Elagon - When to lust?

[Yoshimiko]

Me and some friends were disagreeing on something.

I say we should Lust on Draw Power to get 2 more orb kills(thus 20% more dps throughout the rest of the fight)

They say we should lust in the final phase...

I think dealing 20% more damage on all attacks is more valuable than 35% more haste for 45 seconds in the last 2 minutes of the fight. I'd love to hear others opinions though - What do you do on Elagon?

[Cyriaa]

Last phase. Lust isn't really there for the DPS if you ask me, it's more for the healers. There's a lot of damage going out in that phase, that healers won't be able to keep up with for very long before running oom.

[Deleted]

you dont need the lust for the orbs. everyone should be able to kill 4 easily

[Yoshimiko]

you dont need the lust for the orbs. everyone should be able to kill 4 easily

The idea was to lust after the 4th set dies, and kill 2-3 more sets for 30% more damage through the rest of the fight.

But if it's for the healers I guess this is moot.

[Durahal]

Should be lusting after 2nd spark/pillar phase (the burn phase), this is when Elegon will have the most stacks, so you will receive maximum benefit. It will also help out your healers a fair bit in addition.

[Deja Thoris]

Last phase. Lust isn't really there for the DPS if you ask me, it's more for the healers. There's a lot of damage going out in that phase, that healers won't be able to keep up with for very long before running oom.

An extra 20% on the boss in the last phase would make him fall over really fast too though so it would allow the healers to be more free with their mana.

Convention says lust in the last phase, your idea may have merit though. To be honest the conventional way is probably more idiot proof. If you blow lust and only manage one extra set of adds then its a wasted lust. If it works I'm sure its pretty viable but I'd hate to get 6 minutes into a fight, waste a lust and then wipe because of it.

[Floross]

Too much target switch ( wasted hero ) and lots of overkill damage if you use hero/bloodlust during sparks(charges). Still best to use during burn phase.

[Deleted]

Too much target switch ( wasted hero ) and lots of overkill damage if you use hero/bloodlust during sparks(charges). Still best to use during burn phase.

What he said ^

Things can still go wrong even with bl on, and the 6 orbs goes really fast.

The lust is usually needed to top everyone/hot everyone with an extra tick up on the last phase, and makes it almost impossible to die there (aslong as you have 4-4 stacks, dont suck at the adds in P3 and do somewhat of a good raid cooldown)

Getting 2 more stacks on the boss will only get you 1 less add in P1, and that phase isn't really hard anyways. More dps would be gained from just attacking the boss instead of all the target switching.

[Alwayzdead]

ya dps should get orbs down easily, even though my raid is having problem with the orbs, the orbs that have 3 dps on them is hitting while, my orb which only have a boomkin and i get it down when it reaches half way, so if you need to get the orb down by using hero there is something wrong with your dps

[Cyriaa]

Not to mention, the raid takes a ton of damage when those sparks die, if you're two healing it (which I believe most guilds are) then your healers may not be able to keep everybody up fast enough and still have mana for the last phase, the haste from lust for healers is going to be quite a lot and really helps getting ppl up. Also it seems as though each wave does increasing damage when they die. I can't say for sure really cuz it could just be my raiders having more stacks for whatever reason and we haven't really pushed anything past 5-5.

[danightryder]

lust as soon as soon as the last phase starts and all the crazy damage is going out, we 2 healed it, druid/shaman. They both go into last phase at least 75% mana from telluric currents (shaman) helping dpsing the adds and the druid is being fed innervate from our druid tank his own our shadow priest mana hymn and resto shaman's mana tide totem. As the floor come back active, we pop lust, finish off the adds and wreck the boss, all our dps trys to hold cool downs for that last phase because it's really healing intensive and a dps race.

[Aeiri]

Last phase. You don't need to kill that many orb phases. Our first normal kill we killed 2 sets of orbs the first time and 4 the second for a total of 6. So we were missing 30% damage done to him from the get go and still beat enrage just fine. If you can kill 4-4 you are more than good to kill the boss unless your raiders are afk auto attacking.

