A fix to the daily grind. "Personal Opinion"

[Jtbrig7390]

They want to PVE but they don't want to raid OR quest? Well if you don't want to do either of the two major types of content in WoW I don't think you can really complain that your chosen playstyle doesn't yield the maximum rewards.

Basically you're saying that these people explicitly do not want to do anything other than log in and queue for dungeons? Well that's exactly the kind of behaviour that became prevalent in the WoW community and led to oh-so-goddamn-many threads complaining about it before MoP. People were saying to Blizzard "this is an MMO but nobody is out in the world???" so Blizzard made dailies so that you get rewarded for being out in the world so people would actually do it. Rewarded as in, more so than just sitting in Org queueing for dungeons.

They're not about to cater to people who are devoted to a style of gameplay they're deliberately trying to incentivise people away from. That would be counterproductive.

In case you didn't know daily's where made way before people started yelling about nobody being in the world. there was a decent amount of BC daily's i can recall some taken months to finish *Looking at you neatherwing or whatever its called*.

People didn't start bitched about no one being in the world until LFD came out and it was mostly PVP players mad because it killed world pvp.

so ya.

[Glorious Leader]

They want to PVE but they don't want to raid OR quest? Well if you don't want to do either of the two major types of content in WoW I don't think you can really complain that your chosen playstyle doesn't yield the maximum rewards.

Basically you're saying that these people explicitly do not want to do anything other than log in and queue for dungeons? Well that's exactly the kind of behaviour that became prevalent in the WoW community and led to oh-so-goddamn-many threads complaining about it before MoP. People were saying to Blizzard "this is an MMO but nobody is out in the world???" so Blizzard made dailies so that you get rewarded for being out in the world so people would actually do it. Rewarded as in, more so than just sitting in Org queueing for dungeons.

They're not about to cater to people who are devoted to a style of gameplay they're deliberately trying to incentivise people away from. That would be counterproductive.

Yea because they've been PVEing without raiding or questing for the past god knows how many years. Hell even going back to TBC they weren't questing they were "double dipping" in dungeons. It didn't yield maximum reward, it never has but it did yield more reward than it does now.

Being out in the world is such a broad statement. Even if you think that it's important the simple fact is that dailies have always existed and nobody ever chose to do them before to get them out of the world or as a means of Entertainment. Well next to nobody at any rate. I don't even think Blizzard thinks dailies are a really good solution to getting people out into the world for other than very brief periods of activity. I know of almost no one who hit exalted and continues to do these dailies. Furthermore when you do do them for the most part you aren't actually enjoying the world by and large you are going to point A to kill mob B and then back to Shrine of two moons to afk again after you turn all it in. I think this is reinforced by the fact that the quests themselves are very basic and don't really add anything fun or interesting outside of the norm. I think Blizzard knows people just want to get this shit over with and don't really care about being out in the world to much otherwise you think they would have put more effort into making the quests alot more unique then kill 10 collect 9. At least some of them at any rate. They are all just kill 10 collect 9.

My suggestions don't actually stop people from going into the world, you would still be heavily incentivized for doing so. It just gives a bit more of a incentive for people who have had a play style that has been rather abruptly taken away from them for little reason.

[Alhoon]

Disagree with both/Need Better Options

Better option: don't fix what is not broken. Cheers.

[Jtbrig7390]

Disagree with both/Need Better Options

Better option: don't fix what is not broken. Cheers.

And that is why we have the problem we do now but thx for your helpful insight on the topic at hand


Edit: Blizzard keeps trying to fix things that are not broken and add new things broken from the start that is why people feel the way they do now.


Question: all the hardcore raiders who keep saying *the daily's are a choice just don't do them* the Buff to the raids is a chose just turn it off.....works the same way don't it just turn it off if u don't want content nerfed.

[Glorious Leader]

Effectively this whole out in the world nonsense is Blizzard trying to have their cake and eat it to. It's not a sandbox mmo, it doesn't have that lvl of immersive value or exploration or anything of that sort. If I want to be out in the world exploring and being immersed and all sandboxy I'd go play Skyrim. Dailies don't cure that or make it more sandbox, they just prod players out with the carrot for brief periods of activity.

[Jtbrig7390]

Effectively this whole out in the world nonsense is Blizzard trying to have their cake and eat it to. It's not a sandbox mmo, it doesn't have that lvl of immersive value or exploration or anything of that sort. If I want to be out in the world exploring and being immersed and all sandboxy I'd go play Skyrim. Dailies don't cure that or make it more sandbox, they just prod players out with the carrot for brief periods of activity.

