Ret 5.1 - YOUR changes.

[Faesroll]

The change I would make is giving Holy Wrath back to Ret.

Remove the link between CS and DS there is no reason for them to be linked.

Remove DS from using Holy Power.


Those changes would really fix a number of issues but most importantly the AE issues we have to face.

If holy wrath were to come back I'd want to see it buffed. Big time. Personally I'd fix inquisition duration, at least go back to the 36 seconds we had after T11, currently with Sanctified wrath you're bound to refresh it once while its up, beside the fact 30 seconds just feel short, even while doing dailies.

[DemaioJ]

I think you all are living in dreamland. Ret dps is fine right now. The changes you all are so quick to propose will put ret over the top, especially with 4pc.

Apparently I need to put in 10 chars

[Vash The Stampede]

This is what I would change.

1. Inquisition no longer costs holy power and costs 15k mana instead.

2. Crusader strike does 15% more damage

3. Templar's verdict does 5% more damage

I think this would put Ret dps in a perfect spot.

I think those changes would be perfect. I would like to see something done about Hand of Purity. Does any Paladin actually pick up this talent? It's like Blizz ran out of ideas and threw this in there.

[DemaioJ]

Inquisition no longer costing holy power is obscenely broken.

[kosechi]

people need to stop complaining about inquisition. it was fine in cata, and its even better now that they've fixed our resource starvation issues. with out inquisition to micro manage ret would probably be back to being as mindless as FCFS was in wolk.

I think those changes would be perfect. I would like to see something done about Hand of Purity. Does any Paladin actually pick up this talent? It's like Blizz ran out of ideas and threw this in there.

my guild has me spec it for 2 fights in MV so far (heroic dogs, heroic feng) having 5 of them (2x from rets 2x from holys 1x from prot) at our disposal pretty much reduces the dot damage on those fights to a non issue.

i also specced it in arena vs a shadowplay earlier this week.

it is incredibly powerful, but incredibly situational.

[JayJay09]

We defenitely need a far better dmg mitigation. We almost have nothing and everything is active. Silence makes us completely helpless. And we would need some kind of cc breaker. TV deals far too little dmg. Just take Obliterate as reference. Divine Purpose is a must..

I feel like being non stop feared.


Ret's state is really really bad. I didn't it expect it to be that bad, really. But it is.

Oh, and Inq is not fine. Not a bit. It's a nuisance. Far too annoying to reapply all the time. In Pve it might be okay, but in PvP this is just a friggin pain in the ass.

[Deleted]

TV - as many have already said, its very lack luster, maybe it will feel better with 2PC bonus

Dead time - sometimes you can get serious dead time on a ret and can seriously ruin some fights (elegon orbs for example) we need another, optional low damage filler

Inquisition - sometimes I feel inquisition to be tedious as fuck, I can understand that sometimes you need a 1/2 HP inq, but I have also got into a rotation of starting a fight exo, judge, crusader, inq and if I miss/parry/dodge one of those spells I usually always end up with a 2hp inq due to habit, its my personal fault, but I think the spell needs to be changed

CDs - we rely so much on our CDs to deal damage, to improve sustainability I would be happy with a nerf on our CDs and buffing everything else slightly

p.s. hi helai

[Juicy]

Remove target requirement from HotR.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who does good dps here and satisfied with my retribution specc? I think you guys don't do something right, it's where it should be, in the middle of the pack. Why do we have to be overpowered or underpowered. You must be seriously bad if you can't pull good dps by speccing into sanctified wrath and pwning the hell out of everything with a cd macro and a simple rotation lol.
-No offense.

[DemaioJ]

Who's in the middle of the pack?

[Deleted]

Im very fine with the damage its just the playstyle thats bothering me alittle. Might get better with ALOT more haste but I dont really wanna wait til' the end of the expansion to have a decent rotation without having to wait 3.8sec för CS cooldown.

Like earlier mentioned. Running in exo-judge-CS and the CS get parried because the tank doesnt turn the boss around. woop 3.8sec for next CS.

Like I said earlier in this thread. Getting Holy Wrath back with a glyph or something to make it work like howling blast would fix the problem alittle. Having something that does less damage but still does something and also helping us out on AoE fights.

[Tangra]

Who's in the middle of the pack?

As many have stated Inquisition needs to go. It's an outdated dinosaur from a time when Ret's rotation was too simple, as well as a now completely unnecessary way of controlling high PvP damage, which is really no longer an issue. It just needs to become a passive. In PvP it's particularly annoying since we are often forced to refresh it at the worst possible time, and what is even worse is that if you're under great pressure, and have to offheal, you don't have the HP needed to keep Inquisition up, and so your team loses even more momentum. It's also extremely annoying during AoE situations, since adds often come in quick waves and don't live very long, and so having to dump 3HP on Inquisition often means the adds are already halfway dead. It's clunky, it's boring, it's unnecessary, it leads to awkward drops in our damage at difficult to control times... it needs to go.

[Phantoms]

I think you all are living in dreamland. Ret dps is fine right now. The changes you all are so quick to propose will put ret over the top, especially with 4pc.

This. Templar's Verdict gets much stronger with 2pc.

4pc changes the spec entirely.

RET IS FINE. God...people will never understand.

[Tangra]

Inquisition no longer costing holy power is obscenely broken.

