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  1. #121
    <Paragon> has shown how easy 10's is this tier, too. When exceptional players like themselves try 10's, they clear the majority on the first day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    I think this thread proves that in WotLK, not only has being bad and lazy become acceptable, but a defendable position and point of pride for some people.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Because the top 20 guilds are representative of a game of 10 million players?
    There is a neat little arrow on the bottom that lets you look at the other rankings. It even says next beside it. If you click it, an invisible wizard will show you the next page of ranks. It's pretty nifty.

    Go back to the Lion's Pride Inn.

  3. #123
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.

    Great, a step backwards....just like so much of MoP.

    People will feel forced to run 25s, not because they enjoy it, because they feel they must.

    back to unstable guilds,hard recruitment, endlessly running the same raid because you may get gear in 10 or 25....



    !0s were only "easier" because people overgeared them and ran them in 25man gear....
    Last edited by mmoc4e3ce29075; 2012-10-25 at 08:23 AM.

  4. #124
    Yet when you run the numbers for the personal DPS requirements a 25 man raider is required to do more DPS.

  5. #125
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    There is a neat little arrow on the bottom that lets you look at the other rankings. It even says next beside it. If you click it, an invisible wizard will show you the next page of ranks. It's pretty nifty.

    Go back to the Lion's Pride Inn.
    And most of the other rankings are 10 mans.

    How droll, a server-based attack. Like I've never heard that one before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    Yet when you run the numbers for the personal DPS requirements a 25 man raider is required to do more DPS.
    You also have every buff/debuff all the time. Managing to get all of them in a 10 man is a pain in the ass.

  7. #127
    An update: the 25-man raid will feature higher difficulty.

  8. #128
    Deleted
    Am i the only one who read the post that says its for KR players only?

    We now have needless argument over epeen of players of each side saying what they do is harder. A never ending argument with no real proof that either way is harder than the other.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Thus, the feeling of obligation to do 25s for the better gear. To say nothing of the drama when you have two competing 10 mans in a guild not able to get those last few raiders.
    I feel the same way about LFR. I hate it from the bottom of my heart and i still do it for upgrades.

    I tried going 25 man during Dragon soul, but that project fell apart due to logistics and the insane difference in difficult. Bring better loot for 25 man is the best way to keep people interested.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    You also have every buff/debuff all the time. Managing to get all of them in a 10 man is a pain in the ass.
    No it's not, and this is especially true since MoP. If you don't have everything you are doing something seriously wrong and it's your own goddamn fault.

  11. #131
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    I feel the same way about LFR. I hate it from the bottom of my heart and i still do it for upgrades.

    I tried going 25 man during Dragon soul, but that project fell apart due to logistics and the insane difference in difficult. Bring better loot for 25 man is the best way to keep people interested.
    Or just get rid of 10 and 25 mans and introduce 15 mans to level the playing field and end this bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And most of the other rankings are 10 mans.

    How droll, a server-based attack. Like I've never heard that one before.
    Most 10 man guilds have a roster of 10 players, most 25 man guilds have a roster of 30. On Sargeras we have five 25 man guilds on the first page. At 30 raiders each, that's 150 people. There is fifteen 10 man guilds in the top 20, that's 150 people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Or just get rid of 10 and 25 mans and introduce 15 mans to level the playing field and end this bullshit.
    While I think the rest of your opinions are stupid, this one is right on. I'm all for 15 man raiding.

  13. #133
    Woooo power to the 25m!

  14. #134
    Herald of the Titans Racthoh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    Yet when you run the numbers for the personal DPS requirements a 25 man raider is required to do more DPS.
    i think you mean the 25 man raider gets to do more dps.

  15. #135
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    I still don't get why 25 should get better loot. Sure it takes more people but it's a lot easier
    Nah, it's not easier. More people means more chances to screw up.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by lios View Post
    This would be insane. Once again forcing people to raid 10 and 25... It will lead to a loss of subscribers again. If people need incentives to do 25 man, they obviously dont like it, but are just lootwhores.
    You mean like in Wrath when subs were the highest the game has ever been.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Nah, it's not easier. More people means more chances to screw up.
    It also means less responsibility per person. One dps not pulling their weight can be easily counter weighted by the other dps.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    With respect to healers, 25-mans only have 250% more raiders than 10-mans, yet they variably have 200-300% as many healers. If you're group is running absolute minimum healers, you're going to have a harder time with healing from a numbers perspective; if your group is running with either typical or maximum number of healers the requisite numbers will be either the same or easier than 10-man difficulty. But the necessary number-pulling notwithstanding, that doesn't account for difficulties associated with timing and/or luls in activity (easier for 6 healers to handle tank spike damage than it is for 3, etc. etc.).

    Healer Summary: The average 25-man guild will have a much easier time healing than the average 10-man guild; whereas the 'hardcore' 25-man guild will magic have it slightly harder than the 10-man guild -- note, however, that the gap between the former and the latter reflect bringing 6 healers (former) and 4 healers (latter) meaning there is potential for both to slide to that magic number 5 which makes healing directly proportional to raid size when compared to 10-man.
    Your deliberately leaving out the fact that pretty much all abilities from bosses do MORE raid damage to MORE people in 25M raids. It's not the same amount of damage to heal back. It's more, in which sometimes that extra damage can 2-shot a tank, where in 10M it's not the same.

    Not to mention the fact that in 25M more people need to learn special assignments during the fight (more melee to learn how to "dance" @ Will of the Emperor, more setting up groups for soaking @ Ultraxion HC which you had to have special classes in those 3 groups that could take the 300k hit with cooldowns).

    They simply can't be compared. Every time we went 10M as a guild (we mainly raid 25M) for fun and giggles (during holidays, for example, when 25M raid is on break for us) we ALWAYS had an easier time in 10M than 25M. The last tier I remember being harder on 10M was T11. Anything else is a joke, maybe because we're more experienced, dunno...
    Educate the community: X-Perl is dead. Stop using it!

  19. #139
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    It also means less responsibility per person. One dps not pulling their weight can be easily counter weighted by the other dps.
    The fun times of carrying people....or the fun times of running a 25 man and -still- not being able to find a shaman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #140
    Bloodsail Admiral Berri's Avatar
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    Pleeeeeeease bring this to European realms!

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