5.1 Patch : 10 and 25 man seperate lockouts

[Karazee]

Oh yeah, no problem blizz.
Don't worry about EU and US.

God I wish we had sensible laws like most Asian countries.

Separating them would be amazing. Double transmog runs, and being able to be involved in 25 and 10 man raids like in Wrath.

If by amazing you actually mean terrible, then yes. Forced to run double the raids each week, worse gear in 10 man again... terrible, terrible change. Let's hope they do not do this in the US and EU.

[Sturmbringe]

It's five, going on six, years old.

My Intel Core 2 Extreme QX 9650 will be five (5) years old this November, being as it was originally manufactured in Nov 2007.

I can run 25 man raids and even 40 man raids (e.g. Sha) at STOCK speeds without my CPU being overclocked and with my GPU being UNERCLOCKED, I say again, UNDERCLOCKED, and while EVERY SINGLE VIDEO SETTING IS AT THE MAX POSSIBLE SETTING (ULTRA), so clearly you must be doing something wrong or playing on an Intel Celeron 1.8 GHz.

WoW is a very old game with a very old graphics engine and graphics wise, it's at least 2 years behind current mainstream games, so even Core 2 Duo users with overclocked CPU's should be more than capable of running 25 man raids and 40 man raids at ULTRA settings.

I really do hope we see this change ASAP in the EU, as Blizzard's failure to incentivize 25 man raiding was one of the prime causes why Blizzard lost 2 million subs last expansion.

[Karazee]

Wrath had so much more content because you could do every raid twice a week, once with guild, once with friends and/or pugs. (4 times for ToC LOL)

Running the same content 5 times doesn't equal more content.

[refire]

For anyone paying attention this shouldn't be seen as a shock. It will be happening on US and EU realms as well soon enough.

A. In short, we're not satisfied with the current status of 25-player raids. There are clear logistical challenges to sustaining a 25-player raiding group. It's inherently 2.5 times as much churn, and thus 2.5 times as much recruitment needed. In terms of actual encounter difficulty, while we haven't always succeeded, we feel that we can deliver on a comparable experience between the two modes: 10-player raiding often involves greater personal responsibility, while 25-player raiding is more complex on a macro level (more moving pieces). Even perfect tuning doesn't compensate for the logistical difficulties, though.

Our hope and intent when introducing the parallel 10/25 structure in Cataclysm was that people would be free to pick the raid size that they prefer, but I'll admit that in light of the organizational challenges of maintaining a 25-player roster, we may need a slightly larger incentive to make that choice a truly free and fair one. When you're the guild leader of a 25-player raid group, and you realize that you only have 21 people regularly showing up, it's much easier to just forge ahead in 10-player mode than it is to go through a fresh recruitment cycle to bolster your ranks. And if Mechanar taught us anything, it's that players will always take the path of least resistance when the rewards are equal. (Note that this doesn't mean that it's necessarily the most fun path or what players would choose in the absence of any outside forces pulling them one way or another.)

A small step we've taken to that end has been to increase the amount of loot dropped in 25-player Normal mode in 5.0 to 6 pieces per boss, matching the Heroic loot rate as it has stood in Cataclysm. That's something. But it's not a true solution to the problem. It's something we continue to discuss on a regular basis.

From the Reddit AMA. They don't like the hurdles 25 man has and they want to reward people for killing bosses with the same mechanics as 10, yet with 2.5x more of everything else involved in being successful in a raid.

[sanaubia]

one of the best times in wow when you could to 25 man and then after that you could go 10 man with friends and ppl who were only able to raid at night

[refire]

one of the best times in wow when you could to 25 man and then after that you could go 10 man with friends and ppl who were only able to raid at night

Agreed. For me personally it was 25s with the guild and some 10 mans on off days with my casual friends that didn't want to dedicate 4 days of the week to being in front of their computer. They gave me the chance to balance how much I wanted to play rather than them limiting how much I wanted to play. I would love to see this go back into the game.

[Deleted]

MoP seems to be taking steps in the right direction. Really nice for people who liked the tbc style.

[Shauni]

Personnaly, I would love to have 25 man raid back. But what I would be delighted to see is all the posters who claimed "Well, you do not have to raid 10 man if you don't want to, lol" when we where complaining about the fact we where forced to do 10 man will now complain that they are forced to run in 25 man now...

It may not happens, but I would love it. Yeah I am a sadist.

[Deleted]

So, before long, this will go live in EU/US too and I'll need to find a 25-man again so I can steamroll through 10-man heroic once more? Ok, getting right onto it.

Who is forcing your to steamroll 10-man heroics? You can continue doing strict 10 man (I hope achievements require you to not wear 25 man gear in 10 man) and just forget that 25 man even exists.

[Shauni]

Who is forcing your to steamroll 10-man heroics? You can continue doing strict 10 man (I hope achievements require you to not wear 25 man gear in 10 man) and just forget that 25 man even exists.

That's quite a good idea. If you wear 25 man's gear you are cheating. If it's not technically difficult to apply then it may solve some issues.

[Deleted]

If it's not technically difficult to apply then it may solve some issues.

They have the technology, there's an Ulduar achievement that requires all your gear to be below a certain ilvl.