[ananoon]

Doing two more sets of orbs is not 20% more damage. Each draw power adds 10%, so depending on how many you guys are doing to begin with, each additional set will be less than 10% overall damage. For example, if you're killing 4 each time, you get 10 draw powers, increasing damage to the boss by 100%. If lusting during one of the orb phases allows you to get two more draw powers, that's a 20% increase when you already have 200% damage on the boss, making it 220%. The extra orbs you got down are only giving you 10% overall increase. Essentially, there's diminishing returns in doing more orbs. Furthermore, extending each phase 2 by doing more orbs gets, you closer to the enrage timer, and it's likely you the increased damage in the last phase will not make up for the time lost dpsing orbs.

Lust increases raid dps by quite a bit, almost doubling it. Wasting it on p2 is most likely a big a dps loss on the boss, even if you get two more draw powers.

On a side note, doing more orbs in the first p2 is more important than the second one, since you're dpsing the boss for longer with his stacks higher after that phase (similar to how Zon'ozz works).

[Kisho]

Yeah, definitely used during final phase. The idea of getting extra stacks has merit, but overall just not worth it.

[Deleted]

As others said, in the last phase. Last week we killed 5 sets of orbs each phase so it's not really hard to do and there is no real point in lusting for that.

I think the DPS is higher in the last phase with lust even though you kill 2 less orb sets.

[dennisdkramer]

Doing two more sets of orbs is not 20% more damage. Each draw power adds 10%, so depending on how many you guys are doing to begin with, each additional set will be less than 10% overall damage. For example, if you're killing 4 each time, you get 10 draw powers, increasing damage to the boss by 100%. If lusting during one of the orb phases allows you to get two more draw powers, that's a 20% increase when you already have 200% damage on the boss, making it 220%. The extra orbs you got down are only giving you 10% overall increase. Essentially, there's diminishing returns in doing more orbs. Furthermore, extending each phase 2 by doing more orbs gets, you closer to the enrage timer, and it's likely you the increased damage in the last phase will not make up for the time lost dpsing orbs.

sort of. each orb adds 10% more of your unmodified damage so while doing another orb is not 10% more than you were doing with one less orb, it is still adding the same amount of damage each orb. If it were not like this you would see exponential gains from killing orbs. The ratio of draw powers to damage is linear. However, as it becomes more difficult to kill them, the ratio of 'how much effort to kill another wave' to 'how much damage gained' does suffer some theoretical diminishing returns. This is especially clear when you consider damage over time - the orbs move so fast at a point that even DoT abilities applied immediately will not have time to tick out, constituting an overall dps loss as the DPCT of that spell is severely reduced.

Lust increases raid dps by quite a bit, almost doubling it. Wasting it on p2 is most likely a big a dps loss on the boss, even if you get two more draw powers.

lust seems like it increases raid dps by that much because it is optimal for all dps to use + and % damage cooldowns during lust. the lust itself (and similar haste cooldowns) will increase damage by a little bit less (for most classes) than the percent speed increase that the buff gives. For some classes that might pass the GCD cap or for whom mana is an issue, its even less of an increase than that. For ferals for example, haste doesnt increase the tick speed of bleeds or the speed of the GCD, it just increases autoattack speed and energy regen. Since we're likely to be berserking lust brings us dangerously close to energy capping, and ferals who don't cap hit/exp will often energy cap during zerk/lust no matter what they do. **all this info is not relevant to the analysis of lust use on elegon, just nitpicking your comment.

On a side note, doing more orbs in the first p2 is more important than the second one, since you're dpsing the boss for longer with his stacks higher after that phase (similar to how Zon'ozz works).

completely true



My comment to the OP is this: your mileage may vary with lots of different strategies, just as each raid member's mileage may vary with popping cooldowns at certain times. Specific to my raid, its not actually the last phase that we found overly difficult, it was getting down the celestial spark adds in the transition into the phase. For this reason I tend to pop personal cooldowns, get some damage into the adds and then hop to the boss as soon as the adds look like they're no longer a significant threat to the tanks.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Imo its not worth getting extra stacks(more then 4-5, depends how many can you handle without lust) and you should rather do as much dmg to boss after 4th or 5th...