5.1 10 / 25 Seperate Lockouts

[mich125]

I read the first post i cant read the site due to chrome removing all text from the page when translated but there is no mention of the full translation edit of increased difficulty where are you pulling your quote from?

From my translation obviously sherlock.

[Arkenaw]

Still we have different raid lock in Wrath with 13 millions subs

And now same raid lock with something under 10 millions subs


Two different raid lock + better gear for 25 men = More Subs


so it could bring people back.

For those who are going to quit because if we have two different lock and better gear in 25 , send me your stuff, I am on Illidan-US

I highly doubt 3 million people quit because they changed the raid lock system.

[Seriss]

To the people wishing for 15 man raids only, I say screw you. As I personally don't want to raid 10 man or 15 man, I would like to keep my 25 man option thank you very much.

Those people are just tired of arguing and wish to look for a compromise. I bet most of them would be fine if only one side stopped belittling the other because they perceive encounter x as easier on raid size y. (And it goes BOTH ways, believe it or not.) And it's entirely possible that they're right with "This encounter is easier on XX" because of mechanics. But why make a big deal of it?

[Vasilisa]

So all casuals and kids, go 10man

Stop generalizing. A lot of 25 man have "kids" simply because "kids" have more free time to master their class. You'd be surprised if you'd actually check the real age of many raiders.

[Hyve]

YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.

I hate this change, because 10 & 25 Man are not harder or easier then each other. 10 Man comes with its own challenges, while 25 Man comes with its own also! As someone who has raided both 10 & 25 Heroic content in various patches and points of the game, I prefer 10 Man and I hated the view that I was a lesser raider because of it, during ICC.

10 Man is now on the same level as 25 Man. Some fights are easier, some are harder. The only reason ICC worked was because 10 Man was actually easier. Bosses had less health per player, and overall was designed to be easier. 10 & 25 today are designed to be on par, and they are!

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 11:48 AM ----------

So all casuals and kids, go 10man

So because I prefer a closer tight-knit group where my contribution to the fight is more pivotal then in a 25 Man Raid, I am a casual / kid? Nice logic there ...

[Shiki]

On the contrary. I absolutely agree with you that people are entitled to their opinion. Which is precisely my point. If 10s can look at 25s the way they do, 25s can look at 10s the way they do. And change the game as Blizzard may, the chips will ultimately fall as they will. And if the 25s today can't complain about the current state of the game, neither will the 10s' thoughts about the potential future of the game matter with regard to this change. Why? Because we are all equal.

First, only total asshats would ever try to say that 25man raiders can't complain. Second, you knew damn well several reasons why he probably didn't want this change to happen, yet you asked anyway.

Conclusion: You just want to fuck with people because you'll be happy about them being annoyed by this change.

[coldmn3]

the CN wow players do alot of ingame “economy”, they do raid and sell gears to those new to WOW since Wow is not so friendly to new players.(so called "Gold-Raid").
so the 10 / 25 Seperate Lockouts is what they want(old skilled players have things to do and get gold and more new players come to play wow).

[Xeraxis]

From my translation obviously sherlock.

Oh your translation. I'm sorry just because you want to believe something says what you want it to doesn't mean that's actually what it states.

[Deleted]

Stop generalizing. A lot of 25 man have "kids" simply because "kids" have more free time to master their class. You'd be surprised if you'd actually check the real age of many raiders.

Seriously now miss Vasilisa. Think again. 25 man gives more room for getting carried and mainly requires better ORGANIZATION, not individual skill. It's trickier from a raidleader PoV just because there are more people to manage.

[NetherVortex]

From my translation obviously sherlock.

IF for some reason your right about an increased difficulty for them, then i guess the reverse could be said that no non-korean kill matters if they have a higher difficulty cap... it would be like clearing a challenge mode vs clearing a heroic.

And if they did get a higher level of difficulty why is that screwing eu and us players and saying No sorry you dont get the increased challenge because your average player isnt as skilled as korean... im not sure what that is but it isnt right to remove us from the challenge based on an average.

[Moonfaxx]

First, only total asshats would ever try to say that 25man raiders can't complain. Second, you knew damn well several reasons why he probably didn't want this change to happen, yet you asked anyway.

