5.1 Patch : 10 and 25 man seperate lockouts

[Shuttle]

Bring this to the US realms, 10 mans are beyond jokes.

[refire]

The problem is that this would massively effect people who prefer 10-man raids. It would immediately bring back the situation where people are "forced" to run 25s because of the better gear. Basically the raiding scene would go back to WotLK. While I wouldn't be upset, as I prefer 25s, it is perfectly understandable that those who prefer 10s would be pissed if this goes through.

There has got to be something not being communicated correctly. Or it is only for Korean server. I cannot see the logic in making a change THIS large not only in the middle of an expansion but also in the middle of a tier or raiding. Guess we will have to wait until one of the other Blues from the US/EU comments on it.

Why? What is the point of the better gear if it's not needed to progress on your content?

[Dvaldin]

If they want to increase 25-mans again, the only way to really do it is by making the loot iLvl's better AND keep them on the same lockout as 10-mans.

I bet that implementing it on Korea lives is a test to see how it goes over. If it works, it'll be implemented in other regions as well.

I'm for the better loot, but think it's a huge mistake to separate the lockouts.

[Wikko]

What the fuck is this. I've been wanting this to come back ever since they decided to change it and now they will only change it back for Asia? Dafuq Blizzard

[roahn the warlock]

seperate 10 and 25 was awesome imo. EXCEPT for the fact that 5 people always got screwed.

[Farabee]

I missed this in Wrath. Wouldn't mind doing 25s again if they brought back seperate lockouts, right now there's just no point when 10 is easier to manage and gets same loot.

[Tehterokkar]

My Intel Core 2 Extreme QX 9650 will be five (5) years old this November, being as it was originally manufactured in Nov 2007.

I can run 25 man raids and even 40 man raids (e.g. Sha) at STOCK speeds without my CPU being overclocked and with my GPU being UNERCLOCKED, I say again, UNDERCLOCKED, and while EVERY SINGLE VIDEO SETTING IS AT THE MAX POSSIBLE SETTING (ULTRA), so clearly you must be doing something wrong or playing on an Intel Celeron 1.8 GHz.

WoW is a very old game with a very old graphics engine and graphics wise, it's at least 2 years behind current mainstream games, so even Core 2 Duo users with overclocked CPU's should be more than capable of running 25 man raids and 40 man raids at ULTRA settings.

I really do hope we see this change ASAP in the EU, as Blizzard's failure to incentivize 25 man raiding was one of the prime causes why Blizzard lost 2 million subs last expansion.

It's this guy again, with his trolling.... give up

[Gurbz]

Why? What is the point of the better gear if it's not needed to progress on your content?

I'm sorry but that is like saying what is the point of getting a raise if you can already pay your bills.

Players will always gravitate to the greatest reward they believe they can achieve, regardless of how much they hate the process of getting that reward or if it is truly required. The daily rep grind to unlock valor gear is perfect proof of this. No raider truly needs it. They have access to better gear from raids. No non-raider needs it. Their content requires significantly less powerful gear to complete. Yet both groups will do it because people like getting stronger even if they are already strong enough to get by.

Unless Blizzard increases the overall encounter difficulty relative to 10-man (and it would have to be a more significant jump than the iLvl would indicate, like the difference going from Normal to Heroic raids now) then players will always choose having more power over anything else. That is why in Wrath, when players had the exact same choice, there were massively more 25-man guilds than 10 man guilds.

[refire]

I'm sorry but that is like saying what is the point of getting a raise if you can already pay your bills.

No, I can buy nicer things and thus my bills would raise to be more in line with my new income. I could invest more, I could save more, there is some bonus to that money other than paying bills. In that analogy I get X and you're saying the only outcome of X is Y and thus anything over Y is a waste when in reality there is A-Z as possible outcomes as well. The same cannot be said for loot. The only purpose of loot from the current tier is to kill bosses. It's a direct correlation from X to Y every time and if 10 man is tuned to 10 man loot then your argument completely crumbles.