Couldn't agree with you more. players should not feel forced to do anything in anyway and now a decent amount do cause of the rep required on valor gear.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Oh I played BC but I forgot some of the things that were in BC, the rep requirement on gear was in BC and I forgot that the instances themselves gave rep. Personally I think they should stick to one system and stop constantly changing their minds every expansion.

It's called: "comfort zones"

It's a Blizz design philosophy to mix things up constantly in their belief it'll break any boredom. Something I'm at odds with totally as the changes are go from 90/180 back to 360 degrees. No rhyme or reason, just so they can change things around.

On the PR side of it alone it makes the devs look like fools and liars (oh this won't be like that...expansion release...it's like that).

[Glorious Leader]

It's called: "comfort zones"

It's a Blizz design philosophy to mix things up constantly in their belief it'll break any boredom. Something I'm at odds with totally as the changes are go from 90/180 back to 360 degrees. No rhyme or reason, just so they can change things around.

On the PR side of it alone it makes the devs look like fools and liars (oh this won't be like that...expansion release...it's like that).

It seems like theirs just no middle ground when they make these changes. Swing wildly from one extreme paradigm to another and never stop to ameliorate and moderate the ends. That's the saddest part about this whole thing. The people who like mists should be actively calling for the scant few small changes that are being asked for instead of simply letting Blizzard do a total complete 180 again in the next expansion.

[Mormolyce]

In case you didn't know daily's where made way before people started yelling about nobody being in the world. there was a decent amount of BC daily's i can recall some taken months to finish *Looking at you neatherwing or whatever its called*.

People didn't start bitched about no one being in the world until LFD came out and it was mostly PVP players mad because it killed world pvp.

so ya.

I'm obsessive about doing every quest and daily grind (and everything really) in the game so I did all those rep grinds ages ago. Yeah there were things like Netherwing but only mount collectors needed to do those, they wanted the average player out in the world.

Yea because they've been PVEing without raiding or questing for the past god knows how many years. Hell even going back to TBC they weren't questing they were "double dipping" in dungeons. It didn't yield maximum reward, it never has but it did yield more reward than it does now.

Being out in the world is such a broad statement. Even if you think that it's important the simple fact is that dailies have always existed and nobody ever chose to do them before to get them out of the world or as a means of Entertainment. Well next to nobody at any rate. I don't even think Blizzard thinks dailies are a really good solution to getting people out into the world for other than very brief periods of activity. I know of almost no one who hit exalted and continues to do these dailies. Furthermore when you do do them for the most part you aren't actually enjoying the world by and large you are going to point A to kill mob B and then back to Shrine of two moons to afk again after you turn all it in. I think this is reinforced by the fact that the quests themselves are very basic and don't really add anything fun or interesting outside of the norm. I think Blizzard knows people just want to get this shit over with and don't really care about being out in the world to much otherwise you think they would have put more effort into making the quests alot more unique then kill 10 collect 9. At least some of them at any rate. They are all just kill 10 collect 9.

My suggestions don't actually stop people from going into the world, you would still be heavily incentivized for doing so. It just gives a bit more of a incentive for people who have had a play style that has been rather abruptly taken away from them for little reason.

It's not taken away, you just can't get VP items by doing it that way. They may have been doing it for years but that's exactly why Blizzard's trying to break that habit.

I agree with some of your sentiment about the daily quests though, but really KILL X COLLECT Y kind of applies to questing in general. Questing has improved a lot in WoW's lifetime and is pretty streamlined at the moment, but is it just getting repetitive? Normally I love questing but while leveling I noticed I was getting kind of weary of it all. Then again dungeons aren't that much better, it's just KILL ENDBOSS and skip as much trash as you can on the way.

But I think if they ever find a way to supersede quest content it'll be such a radical departure from WoW it'll really be a whole new game. Maybe something along the lines of GW2, though I haven't played that so I can't comment :P

[Jtbrig7390]

It seems like theirs just no middle ground when they make these changes. Swing wildly from one extreme paradigm to another and never stop to ameliorate and moderate the ends. That's the saddest part about this whole thing. The people who like mists should be actively calling for the scant few small changes that are being asked for instead of simply letting Blizzard do a total complete 180 again in the next expansion.

Just look at what they did with cata that kinda tells it all.

Blizzard needs to learn they don't need to overhaul everything for people to enjoy the game just change a few things and stop trying to get us to play the game the way they want it.

they pulled the same stunt with diablo III "Play it our way cause our way is the right and best way" and it backfired hard and i feel there doing the same thing with WOW.

