OFC you need crit!
Crit is 200% dmg for ALL your spells and dots, incl shadowfiend/mindbender. Mastery is only dots, and the "instant procs" you speak about.. You're getting enough already!

Flexes, dont talk about stuff that you obviously doesnt know anything about!

Haste - Crit - Mastery is the way to go. Trust me

If you think you have enough DI and FDCL procs with a Warrior crammed down your throat while it is almost utterly impossible to get a hardcast off then you are sorely mistaken.

[Deleted]

If you think you have enough DI and FDCL procs with a Warrior crammed down your throat while it is almost utterly impossible to get a hardcast off then you are sorely mistaken.

You may need to change your playstyle first of all, if a warrior is training you so hard, that it gets impossible to cast.

[Deleted]

6% hit > pvp power > int > haste > mastery > crit.

Mastery is superior to crit in almost any scenario because of the increased amount of procs and mana regen. Go play a handful of arena matches and you will realise how little of your damage actually comes from hardcasting mind blast and mind flay.
The increased mana regen is also pretty huge. The difference between little and some mastery is pretty huge. Now that I am having a tad more mastery (because of better gear) I have less mana issues and I rarely have to rotate dispersion/shadowfiend for mana purposes (and actually use the abilities for their intended purpose).

[Tobbx]

6% hit > pvp power > int > haste > mastery > crit.

Mastery is superior to crit in almost any scenario because of the increased amount of procs and mana regen. Go play a handful of arena matches and you will realise how little of your damage actually comes from hardcasting mind blast and mind flay.
The increased mana regen is also pretty huge. The difference between little and some mastery is pretty huge. Now that I am having a tad more mastery (because of better gear) I have less mana issues and I rarely have to rotate dispersion/shadowfiend for mana purposes (and actually use the abilities for their intended purpose).

I find it often that instant mind spike proccs that critts is the main factor that my target actually dies. Considering that 70% of my 3s game is either against a hunter or a warrior, is it sometimes hard to get out casts if the opponent, especially if they try to lock you down. My point is, I would not call either of crit or mastery the best stat, but rather how you play will determine which is the best stat, also your current comp.

I am currently running shatterplay at 2k+ and I would without doubt suggest critt for that comp, since you want as much dmg as possible during a deep freeze But if you are playing with something like a warlock (affli), would I suggest mastery


So please stop telling people what is the best stat, when they are so close to each other in values. Decide upon your playstyle and comp More mastery means more overall dmg (in most cases), critt means more burst (in most cases).

Best of regard

Tobbx

[Yvaelle]

I agree with Tobbx on this. They are very close, and I can see both being justified depending on comp mostly. If your team isn't going to be able to peel melee off you - mastery is very probably best for procs. The best comps for shadow though are generally comps that provide shadow with a babysitter (frost mage, rogue, warlock) who can peel frequently to allow us to cast as much as possible.

These same comps are often dependent on either strong coordinated burst to score kills (shadow/mage, shadow/rogue) which Crit is way more important because you can Crit Halo/MB/DP initial hit/SW: Death but mastery does Nothing for you during that critical moment. It used to work out a little differently for shadowplay but the conclusion was the same - historically the afflock brought no real burst, their job was peels and pressure - so ALL the burst was on the shadowpriest with mind blast combos: crit matters, mastery does not.

Nowadays aff locks probably burst just as hard as shadowpriests during their trinket/dark soul/malefic grasp - so they don't really need us to burst (which is good, because we're less bursty than in the past relative to todays burst) - but I could still see an argument even for a shadowplay spriest to run crit - they're getting peels, and a lucky crit streak will score a kill potentially sooner than wearing them down with pressure will.

Beyond that spell hit > pvp power > int > spellpower > haste, I think the rest of the stat weights is mostly down to playstyle and composition. If you're playing warrior/spriest/holy paladin you're probably the kill target and your not getting peels - mastery would work best here. If your playing shatterplay - upping the likelihood of a crit DP initial hit or a Death during the mages shatter is much more likely to guarentee a kill than mastery - because you'll get to freecast the whole fight anyways.

