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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I will say that i agree with the lack of character connection, idk why but i just don't feel my sylvari as much as i did my ranger in GW1 or other characters in RPGs... than again, my human mesmer i -do- have connections with, so idk how that works...
    I think that has more to do with how the story was told in GW1 and how your character was connected to it. The mission style system in GW1 is superior to how the story is told in GW2.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I think that has more to do with how the story was told in GW1 and how your character was connected to it. The mission style system in GW1 is superior to how the story is told in GW2.
    I felt a lot of attachment with my characters and how the story played out in Prophecies/Factions that even with amgKormir in Nightfall I didn't really mind it (my problem with Nightfall was "So for this ultra abandoned god that's had his name wiped from history, it seems everyone knows a lot about him").

    Trahearne didn't really give me that opportunity. At all. If it was Destiny's Edge, I could understand, because you're making bonds alongside one of the members right from the very beginning. Trahearne... him, more than anything else, is why I feel the story fell flat on its face (more than the Mission Based vs. whatever this was based).
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  3. #463
    Well I agree Kel. I should have added that in GW1 the story was about you (except for Kormir in Nightfall, which seems to be how GW2 did their story in a similar fashion). It provided a better connection to your character.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I think that has more to do with how the story was told in GW1 and how your character was connected to it. The mission style system in GW1 is superior to how the story is told in GW2.
    The story forces a voice and personality onto your character, with zero choice from the player. It basically said THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU FEEL, AND HOW YOU REACT ... which, in an RPG, defeats the purpose. Now on top of that, remove class roles, unique class flavor spells/abilities, unique class quests, factions, and all reputation systems and what you have is a disaster RPG. It just hasn't been working for me, sadly.

  5. #465
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    The story forces a voice and personality onto your character, with zero choice from the player. It basically said THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU FEEL, AND HOW YOU REACT ... which, in an RPG, defeats the purpose. Now on top of that, remove class roles, unique class flavor spells/abilities, unique class quests, factions, and all reputation systems and what you have is a disaster RPG. It just hasn't been working for me, sadly.
    I agreed with your post until you started saying GW2 removed everything... i play a support role on my ranger, and the amount of support i do is VERY apparent to me -especially- when i play my engineer who is designed to just kill everything and "fuck supporting/controlling!" significantly different playstyle and role...

    However i do agree with the voice thing, that's one reason i don't think i can stand my sylvari, because despite the fact i picked some options i would've done the way he reacted to it was a lot different, whereas with my human he's closer to how i have built his character...

    But that being said, NO rpg gives you any different voice unless you blatantly ignore the quests, ESPECIALLY games like SWTOR where a lot of your "options" are 3 things that do the exact same thing and are worded very similarly. And as kel said, both me and her (as shown from her post) related with our characters from GW1 more and they all had set voices too. However, i -really- enjoyed Nightfall and that was where i felt most of the bond with my character form (granted it was formed already in factions and prophecies).
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #466
    I don't mind having set voices. Sure it would be nice to be able to pick your voice but to me it beats not having a voice. Even though I love Skyrim it was a little jarring to me when my character didn't speak.

    I don't really agree with Jibjubs criteria for an rpg but that's not really the topic here (I'll just add that in my opinion, mmos make terrible RPG's).

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    The story forces a voice and personality onto your character, with zero choice from the player. It basically said THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU FEEL, AND HOW YOU REACT ... which, in an RPG, defeats the purpose. Now on top of that, remove class roles, unique class flavor spells/abilities, unique class quests, factions, and all reputation systems and what you have is a disaster RPG. It just hasn't been working for me, sadly.
    If you've ever played any of the Tales games, they are RPGs that have a clearly linear and defined story. From a narrative point of view, I would hardly say it defeats the purpose (especially with how well Tales of Symphonia and Tales of the Abyss were recieved, beautiful beautiful games). There are a lot of unique class flavor spells through utility and elites (as well as the F-keys) in Guild Wars 2, enough for me personally to feel the difference when I'm playing my Mesmer alongside a Guardian or if that's an Elementalist.

    Class Quests is something that takes a lot of time for very very little benefit. A lot of people blow over them and don't remember them later down the road (learn how to resurrect as a Priest! Here's your voidwalker as a Warlock), and the truly big ones that do have an impact leave anyone NOT playing said Class/Profession out in the dirt (Benediction/Anathema comes to mind very quickly).

    Factions can and do work, but the two-faction split thing is arbitrary and often feels dated just for the sake of potentially initiating player combat (but then ignoring it in PvE only servers?). It splits a community for little-to-no reason other than "It worked before guys". Often just creating animosity because one side is blue and the other side is red and they're supposed to hate eachother.

