1. #1

    Pvp dev watercooler translation for disc

    Disc Priest want even mentioned on the dev pvp post even though most agree that there are definite problems with the class/ spec.

    From what I read disc must be fine when warrs and hunters are nerfed.
    Don't worry though you'll have to worry about rogues and monks too.

    Disc must be fine because there will soon be a healing nerf in pvp from 15 to 30%.
    Disc damage is going to be nerfed to because pvp power will soon effect either healing or damage, which nerfs attonement healing in pvp.

    Disc is looking great! /sad face

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleric View Post
    So now we've got a class that has mediocre heals, poor mobility, and does absolutely nothing that the other healing classes without those weaknesses can't do.

    It's shit, and what's worse it won't change until Blizzard allocates resources to a priest PvP re-design. Which will be the next expansion at the earliest.
    This, unfortunately, is very true. There some inherent weaknesses in the priest design in PvP. The game was never intended to have a PvP setting and the Priest, Holy and Disc in particular, has the worst some of the worst PvP polish. Shadow has done well in MoP, but Psychic Horror needs to be unlinked from Shadow Orbs. In fact, Psychic Horror being a general class skill would help immensely. But I digress.

    Disc has the highest vulnerability to dispels (Paladins use a lot of instants, Druids have built in dispel protection on hots, Shamans Earth Shield is immune to dispels), lack of effective CC (Fear breaks in particular really hurt the class, and there is A LOT of fear breaks, which really should be removed from the game) leaves the priest defenseless for ~28 seconds. If the priest survives that long, gap closers/trinkets immediately put the priest under attack again. The solution is to add another form of CC to Priests; honestly, as I said before, Psychic Horror would be simple and solve a lot of problems. a 1 min CD would be about right, I think.

    To be fair, the re-introduction of Focused Will will help a lot with our dispel issues. Currently, there are SO MANY offensive dispels in game our shields, renews, and prayer really have no hope in hell on staying on the priest. Focused Will, providing dispels remove only one charge of the three, will go a long way to helping the class be viable. If it is all three charges at once, Disc will still be the weakest healer by a considerable margin.

    Inner Will stacking with Boot enchants are a quality of life change that may make it possible to escape a melee, which we currently have no real hope of doing. Turn and fighting is our only option, and that makes us easy to pick off.

    Priests, in addition to our mobility and lack of CC woes, also have the worst mana management. We go oom two or three times faster then paladins, shamans, and druids.

    These three issues really cripple the class, and this is what really needs to be fixed.

  3. #3
    Agree. Diusc priest is a waste of time to me, altho i spent the past 2 years as a disc priests in arena and Bgs.
    Going holy is just a plain suicide.

    Problem is, that in full 458 gears i can't play much with shadow spec either, i got shred apart by DKs and Wars. Maybe in this cas i just need to get an healing partner not an UH DK :\.
    Last edited by Purpleisbetter; 2012-11-01 at 06:15 AM.

  4. #4
    What I got from the watercooler was that everyone who wasn't mentioned in the watercooler is not OP and therefore everyone else is going to be nerfed down to your level!

    Still, it's PVP. Best we can hope for is it'll be kinda sorta mostly balanced around 2 patches into the expansion or so.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    "Burst – Aside from Hunters, and possibly Warriors and Mages, we don’t think burst is out of control. Other specs that get mentioned by players are Destruction Warlocks, Frost Death Knights, and Shadow Priests. Those are definitely on our radar, but we don’t have any changes to announce at the moment."

    Regarding shadow priests, I love how we are being mentioned for our superior burst??? Alongside destruction warlocks and frost death knights.. Did I miss something?
    Not saying that shadow priests aren't overall better than destruction locks and frost DKs atm, but our burst is definitely not the reason why you would bring a shadow priest.

    Anyways, Psyfiend and PvP power changes should definitely bring us back to normal.