[aetti morkna]

This forum post has been very helpful, and I thank everyone for your opinions on it.

As a result, over the last day or two I've been working on my shadow priest set, and I've been choosing almost exclusively gear with haste as a stat on it (even down to weapons from heroics), and as for the secondary stat... Well, I'll just see what I end up with.

edit: Also, took two of the spirit haste rings, one from malevolent set and the other from honor set.

[KieraDK]

I'd rather ask here than start a new thread as the questions are in the same vein;
Would it be better to get 2-set Holy/Disc and 2-set Shadow or Shadow all the way?

I'm only likely to do random BG's and non-serious Arena

[Yvaelle]

I'd rather ask here than start a new thread as the questions are in the same vein;
Would it be better to get 2-set Holy/Disc and 2-set Shadow or Shadow all the way?

I'm only likely to do random BG's and non-serious Arena

I think I'd still recommend 4p Shadow, unfortunately not having some kind of dispel deterrent against a skilled enemy healer is just too devastating. Sin and Punishment isn't a great deterrent - but having played some arenas without it now, it's essential - otherwise they can too easily remove all your pressure from your kill target: at least with S&P you aren't losing a GCD war in the process - 3 gcds for dot applications, 3 gcds of CC (dispel gcd + 2 gcds of horror).

Also, they made 2p/2p not work some seasons back, which is why we were all using mooncloth 4p last expansion - does it work again now?

[aetti morkna]

I'm not certain, but I think he was suggesting taking the +~4000 resilience from PW:S, since it would technically help us too.

[KieraDK]

I'm not certain, but I think he was suggesting taking the +~4000 resilience from PW:S, since it would technically help us too.

I was indeed, however, 4-piece Shadow does seem to be required.
Plus I didn't know that 2p/2p doesn't work.
Thanks!

[Deleted]

Double 2p works, I am currently using both.As dispelling dots is not really an issue. But i will disagree with most people here, I went for crit, I find hast completely useless in pvp as we are nearly only spamming instants(vt is the only real hard cast), and crit is the only stat that actually increase the dmg of our main nukes: Direct dmg of DP, halo, MB, MS. Certainly mastery increase their chance to proc, but when you have two fully dotted target, you will never really be out of procs. OFC I am not saying its the best way, but to me maximizing our burst potentiel seems to be the best way to go.
Plus crit is the only stat that increase our healing effectively.

[Krimson]

I can confirm that double 2p works. I started this season Disc and switched over to shadow, and was using 2p/2p for a while, while regrinding some gear.

I think double 2p could be doable in random bg's. It will give you some extra survivability and most healers in random's aren't worried about dispel'ing anyone except themselves. For arena or RBG's it's absolutely necessary to get 4p satin or teams with healers are just going to nullify your existence.

[AvaEve]

Double 2p works, I am currently using both.As dispelling dots is not really an issue. But i will disagree with most people here, I went for crit, I find hast completely useless in pvp as we are nearly only spamming instants(vt is the only real hard cast), and crit is the only stat that actually increase the dmg of our main nukes: Direct dmg of DP, halo, MB, MS. Certainly mastery increase their chance to proc, but when you have two fully dotted target, you will never really be out of procs. OFC I am not saying its the best way, but to me maximizing our burst potentiel seems to be the best way to go.
Plus crit is the only stat that increase our healing effectively.

Don't forget haste reduces the gcd. Faster dispels and offheals. Yes, crit does increase the damage of our main nukes. However, pull up recount or a damage tracker in arena and you'll be surprised how much of our damage comes from dots.

[Deleted]

I actually have recount and it is true SWP is our main source of damage but its not efficient damage. You will always have 2 to 3 target dotted by swp, so the damage you see on recount with swp is not "real damage" since a regular hot can pretty much negate the damage of swp.