    I'm not saying Guild Wars has done everything right, because it hasn't come even close. But... there are reasons for some of the design decisions that they chose, some of them when a person takes a step back to rationally look at it, make a lot of sense and weren't (or shouldn't have been) headed towards the "disaster RPG".

    Though I do feel sad that your experience with it wasn't enjoyable. Perhaps you will find such a game that is suited to your tastes, just like I'm still looking for mine?
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  8. #468
    I need to clarify -- when I say "voice" I do not mean just the tone and timbre of the voice acting (that is just part of it). I mean Voice, with a capital V ... I am told exactly who my character is and what he is about. All choice is superficial to the point of insult - it would be WAY better to not offer the choice at all if they are of no consequence.

    It's a brand new game (feels like it's still in beta) so I trust ANet will work everything out. Right now, for me, it's a pretty bad game wrapped in a good game package.

  9. #469
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    I need to clarify -- when I say "voice" I do not mean just the tone and timbre of the voice acting (that is just part of it). I mean Voice, with a capital V ... I am told exactly who my character is and what he is about. All choice is superficial to the point of insult - it would be WAY better to not offer the choice at all if they are of no consequence.

    It's a brand new game (feels like it's still in beta) so I trust ANet will work everything out. Right now, for me, it's a pretty bad game wrapped in a good game package.
    I felt i had a fair amount of choice, especially with some of the dialogue options (which turn out to actually have an impact) for example, i was able to sweet talk my way out of 5 fights my friend actually had to do in his storyline, one of them i turned the big bad villain into a big baby crying about how all the other bandits picked on him and how he really didn't wanna do it... that was a fun one lol
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  10. #470
    I miss my ritualist

    :'(

    I will command the spirits of the dead to STEAL UR SOOOOUUUULLL

  11. #471
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I miss my ritualist

    :'(

    I will command the spirits of the dead to STEAL UR SOOOOUUUULLL
    not gonna lie, not surprised rit and derv didn't make it in GW2 because they're -probably- waiting for the cantha and elona expansions to release them.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  12. #472
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    1 thing I wish GW2 had was Trinity than its PvE would be amazing & mouth watering.
    I don't always hunt things, But when I do, It's because they're things & I'm a Bear.


  13. #473
    I think this is the actual problem of Guild Wars 2 PVE: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...ent_meta_game/

    The game is just like super shallow. At a certain point it's just a sight seeing tour. Which isn't bad but le meh.

  14. #474
    I think if all professions had the healing and/or 'tanking' ability of Guardians by sacrificing a huge chunk of damage among other things, dungeons would be a bit more interesting. When I'm in a dungeon I feel that I'm making a huge contribution by healing stupid amounts and blocking attacks as much as I can. I don't feel the same way when I play any other profession.
    I like not having a proper trinity, but I still think there should be a bit more obvious emphasis on 'support' roles.

  15. #475
    I can see the argument of people not relating to their character flavor and story wise, however in my opinion, this disconnect is mostly caused by the gameplay, not -just- the story and lore.

    The lack of significant and defining customization, the lack of impactful signature/iconic moves, the requirement and repetitiveness of dodging as every class.

    Granted plenty of other games have problems have this kind of problem, however a game like WoW compensates by having a "brilliant" PvE, differentiation through gears (look at my gearscore everyone!!), and things like that. For some reasons, it is more difficult to forgive those mistakes in a game like GW2 than in a game like WoW...

    @nevermore

    Not even the support roles, there need to be roles in the first place!! Even the braindead role of DPS is absent in GW2!! There are no enrages, no dps checks, no burn phase, nada! As plenty have said in this thread (and outside of it) everyone is some kind of dps with no real way to make your dps matter...

    The only role that isn't in a terrible situation in this game is support, but mostly because of the weird definition of support Anet has. An anecdote about that: I remember when Anet was doing the first streams of GW2 (during the stress tests or something like that) I was in their streams spamming them a simple question (I was also spamming them to make sure the game would have the equivalent of WoW PvE or else they would be screwed..., yep at the time I was convinced GW2 needed raids or it would tank):

    "Will Thief be able to support?"

    Now some background on that question, I have always been a fan of the Thief/Rogue archetype, I play it in every game I can and I love it! However I also am a fan of the healing (and lament every day the dullness of the role in most games), and that thanks to my Priest in WoW (first time I rolled a healer type in any game).
    My dream class would be a rogue capable of healing! The Bard in Rift would have been the perfect class for me if it didn't suck so much 1v1 and healing wise...

    Anyway,
    The thing is when I asked the question I was actually asking if I would be able to be a "healer"-y type through a Thief...
    The guy from Anet answered 'yes', but what he clearly had in mind was "you will be able to CC people, buff them with stealth, and rez them while doing terrible HPS".