[Thelxi]

Wow. I don't even know what to say.

[Deleted]

I actually find the idea of "Herald of the Titans" pretty good, if they bring back the seperate lockouts & loots but add a title / achievement for people who prefer 10 man and equally deserve the title.

[Quarts]

MoP seems to be taking steps in the right direction. Really nice for people who liked the tbc style.

Wat.

Refresh my memory on the amazing experience of 25-man Karazhan, 10-man Black Temple and 10-man Sunwell. I'm 90% sure you don't know what TBC raids were like.

But, yeah, separate them. I'm on the verge of just finding a casual 10-man guild because there's no reason to run 25-mans. Shared lockouts make me a sad panda.

[Gurbz]

No, I can buy nicer things and thus my bills would raise to be more in line with my new income. I could invest more, I could save more, there is some bonus to that money other than paying bills. In that analogy I get X and you're saying the only outcome of X is Y and thus anything over Y is a waste when in reality there is A-Z as possible outcomes as well. The same cannot be said for loot. The only purpose of loot from the current tier is to kill bosses. It's a direct correlation from X to Y every time and if 10 man is tuned to 10 man loot then your argument completely crumbles.

With higher iLvl gear I could kill bosses faster. I could complete dailies in less time, freeing me up to do other things, in-game or not. Farming profession materials is quicker and easier. So how is my analogy any different?

I am not making up a subjective opinion of what players will do. I can confidently say what will happen because it happened before. All anyone has to do is look at the raiding scene in Wrath. That is exactly what this brings back, and almost nobody did 10-mans because the gear was better in 25s. So if you bring back that environment, the player response to said environment will be the same.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

10 man offers too attractive of an alternative for those searching for the easy way out in downing bosses and acquiring gear. It's what's killing 25 mans, and separating the lockouts will hopefully do well in KR enough that they'll bring them to NA/EU.

[Deleted]

There is nothing that justifies a need for 25s to get higher ilvl loot than 10s, thats just stupid and I hope Blizzard doesnt go full retard and apply this on EU/US. I find it strange enough they even considered it for KR. And for all you out there who says "10s is the easy way out 25s is the real deal trololol" have it ever occured to you people play 10s because they like it, similar to people playing in 25s because they prefer so. Really stupid Blizzard.

[Kharli]

WTB this on US servers right about now plzkthx.

Wrath had so much more content because you could do every raid twice a week, once with guild, once with friends and/or pugs. (4 times for ToC LOL)

---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 05:11 PM ----------



Stay competitive? Unless you're top 10 world, you're not competing, you're not being forced to do any extra content, so what are you complaining about? More content = Better for the game.

*stares at with a cricket bat* doing the SAME RAID TWO TIMES IS NOT MORE CONTENT, ITS THE SAME CONTENT with more/less people.
it IS NOT MORE CONTENT.
*leaves thread, for now*

[Marmot]

Korean players have different play styles, thus the changes. We won't see this coming in EU and US, it will cause too much outrage from the vast majority of people who raid 10 man.

[Deleted]

Would give raiders more things to do in the weekends with casual friends ect, really nice move.

[Pasture]

I'm not necessarily against the separate lockouts (though of course people will be forced to run both for progression) but I don't like the higher ilevel gear. It doesn't just make 25 mans more attractive. It makes them compulsory if you want the best out of your character. In a game where 25 mans have fallen massively out of favour due to the headaches involved in keeping a raid group that big together this is not a sensible move.

[Gurbz]

I'm not necessarily against the separate lockouts (though of course people will be forced to run both for progression) but I don't like the higher ilevel gear. It doesn't just make 25 mans more attractive. It makes them compulsory if you want the best out of your character. In a game where 25 mans have fallen massively out of favour due to the headaches involved in keeping a raid group that big together this is not a sensible move.

Thats one of the reasons why I think, much like the twice-a-week raid resets in Firelands, this will be for Korea only, and possibly only until the next raid tier comes out.