[Drilnos]

Being a 10 man raider back when the lockouts were separate and all the good gear, mounts and legendaries only dropped in 25s felt like being a second class citizen. You couldn't even be proud of your progression in 10 man because of all the 25 man raiders getting 25 man gear and rolling through the 10 mans like Grant through Richmond. All I can say is I'm glad this cancer is currently contained in Korea, and hope it doesn't spread further.

[refire]

That's quite a good idea. If you wear 25 man's gear you are cheating. If it's not technically difficult to apply then it may solve some issues.

I would imagine achievements like Ulduar would make an appearance but that being the basis for every boss would be surprising and in many ways hypocritical. It would essentially be discouraging players from progressing in a new tier and going back to content that Blizzard spent time developing.

[jimlow]

I bet you blizzard is gonna put the hurt on these guys to make sure they don't do this. This was the reason ilevel got out of hand in WotLK because now your stuck with 4 ilevels difference per tier

10 man Normal
10 man Heroic
25 man Normal
25 man Heroic

which means come patch 5.2 your gonna start seeing all sorts of crazy inflation again which effects burst, which gimps fight, which messes with PVP which makes those players complain, and o GOD THE QQ

Blizzards decisions almost never get overturned save for few instances (RealID fourms change comes to mind) and part of the whole persistence world thing. If they do that just for the KR servers you can make the case that you really haven't "beaten the game" until you beat heroic 25 man on a KR server. But if they intend to do this to all the servers they effectively just retcon'ed their decisions for all of cata and mop thus far.

[Hinalover]

For those curious, The item level adjustment they are referring to is actually a fairly new technology. It's the same one that was implemented for testing in Beta as well as the one used for Challenge modes to bring character item level down to 463. So for them to implement it so that it increases the item level to X value is in there.

As for the discussion at hand, I applaud the change. Just keep in mind that this isn't the first time Blizzard was testing out an idea on the Korean servers first. During the end of Firelands, Blizzard tested the idea of having two raid lockouts a week in Korea. The idea was scrapped in the end in favor of Looking for Raid, but they are at least testing the ideas for 25-mans. If this does go through I would applaud Blizz. I much prefer the 25-man setting over the 10 man setting. Yes it means that many top-end guilds will force players to run both 10 and 25 man raids for the gear but only during the first month of raiding. Afterwards people will start not needing to run 10-mans and just drop it.

[Freedom]

Uhg, really? Part of me liked 25 mans, but in a tier with SIXTEEN bosses, running it twice a week is going to be a nightmare. And my guild just got Elegon to 4% yesterday after 1 shotting first 4 on Tuesday in an hour and spending another hour on Elegon, and we spent ~2.5 hrs on Elegon yesterday. I hope this is a joke, otherwise I'll either go casual again or "need" to raid 10s on the weekends, and I am already slated to run M/T/W/Th.... too much fucking raiding.

[Shimitsu]

It better stay on KR servers. There are not many things that would get me to stop playing this game, but this change would certainly be one of them.

[Spike`]

My Intel Core 2 Extreme QX 9650 will be five (5) years old this November, being as it was originally manufactured in Nov 2007.

I can run 25 man raids and even 40 man raids (e.g. Sha) at STOCK speeds without my CPU being overclocked and with my GPU being UNERCLOCKED, I say again, UNDERCLOCKED, and while EVERY SINGLE VIDEO SETTING IS AT THE MAX POSSIBLE SETTING (ULTRA), so clearly you must be doing something wrong or playing on an Intel Celeron 1.8 GHz.

WoW is a very old game with a very old graphics engine and graphics wise, it's at least 2 years behind current mainstream games, so even Core 2 Duo users with overclocked CPU's should be more than capable of running 25 man raids and 40 man raids at ULTRA settings.

I really do hope we see this change ASAP in the EU, as Blizzard's failure to incentivize 25 man raiding was one of the prime causes why Blizzard lost 2 million subs last expansion.

i have a core2duo e6400 2.1@2.7, 6gb ram, ati 6870 and in 25 man i only have 17-25fps

looked around and it seems that for a duo core its the standard frames in 25 man, so ya now wow require way more cpu power

[Deleted]

It better stay on KR servers. There are not many things that would get me to stop playing this game, but this change would certainly be one of them.

You'd quit over this? What's so bad about it? I think it's a good idea, more things to do for people who have the time. And, for people who don't have the time, you can just continue doing exactly what you're doing right now and not even be affected by it. Stop making such a big deal out of something that doesn't even affect you.

[Gurbz]

You'd quit over this? What's so bad about it? I think it's a good idea, more things to do for people who have the time. And, for people who don't have the time, you can just continue doing exactly what you're doing right now and not even be affected by it. Stop making such a big deal out of something that doesn't even affect you.

The problem is that this would massively effect people who prefer 10-man raids. It would immediately bring back the situation where people are "forced" to run 25s because of the better gear. Basically the raiding scene would go back to WotLK. While I wouldn't be upset, as I prefer 25s, it is perfectly understandable that those who prefer 10s would be pissed if this goes through.

There has got to be something not being communicated correctly. Or it is only for Korean server. I cannot see the logic in making a change THIS large not only in the middle of an expansion but also in the middle of a tier or raiding. Guess we will have to wait until one of the other Blues from the US/EU comments on it.