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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by casually View Post
    if you desperatly need him, keep him but bump him down to the lowest on loot priority.
    Tell me why it is he should continue raiding with them if he's on the lowest loot priority? It sounds like he disputed what was a bad call. It also sounds like, dispute or not, it'd have been a wipe due to said call. I've called over raid leaders in the past who've made bad calls, and we've downed the boss because of it. The raid leaders didn't sulk about this, they thanked me for picking up the error fast enough to save a wipe.

    If you're supposed to be working together, you should be taking people's input on board. If you make a mistake, someone moves to corrects it, and then you react towards them in a hostile manner, I don't blame the guy for bailing.

  2. #62
    Immortal clevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    The Other Side of Azeroth
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Tell me why it is he should continue raiding with them if he's on the lowest loot priority? It sounds like he disputed what was a bad call.
    BZZZT! Wrong. The OP says nothing about it being a bad call... that's your imagination:
    About a week ago my co-raid leader made a call during a boss encounter, and this particular raider called out over Teamspeak to do the direct opposite. This caused confusion for some of the other raiders as they didn't know what to do (let's not get into trying to get people to only ever listen to the RL). That confusion caused a wipe, and people were not too happy.
    Want to raid lead and make the decisions? Then signup and be a raid leader. Otherwise shut up during runs.

  3. #63
    You should have gkicked him on the spot to set the precedent for similar future behavior. If you are serious about raiding, then you should have zero tolerance for rage-quitting during a raid, especially if the person is at fault about the issue that they are rage-quitting about!

    In general, the first step should be direct, honest confrontation. If that doesn't work, as in your case, then remove them from your raiding team and replace them. Keeping around people like that is disrespectful to the rest of the team.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolkaysea View Post
    it's a doggy dog world, and pre-madonna raiders are a diamond dozen for all intensive purposes
    Golden. Just golden.

  5. #65
    Pandaren Monk Banzhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    I'm pretty sure if you talk with your entire squad and lay down the line taken during raids they will all agree. (As you said they're opinions count)

    Having one player turn an environment toxic is not good for anything, it quickly spreads and will cause more impact on progression then removing one bad apple. While recruitment might not always be easy, I'm positive someone amongst your raiders will know a player who can either fill in while finding a replacement, or perhaps even someone making a good addition to your team.

    Not knowing the background on the player in question, or your guilds history when it comes to dealing with this particular issue (maybe it's something new to you which would be great), if you do decide to take him aside for a private talk, make sure that whatever consequence you decide will come if it happens again, you follow through on it..!

    As others have already said though, login off mid-raid due to emo would also have lead to a removal from the roster in my guild regardless of performance or how long the person had been in the guild.., that's why guild guidelines are good to have in place, but only if you make sure they apply to every player including officers / gm.
    Last edited by Banzhe; 2012-11-08 at 05:22 PM.

  6. #66
    Legendary! slime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    USA PA
    We actually had a similar problem - not exactly one person - but so much was being called out on a particular fight and there was all this chatter that was unnecessary. To avoid pointing the finger at any one individual - the next week they just imposed a rule that only the RL, or whoever is supposed to be calling out stuff on a fight may speak in vent (during the fight). If they did - they'd be muted. That way it's a rule for everyone and this person doesn't have to feel he is being punished specifically.

    On a side note - 1 bad apple can ruin a bunch, and you are being much nicer than I would be. I believe you cut the problem off at the head, it might be painful, might take long to rebuild - but at least you are in control of when this happens, rather then leting one over-grown baby control when you raid and when you don't. I don't believe getting 1 new person in is going to be that hard, sure it's a pain - and you like the status quo - but this person sounds spoiled and you are not going to fix a spoiled child by punishing them, this will only infuriate them more, see the spoiled are never wrong.

    @sp2danny.. lol dog eat dog, dime a dozen. that was golden.
    Last edited by slime; 2012-11-08 at 05:35 PM.

  7. #67
    Fluffy Kitten Aurora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Had a similar issue as a GM in a guild of friends. I mailed everyone privately bar the person in question to gather their thoughts on the issue and relayed them on to the person. It's important as a GM to represent your guild when dealing with things like this and not just yourself as your own judgment has the potential to be divisive.
    The issue itself was a culmination of things that led us to believe this player wasn't pulling his weight in the guild, we pointed out the issues and talked him through our concerns. The "punishment" was a demotion to trial and given a period of two weeks to show an improvement in his behavior, if he didn't we'd recruit to replace him. He responded well, passed his trial and was a much better player for the rest of the expansion.

    Some people won't respond well and might leave, you need to decide in advance of the confrontation whether you're willing to accept that as a possible outcome.

  8. #68
    Dreadlord Dragore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    In front of my computer
    Though it is good to allow people to voice their opinions about encounters and the RL should take them all into account but he has the final say and is appointed in the task to lead the raid. And as follows everyone needs to listen. You need to make it clear that only the RL's are the ones to talk during the fight unless calling out for something. Only discussion is about the current fight at hand. Back when I was RL in vanilla early TBC I was nice about it but came to the realization that can't work for long because people over step their boundaries. I would suggest a verbal warning about his actions. Leaving the raid like that is childish and is not good for your group. In the mean time find a replacement by recruitment. This will show you are serious and not to be pushed. Ask him to apologize to the rest of the group for ruining your raid night to.

    It's not a democracy, its a cheerocracy and you must be the cheer-tator at times.

  9. #69
    First incident we ever had like this, I pulled the individual and a few of the Officers into a separate channel and discussed the best way to go about strategy changes (they are to be discussed *after* the raid, not during the limited time we raid).

    The second incident was an immediate /gkick.

    Never had another incident after that. As a Guild Leader, you have to make it clear that BS like that during a raid will not be tolerated, no matter who you are. The Raid Leaders are responsible for researching strategy and making immediate modifications if needed. We always had a very successful, very happy raid team once everyone knew that our limited raid time would be drama free.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I had this exact situation in Naxx on a Sapph attempt and I disagree with you. Here's the thing - everyone, not just the offender, needs to know that you don't contradict the RL in raid. Other issues about his behavior in general? Yeah, talk about those privately. But when someone blatantly tries to overrule the RL in the raid channel it needs to be dealt with then and there.
    Exactly this. I think that the suggestion that he should have been talked to in private later about the call outs is a horrible idea. Now depending on the atmosphere of your guild, sure if you need to talk to some one about playing like garbage, talk in private. I had a similiar issue with one of our tanks on lich king trying to call out stack up / spread out on that one defile/valk combo that would change order. Having some one do that is only going to cause a wipe because some people will listen to him and some people to the RL which usually means you're screwed. Thats not something you put off to talk privately about while they wipe the raid again.

    His emo logging is the real issue though. You unfortunately need him pretty badly apparently, but that is instant gkick imo. We did have one person that another officer asked to let back in if he would agree to apologize for throwing a tantrum to the entire raid (which we discussed with the raid). If you do nothing, it is basically like telling your raid that this one person is allowed to waste their evenings which is just going to increase overall discontent.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2012-11-08 at 06:45 PM.

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