    I can imagine the same kind of disconnect happening with people expecting the Control side of Anet trinity to be where tanks were supposed to fit in...

    If they getting rid of the trinity enable them to achieve more role variety, then removing it was the right thing to do... But if all it does is destroy any kind of possible role or customization, whats the freaking point??

    In a way, right now and according to Anet standards, everyone is a weak Support. Controlling and Damage are meaningless, and worse you can't even be a good support compared to the way it is done in other games (you feel like a god when you enter a BG in WoW as a healer).

    Guardians are so popular right now because they are essentially the only class where you can push the Support side of your character to the limit, where other classes are lost in a maze of pseudo-damage and controller...

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I think this is the actual problem of Guild Wars 2 PVE: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...ent_meta_game/

    The game is just like super shallow. At a certain point it's just a sight seeing tour. Which isn't bad but le meh.
    Pretty much this.
    I enjoyed leveling up my first 2 characters. But after having done map completion, craft myself an exotic set, Give it the Masquerade look(in black/red). There wasnt really anything left to do. I went through all instances once in story mode, some in exploration mode but I wasnt enjoying them. There are just to little mechanics. Yeah some traps and so on in the instances are great, but when it comes to battles its always. Autoattack--> run away--> autoattack.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I think this is the actual problem of Guild Wars 2 PVE: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...ent_meta_game/

    The game is just like super shallow. At a certain point it's just a sight seeing tour. Which isn't bad but le meh.
    This is due to their attempt at making the game more social ... and in fact making it less social. Sure you it's ALWAYS cooperative, but in the same turn it requires zero communication. People just show up, spam on the same mobs, maybe rez (maybe say thank you or you're welcome) and then disperse. Maybe not ANet's fault ... maybe it is.

  18. #478
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    This is due to their attempt at making the game more social ... and in fact making it less social. Sure you it's ALWAYS cooperative, but in the same turn it requires zero communication. People just show up, spam on the same mobs, maybe rez (maybe say thank you or you're welcome) and then disperse. Maybe not ANet's fault ... maybe it is.
    that's not anets fault, it's the fault of the community, that being said though, on the days i don't get much time to play i don't really type to people and just go, because the more time i spend typing the less time i get to spend playing the game, so maybe a few other people have this too? On days where i get the luxury of large amounts of game time i'm one of the few people in my guild online (not very many people are up at 2am...there are some, but not many) so i just talk to everyone in map chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    This is due to their attempt at making the game more social ... and in fact making it less social. Sure you it's ALWAYS cooperative, but in the same turn it requires zero communication. People just show up, spam on the same mobs, maybe rez (maybe say thank you or you're welcome) and then disperse. Maybe not ANet's fault ... maybe it is.
    Yea, I felt that way in beta through current. GW2 kinda has this weird anonymous/empty feeling.

    Or as my sister said in BWE1: "It feels like everyone is soloing next to each other."

    Think that's true for all PVE content. When we cleared the dungeons it seemed to hardly matter that the other 4 people were there. The importance & dependance on others is like totally inconsequential.

    Like the only time we needed to party up in the world was to game the loot system while AFK farming events. That was like the only time our guild worked to together- to mindlessly farm zombie waves for 4-5 hours a day.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    that's not anets fault, it's the fault of the community, that being said though, on the days i don't get much time to play i don't really type to people and just go, because the more time i spend typing the less time i get to spend playing the game, so maybe a few other people have this too? On days where i get the luxury of large amounts of game time i'm one of the few people in my guild online (not very many people are up at 2am...there are some, but not many) so i just talk to everyone in map chat.
    See Fencers post above -- but I think a fair amount of blame should be placed on both parties. If you design a game where team-play is inconsequential and communication is unnecessary, then you can't fault the community for not playing as a team or communicating. In their attempt to remove that "competitive" edge, Anet has landed too far on the other extreme (though I admit it'd be a hard balance to strike). I have seen people run by while I am fighting, hit the mobs once for credit and then run off and onward, without a word. Granted, leveling in many other MMOs isn't exactly like an office potluck party ... but I feel like in both EQ and WoW (my major MMO experiences, except Horizons, which was renamed and really pushed the idea of being a playable dragon, which was awful) both had more social interaction other than guild chat. Anecdotal, sure, but it's all on which I can base my HARSH JUDGEMENTS

    "It feels like everyone is soloing next to each other."
    I love this by the way. So true. Also, perhaps apropos of nothing, is it just me or is weird that emotes aren't AT somebody? Or am I doing it wrong. When I target someone and /cheer or /wave, it doesn't say "waves AT so-and-so" ... it just says I wave.
    Last edited by Jibjub; 2012-12-10 at 04:55 PM.

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