1. #1
    Mechagnome Sweetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    on Sylvanas

    Raidgroup with poor performance - what do?

    Hey Forum

    I have had issues with our raiding team since always. For some reason certain players seem to take a lot longer to grasp mechanics that I consider simple. People also underprepare for bossfights in spite of being told to do so. They also don't seem to keep themselves updated on their personal theorycrafting, mainly the DPS.

    Key issues I think we're facing:
    - Absent knowledge of boss mechanics
    - Inability to manuever while keeping up the dps/healing
    - Inability to learn from own and/or others' mistakes
    - Inability to foresee and prevent the worst from happening (ex. getting locked away from the raid by cobalt traps with a fire-chains coming up @ stoneguards)
    - Limited raid-awareness (debuff x or debuff y vs totem @ Gara'jal hc)

    So, from one officerstaff of random top 1000 guild to all of you, raiders and leaders; what the Gnome can we do to help these issues? I am out of ideas, really.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    If you want to act "hardcore" replace people who doesn't do as asked. Simple as that.

    Also - nothing wrong with tanks, or are they part of the officers?
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
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  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Caribald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    join a better guild tbh
    My old solo stuff can be seen on Twitch and Youtube

  4. #4
    You warn them, then you replace them when they display an unwillingness or inability to improve.

    Either that, or you hold their hands through every encounter, by constantly calling out on vent/mumble/TS/whatevs absolutely everything that they need to pay attention to. You can do it that way too, but it puts a lot of strain on your reidleaders, and it leads to the raid falling apart the second the raidleader makes a small mistake, since the poor preformers have come to completely rely on him/her to tell them what to do.

    I haven't found anything else that works.
    "Why make trillions when we could make... billions??"

  5. #5
    I was in the same situation, long story short, join a better guild and save yourself the nightmares and headaches, people who are brain dead will always be.

  6. #6
    What I've learned is that leadership is king. My guild was a 25man guild in previous expansions, now we do two 10man teams and rotate a few stand-by players each week. If a player (of any role) isn't fully gemmed/chanted and don't know their class enough we simply bench them, or take away their DKP for constantly refusing to get better. We're only semi-hardcore.

    We have a selection of officers who pick the teams, we have one raid leader per team. And all of our players read tactics, watch videos beforehand. And if anything needs clearing up we explain tactics on a per role basis. So we tell the ranged/healers to stand certain places and explain what the tanks will be doing so our melee can adjust.

    Heck, we have two people who got 6 alts each farming mats for the cooking so we all have the max buff food, we just ask players to level their cooking to max.

    So you have your raiders read tactics, and you stick to one raid leader who will explain it better. If they still don't quite understand then there's not a lot you can do that won't force your players to leave.

    If all else fails, move on, if you can help these people then try, if not it isn't your fault so find a better guild.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Sweetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    on Sylvanas
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    If you want to act "hardcore" replace people who doesn't do as asked. Simple as that.

    Also - nothing wrong with tanks, or are they part of the officers?
    Other than the occasional "getting hit by stuff that should've been avoided" I don't feel there's a lot of things that tanks can do wrong. I have reasonable confidence in both of our tanks. They usually don't die of their own accord, but rather when healers are oom. One tank is an officer, so I communicate with him enough to know that if something is wrong in that department, it is being dealt with.

    We did give our healers a kick in the nuts on Feng, since they had unlearned all their accumulated knowledge of timings of raid cds from Spine. Told them to prepare better and have a plan, rather than reacting to massive raid damage by popping random cds. There is very little unexpected damage currently, from what I can tell.

    Btw, it's all helpful and I do enjoy reading what other people believe/ have experienced. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    If you want to act "hardcore" replace people who doesn't do as asked. Simple as that.
    no. you should leave yourself and look for a better raid.

  9. #9
    You know what to do. You need to bench people who consistently underperform, aren't prepared or aren't flasking, gemmed, enchanted etc. That's not the issue.

    The question is whether you'll do it.

  10. #10
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Washington, DC
    They've got a case of the Dragon Souls.
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  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    The Stars
    3 choices:

    1: Leave and find a new guild.
    2: Recruit and once you find someone better, boot the lazy nerds.
    3: Deal with it.

  12. #12
    I'm actually having a similar problem...On Feng it's like the healers forgot what CD rotations were after Hspine. (We even did DS up until MoP release so it hasn't even been that long -_-) Our DPS are dying to plain out stupid shit. The only people that seem to remember how to play are our tanks. I'm aware DS was nerfed to the ground and this is new content, but Christ this is getting old fast. I love these guys but I'm even considering looking for a new guild.
    I wish you the best of luck. If you can find out how to fix these issues let me know, I'd love it.

  13. #13
    I am blessed with 2 amazing healers in our 10 man and they communitate extremely well. they simply call out in vent when they are gonna pop a cd or ask if they need one. May sound stupid, but are your heals communicating?

    The other thing you mentioned was the "stood in fire" effect. Blind DPS can make great healers look like crap! We watch Fatboss videos...they are funny and informative. If we are having trouble we link the vid in vent and all watch it. Helps tons!

    As far as DPS goes I try to praise the high DPS. A little praise does a couple things, it encourages your top people to stay on top, and lets your crappy people know they are crappy. Make sure your people have recount. Then encourage the lower DPS to get on iceyveins.com to get thier crap togather.

  14. #14
    Usually you can't fix this kind of bad. It sounds like most of your raiders are there just to hang out and would be just as happy fishing as a raid as downing heroics.

    As others have stated, you have a few choices:

    1. find a new guild
    2. start replacing bads
    3. deal with it

    If you have to tell people to be prepared for the raid, then they probably don't care about being prepared and won't be no matter what. People who want to perform their best will do so without being told.

  15. #15
    You should tell them or show your reaction that you do not like what they do. People do not like it when someone mad at them.

    Anyway, it is hard to change them if your raid has more lazy people than prepared people.

  16. #16
    Honestly, every raid group needs a bad guy. Especially if it is a newly formed raid group. What I mean by a bad guy is a guy that will call the raid on their bullshit. Maybe you should start being that bad guy. I don't mean you should tell them to uninstall and kill themselves. What I mean is that if they are constantly standing in fire or showing up late you should pull them in vent with the rest of the raid group and put them on the spot. Don't start bashing them but instead ask them if they understand the encounter or if there is anything you or the raid group could do to help them up their performance. If you guys get to a new boss take a 15-20 minute break and make everyone go watch some Tank Spot videos. Some of the best raid leaders I have ever had have been very up front with every thing, and honestly it makes raiding go so much smoother.

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