That's an obscene exaggeration, I think you just like hearing yourself talk. Our damage is mediocre in both PvP and PvE, so dumping that pointless spell would increase sustained damage and also remove many awkward and untimely drops in our dps, especially in PvP. Considering how many things in this game are truly "obscenely broken" in this game, I would really hold off on the over-dramatizing, when discussing the removal of a boring, awkward, and unnecessary spell for a spec that is quite mediocre, and has been for years.

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 05:21 PM ----------

This. Templar's Verdict gets much stronger with 2pc.

4pc changes the spec entirely.

RET IS FINE. God...people will never understand.

Set bonuses shouldn't change specs entirely, so that doesn't change the fact that the spec needs work. What is even more important, however, is that getting 4pc or even 2pc takes quite a while right now, so by the time you get it, good guilds have already cleared many heroic modes and have also filled up with dps that aren't complete crap until they get their 4pc.

[kosechi]

As many have stated Inquisition needs to go. It's an outdated dinosaur from a time when Ret's rotation was too simple, as well as a now completely unnecessary way of controlling high PvP damage, which is really no longer an issue. It just needs to become a passive. In PvP it's particularly annoying since we are often forced to refresh it at the worst possible time, and what is even worse is that if you're under great pressure, and have to offheal, you don't have the HP needed to keep Inquisition up, and so your team loses even more momentum. It's also extremely annoying during AoE situations, since adds often come in quick waves and don't live very long, and so having to dump 3HP on Inquisition often means the adds are already halfway dead. It's clunky, it's boring, it's unnecessary, it leads to awkward drops in our damage at difficult to control times... it needs to go.

geeez. learn to manage your resources better, slow down the pace of the match by pillaring and controlling the other team. don't be afraid to pop a 1HP inqu up for the crit buff to heal. between the pvp 4set and how quickly we generate it right now you will always be sitting on 1-2 HP. manage your resources correctly and coordinate your pressure with your partner correctly you will never have to refresh it at inopertune times.

inquisition is FINE. in fact its better then fine now that we are no longer resource starved. like seal twisting in the past, good inquisition management can separate the great rets from the average rets and the good rets from the truly abysmal ones.


rets are really great right now mechanically. we work, which is amazing considering our history of being broken. damage is tuned a little bit lower then i would like, but i think a few classes are over performing which makes us look worse.

rets could use some passive protection against physical damage, i still don't understand the logic behind the Divine Protection change. it should still20% magic/20% physical, glyphable for 40% magic instead of the other way round because as it stands we only have active defenses against magic and zero passive defenses or defense against physical damage other the bubble/BoP.

i think damage reduction should also be backed back into RF to bring it in line with the tank stances of other tank capable hybrids even if it comes at a resource reduction cost.

[-Skye]

The changes I would like to see is CD's nerfed and sustained buffed, I like the way things work right now. Inquisition is just a QoL life thing, I don't mind it really.

[Tangra]

geeez. learn to manage your resources better, slow down the pace of the match by pillaring and controlling the other team. don't be afraid to pop a 1HP inqu up for the crit buff to heal. between the pvp 4set and how quickly we generate it right now you will always be sitting on 1-2 HP. manage your resources correctly and coordinate your pressure with your partner correctly you will never have to refresh it at inopertune times.

inquisition is FINE. in fact its better then fine now that we are no longer resource starved. like seal twisting in the past, good inquisition management can separate the great rets from the average rets and the good rets from the truly abysmal ones.


rets are really great right now mechanically. we work, which is amazing considering our history of being broken. damage is tuned a little bit lower then i would like, but i think a few classes are over performing which makes us look worse.

rets could use some passive protection against physical damage, i still don't understand the logic behind the Divine Protection change. it should still20% magic/20% physical, glyphable for 40% magic instead of the other way round because as it stands we only have active defenses against magic and zero passive defenses or defense against physical damage other the bubble/BoP.

i think damage reduction should also be backed back into RF to bring it in line with the tank stances of other tank capable hybrids even if it comes at a resource reduction cost.

Yeah, now try that with a warrior on you who basically can't be kited, and does as much sustained damage as two people; I did some 2s with a shadow priest a few days ago, and any decent warrior put out so much pressure that we had to heal with practically every global. As you pointed out, our survivability against physical damage is pathetic, and we're not that amazing against magic either. Even with 4pc we still make an excellent focus target in almost any comp and situation.

[kosechi]

Yeah, now try that with a warrior on you who basically can't be kited, and does as much sustained damage as two people; I did some 2s with a shadow priest a few days ago, and any decent warrior put out so much pressure that we had to heal with practically every global. As you pointed out, our survivability against physical damage is pathetic, and we're not that amazing against magic either. Even with 4pc we still make an excellent focus target in almost any comp and situation.

a. warriors are overtuned.
b. 2s.

[tavistra]

I think Ret should get some form of Holy Shock, but only as a linked ability with CS (as in, using one puts the other on cooldown). Ability might need to toned down for Ret, but main thing is to add one more HP generator at range on a short CD.

This would be a nice change for any range only periods (Atramedes air phase, etc) - with Harsh Words glyph we'd basically have a full rotation of ranged HP generating abilities and WoG finisher.

[Ikari]

I say make INQ 1 minute duration maybe (give us that extra one or two TVs instead of refresh), give TV a 5~% damage buff and make our t90 abilities generate 1 HoPo each maybe? I think that would help in both PVP and PVE without being too 'OP'. Classes shouldn't be tuned around set bonuses of any nature IMO. in b4 "Wait until 4pc! or 2pc is good l2p etc" arguments.