    Regarding Discs.. It's quite fun how holy paladins, resto shamans and resto druids are somewhat all equally strong in their different aspects, whereas disc priests are being completely shit. If burst is toned down along the line then I would definitely not mind the other healers being brought down on disc priest level.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2012-11-01 at 10:01 AM.

  6. #6
    I was really blown away there wasn't even a mention of healing priests in the pvp blog. Like, even if they didn't have any fixes in the pipe for it, they could say simply that Disc is underperforming / under-represented and they are monitoring it... you know, the usual side stepping bullshit they usually give. They just ignored the situation completely though and it's made me really lose faith as to seeing the class making it back on the radar this season.

    I have played ~50 RBG's this season and you see a healing priest maybe one time in 10 or 15. Every team is basically running resto druid, resto sham, holy pally.

    Maybe their thinking is that furthering the healing debuff to 30% from 15% will bring healers in line because it will affect Disc the least (being more absorb and mitigation based).

  7. #7
    Priests aren't great. There's been plenty of time in WoW where the other healer's weren't great. To say Priests were never designed for PvP and they fail miserably is nonsense. RMP was a Rank 1 team for YEARS. Priest/Rogue was the second best comp in 2s for YEARS. Only Druid/Warrior had an easier faceroll to Gladiator.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    To say Priests were never designed for PvP
    If this is a response to my post, perhaps you should re-read it.

    Also; They weren't. No class, save Monks and DKs, were.
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-11-01 at 10:12 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    Priests aren't great. There's been plenty of time in WoW where the other healer's weren't great. To say Priests were never designed for PvP and they fail miserably is nonsense. RMP was a Rank 1 team for YEARS. Priest/Rogue was the second best comp in 2s for YEARS. Only Druid/Warrior had an easier faceroll to Gladiator.
    I deleted my initial post in this thread because I thought it sounded whiny, and hopefully I can explain it a little better the second time around. The issue isn't whether priests were "designed for PvP," it's that tools have been removed from the healing priest toolkit piece by piece and now there's nothing left.

    Back in BC and Wrath, healing priests in PvP were all about burst damage, dispels, mana burn, and the occasional mind control. They also had poor mobility, mediocre heals, and mediocre mana efficiency. This mixed bag of strengths and weaknesses didn't occur at random. It occurred because, when the devs were doling out PvP abilities, they decided that healing priests should be an anti-caster and anti-healer healer that's vulnerable to melee and sustained damage. In other words, healing priests had a defined kit, and the abilities that they got - and didn't get - fit in with that kit.

    Fast forward to the present. Pretty much all of the strengths in the priest toolbox are gone, but the weaknesses remain. I don't think the devs ever sat down and said "let's destroy healing priests in PvP." Rather, what happened is that the various abilities were removed because they no longer fit in to the overall game design. Mana destruction in general has been totally removed, which is why Mana Burn is gone. Offensive dispels are being limited, which is why the double offensive dispel is gone and Mass Dispel costs a huge amount of mana. Defensive dispels all got CDs, which is why Purify and Mass Dispel have CDs. Healer damage in general in PvP has been normalized, which is why we can't chop off a third of a player's life anymore with Mind Blast -> Holy Fire. Utility in general has been moved to talents, which is why Mind Control isn't baseline. Offspec spells have been limited, which is why we no longer have access to Mind Blast, Mind Spike, and Devouring Plague.

    Overall, the problem is that various parts of the healing priest kit just didn't fit in with the current game design. So they were removed. The problem is that all these nonconforming abilities, taken together, were the healing priest PvP kit. And instead of giving healing priests a re-design, Blizzard just left disc a hollowed out shell. So it's not really convincing when you say that priests used to be good, and other classes have gone through periods of weakness too. It's not just a numbers or tuning issue - healing priests need an entirely new PvP kit, because the one they used to have is just gone.
    Last edited by Maleric; 2012-11-02 at 12:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Maleric, that is probably one of the best written posts regarding the state of Discipline's toolkit I've ever read. Sad, but refreshing in both its honesty as well as why we are where we are. Thank you for that.
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