DK tanking on Gara'jal the Spiritbinder

[bals]

Yes he melees harder in 25 man. No, I don't believe it's impossible to keep 100% uptime on boneshiled and 80-90% uptime seems more than realistic for blood shield. Gara'jal hits the tank approximately 25k harder per white hit, which is only about 20% harder and you have 4 people sharing voodoo doll instead of 3 to help mitigate that increase. This increase in damage seems to be consistent with all other forms of boss shadow damage in 25 as well. Dwarfs is hardly the appropriate word to use here imo.

When you get fixated by the boss and the other tank went down, by stacking avoidance, having a full hp absorb going in, and 6 stacks of bone shield, with another 6 ready to go at a moments notice by getting it on cd going into the fixate, you should be able to keep it up full time even on 25 man. If not, let's not forget how many external additional cds are available in 25 over 10 to help mitigate that fact not to mention far more absorbs from healers helping your bone shield uptime even more.

I've competitively raided progression content in both 10 and 25 settings and am well aware of the differences. I do agree that dks come with their challenges on this fight, but the damage differential between 10 and 25 is not quite as alarming as you're making it out to be. Check logs if you don't believe me.

gara'jal melees for upwards of 200k on H25man without cds

you misunderstand how voodoo doll works.
it doesn't split the damage.
the damage is shared 1:1 after absorbs and damage reduction.

if tank gets hit for 150k,
voodoo doll 1 gets hit for 150k
voodoo doll 2 gets hit for 150k
voodoo doll 3 gets hit for 150k
voodoo doll 4 gets hit for 150k

[matthias9742]

So I know the absorption effect of AMZ does not work, but the first part of it says it reduces magic damage by 75%. Has anyone checked to see if at least this part works for shadowy attacks?

[Shiira]

The 75% reduction is an absorb.

AMZ does nothing to shadowy attacks.

[matthias9742]

The 75% reduction is an absorb.

AMZ does nothing to shadowy attacks.

Sadface. Ability is worded oddly compared to AMS so I had hopes. Oh well, I still use it for shadowy minion damage.

[burbon]

gara'jal melees for upwards of 200k on H25man without cds

you misunderstand how voodoo doll works.
it doesn't split the damage.
the damage is shared 1:1 after absorbs and damage reduction.

if tank gets hit for 150k,
voodoo doll 1 gets hit for 150k
voodoo doll 2 gets hit for 150k
voodoo doll 3 gets hit for 150k
voodoo doll 4 gets hit for 150k

I'll concede the point on voodoo doll damage distribution, however the original point I was speaking to was the disparity of tank damage intake on 10 vs 25. There are no logs I've seen that suggest gara'jal melees (white attacks) that hard. Every single one I've looked at on 25 man suggests he melees anywhere from 100-130k on average. His shadow hits can hit upwards of 200k on 25 man yes, but they hit upwards of 160k on 10 man.

This bringing me back to my original point that the damage difference between 10 and 25 was not as big as the original poster was making it out to be. It's a 20-25% difference at worst. Again, the original argument posed to me was that keeping up blood shield and bone shield at very high percentages is unfeasible on 25 man, which I would contend based on the fact that his white hits are the ONLY thing that would factor in here.

[Tricksterjim]

I healed this last night with a DK and Warr. DK was a beast! Voodoo dolls took no damage while he was tanking. His shield literally stopped every physical attack. Warr on the other hand had heavy spike. DKs are more than fine on this fight.

[Shiira]

Dks are more than good enough for normal mode, but that's beside the point.

[Kakera]

No solution to 2dks on this fight, you should re-think your raid comp.

That would be a huge negative.

[NeverStop]

That would be a huge negative.

Is it that hard to switch the two DKs to a Brewmaster + a Prot Pally? I'd assume most guilds raiding Heroics have benched players / alts to support class stacking, just like how Paragon did with Druids and Heart of the Wild on their 10m H Gara'jal kill.

[matthias9742]

New question! Does the meta gem Effulgent Primal Diamond work against shadow attacks with the 2% spell damage reduction? If so might be worth pairing with Spell Shattering on this fight.

[bals]

New question! Does the meta gem Effulgent Primal Diamond work against shadow attacks with the 2% spell damage reduction? If so might be worth pairing with Spell Shattering on this fight.

honestly, in our attempts on this fight on h25man, it wasn't the shadowy attacks that was bad.
it was getting meleed a lot before and/or after that was the main problem.

[Maelstrom51]

Is it that hard to switch the two DKs to a Brewmaster + a Prot Pally? I'd assume most guilds raiding Heroics have benched players / alts to support class stacking, just like how Paragon did with Druids and Heart of the Wild on their 10m H Gara'jal kill.

My group has nobody on the bench, and most of us don't even have a second level 90. We're not a hardcore group, we're just pretty good at raiding. So yes, it is hard to switch.

[Reniat]

DK tanks can tank 25H Gara'jal. Just be really good about rotating your CDs for shadowy attacks and plan your death strikes around them as well. Try to put a DS in front of and behind each shadowy attacks (do-able with an 8 second timer on the shadowy attacks) to give your healers enough time to heal them up after each shadowy attack burst. It's rough, but it's do-able. If you let one melee attack go through before/after a shadowy attack without a mitigation CD (not DRW or VB) you could end up with 3 dead raiders on your hands, so really pay attention.

[NeverStop]

If it makes you feel any better, even Riggnaros was benched for Blood Legion's H Gara'jal kills (check his armory). The Voodoo Doll mechanic hurts DKs so much due to the way our active mitigation works. Perhaps Blizzard should have made self-heals also heal the other Voodoo targets for a certain percentage, but that still doesn't prevent the insta-gibb from an ill-timed Shadowy Attack + boss special melee.

[Varyk]

They're worthless. They're entirely dependent on absorbs. That's really all there is to it.

[Reniat]

They're worthless. They're entirely dependent on absorbs. That's really all there is to it.

You can still absorb the melee, and a shadowy attack by itself won't kill anyone. this is why you have to use DS in a way that prevents a melee immediately before/after the shadowy attacks.

[Anastacy]

I cant speak for our healers, but tanking 10man Heroic Garaj the damage spread seemed even when I tanked and our Warrior tanked. Our issue is hitting enrage.

What are some tips for extra DPS? I was in almost fullblown DPS rotation, DRW on CD if tanking, etc.

[Reniat]

I cant speak for our healers, but tanking 10man Heroic Garaj the damage spread seemed even when I tanked and our Warrior tanked. Our issue is hitting enrage.

What are some tips for extra DPS? I was in almost fullblown DPS rotation, DRW on CD if tanking, etc.

As far as the 10m 25m thing, stuff generally hits harder in 25m.

For dps you could try Death Siphon. Just be careful how often you use it. You sacrifice Death Strikes for it, but as long as you are above 50k AP you will get a dps increase from using death siphon. If you haven't already, get some hit/exp.

[Anastacy]

As far as the 10m 25m thing, stuff generally hits harder in 25m.

For dps you could try Death Siphon. Just be careful how often you use it. You sacrifice Death Strikes for it, but as long as you are above 50k AP you will get a dps increase from using death siphon. If you haven't already, get some hit/exp.

Yeah, hit and exp had crossed my mind. Was already using STR food. I averaged around 40k DPS each attempt. What are some of you pulling on 10man?

[Reniat]

Yeah, hit and exp had crossed my mind. Was already using STR food. I averaged around 40k DPS each attempt. What are some of you pulling on 10man?

I raid 25m so I can't say, but STR food doesn't really do much anymore since most of your AP comes from vengeance.