Conclusion: You just want to fuck with people because you'll be happy about them being annoyed by this change.

Again, on the contrary. I despise trolls. And I agree with you that only total asshats would ever try to say that 25-man raiders can't complain. No, I didn't know why he would be pissed; that's why I asked.

Conclusion: Don't try to put words in people's mouths.

[Zharradan]

I did all the current normal mode fights on both difficulties and did most of cata on both, and I can say 10man are easier than 25man on almost every single fight out there

[Bluey111]

This would be insane. Once again forcing people to raid 10 and 25... It will lead to a loss of subscribers again. If people need incentives to do 25 man, they obviously dont like it, but are just lootwhores.

It isn't forcing anyone to do both, only the hardcore guilds

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 10:54 AM ----------

have you even read it?

"25 person raid dungeon difficulty has been increased, which will provide a higher level loot"

So all casuals and kids, go 10man

Paragon is casual?

[Deleted]

Why would you be pissed?

So you think it would just be fair that 25-man gets better loot than 10-man? Where's the logic in that?

[Moonfaxx]

So you think it would just be fair that 25-man gets better loot than 10-man? Where's the logic in that?

I didn't say that. But it does seem just that the reward is equal to the workload. Would you disagree with that?

[Shiki]

Again, on the contrary. I despise trolls. And I agree with you that only total asshats would ever try to say that 25-man raiders can't complain. No, I didn't know why he would be pissed; that's why I asked.

Conclusion: Don't try to put words in people's mouths.

You must be extremely new to this game if you had no idea why he would be pissed. Or you just open your mouth without thinking. Either way, the whole "hurr hurr you wont be forced to run both", and "lulz we work harder in 25man guilds" attitude is basically like pressing a "piss people off" button. And only total jerks, the completely oblivious, and trolls press that kind of button so readily.

[Xeraxis]

I didn't say that. But it does seem just that the reward is equal to the workload. Would you disagree with that?

In that case give us raid leaders of 25m's increased ilevel loot. My raiders don't do any extra work in a 25 than they do in a 10.

[Vasilisa]

Seriously now miss Vasilisa. Think again. 25 man gives more room for getting carried and mainly requires better ORGANIZATION, not individual skill. It's trickier from a raidleader PoV just because there are more people to manage.

On that I can agree. There is more room to slack then in 10 man guild and less depends on single person performance. And it's 10x more complex to manage then 10 man raiding guild. Still server top guilds won't allow slackers in their raids. And I would be grateful if you didn't start your presence here from insulting my intelligence. Thank you.

[Gum]

Why would you run 10 mans if you prefer 25 mans? I'll tell you why, because 10 mans are alot easier. That's why our 25 man raid broke up when they offered equivalent gear for running 10 mans. I dont understand why anyone can get away with claiming 10 mans are on the same level difficulty wise they just aren't.

No dude, stop telling yourself those lies. the reason your team broke up was because the good players were tired of carrying the bad players around in a 25man. They could down plenty more bosses on 10man, not because its easier, but because the skilllevel of the group increased by removing all the baddies they had to deal with in a 25man guild.. Its only natural. Same goes for when 10man guilds go for challenge modes, they bring their 5 best players to go for gold. There will always be someone that has to be the worst player in the group. Cutting him, while losing nothing in the process will yield you a better raid, no matter how you look at it. Thats exactly what going from 25->10 means. Nothing about it being easier or whatever youre trying to convince yourself its about, when you got told to gtfo, its most likely because you werent good enough to be carried in their 10man team.

[Moonfaxx]

You must be extremely new to this game if you had no idea why he would be pissed. Or you just open your mouth without thinking. Either way, the whole "hurr hurr you wont be forced to run both", and "lulz we work harder in 25man guilds" attitude is basically like pressing a "piss people off" button. And only total jerks, the completely oblivious, and trolls press that kind of button so readily.

Strange. Because I've been hearing that exact argument ("no one is forcing you to run 25s") from every 10-man raider with regards to the state of the current raid model. Which means if the prospective 10/25 change pisses 10-man raiders off... now you know how 25-man raiders have been feeling for a couple of years now. Now let's all sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya, because we all agree.