[Mormolyce]

Edit: Blizzard keeps trying to fix things that are not broken and add new things broken from the start that is why people feel the way they do now.

Your opinion that it's not broken. Maybe WoW should not have changed anything at all since Vanilla? I'm sure it'd be massively popular now if it hadn't lol.

[Jtbrig7390]

But I think if they ever find a way to supersede quest content it'll be such a radical departure from WoW it'll really be a whole new game. Maybe something along the lines of GW2, though I haven't played that so I can't comment :P

I have played GW2 and i got a level 80 guardian. Me personally it would be interest to see wow do the same quest setup as guild wars 2 but its something that would happen in the next xpac and i think in a way that was kinda what Path of the titans was going to be in cata.

In GW2 i enjoyed the questing until around 65-70 and that was kinda funny cause from 70-80 its DE after DE unless u do class questing.

*Also please do not turn this into a WOW vs Game thread i feel this needs to be asked since GW2 was said*

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 04:43 AM ----------

Your opinion that it's not broken. Maybe WoW should not have changed anything at all since Vanilla? I'm sure it'd be massively popular now if it hadn't lol.

WoW got Massively popular at vanilla because of these main things.

-Most Casual MMO on the market to date.*If you though Vanilla was a grind you should try EQ1/SWG/COH ect....*
-Lore
-Has blizzards name on it
-fans from Warcraft/Diablo wanted to play it.

And no you took what i said the wrong way the problem is blizzard trying to fix things that where not broken aka the rep the tabards where fine in Cata getting valor was fine but because blizzard felt something *no clue what no one bitched about daily's in cata unless it was firelands daily's* they changed the whole thing. they didn't like people making valor a main thing to get for gear and wanted loot to drop from boss's.

The valor system has been in place since near the end of WOTLK and they felt now to change how it works....thats stupid.

This is not Vanilla wow or TBC it can't and never will just go back to boss's dropping loot cause if it did it would mean another huge sub drop due to the grind of it getting annoying.

Blizzard decided to make it so you needed rep to spend your valor and to get rep gear and we see how great that is working.

I kinda feel like I'm beating a dead horse now.

[Mormolyce]

I have played GW2 and i got a level 80 guardian. Me personally it would be interest to see wow do the same quest setup as guild wars 2 but its something that would happen in the next xpac and i think in a way that was kinda what Path of the titans was going to be in cata.

I don't know what people thought Paths of the Titans was going to be but the last dev notes on it were that it was basically another glyph pane with a big array of glyphs that were non-class specific buffs like 5% more crit, 5% more bleed damage, etc. Bit off topic but personally I'm so glad they scrapped it, it would've been unbalanceable and totally boring.

[Jtbrig7390]

I don't know what people thought Paths of the Titans was going to be but the last dev notes on it were that it was basically another glyph pane with a big array of glyphs that were non-class specific buffs like 5% more crit, 5% more bleed damage, etc. Bit off topic but personally I'm so glad they scrapped it, it would've been unbalanceable and totally boring.

Originally it was going to be a quest chain that went threw each zone of cata but that got changed fast. i never heard it was going to be a glyph pane but i could be wrong on that.

[Glorious Leader]

I'm obsessive about doing every quest and daily grind (and everything really) in the game so I did all those rep grinds ages ago. Yeah there were things like Netherwing but only mount collectors needed to do those, they wanted the average player out in the world.



It's not taken away, you just can't get VP items by doing it that way. They may have been doing it for years but that's exactly why Blizzard's trying to break that habit.

I agree with some of your sentiment about the daily quests though, but really KILL X COLLECT Y kind of applies to questing in general. Questing has improved a lot in WoW's lifetime and is pretty streamlined at the moment, but is it just getting repetitive? Normally I love questing but while leveling I noticed I was getting kind of weary of it all. Then again dungeons aren't that much better, it's just KILL ENDBOSS and skip as much trash as you can on the way.

But I think if they ever find a way to supersede quest content it'll be such a radical departure from WoW it'll really be a whole new game. Maybe something along the lines of GW2, though I haven't played that so I can't comment :P

It is absolutely taken away from me. After 2 days (roughly) of running dungeons I was done with them. It was pointless to have included them because they simple don't have any long term reward. They may as well have not given us any lvl 90 dungeons and simple given you gear in the mail to facilitate your raiding. Their is nothing to work for in dungeon. No reward above 463 which is obtained in such short time.

I don't want to quest anymore. Maybe if 85-90 wasn't big one fucking quest my face off with the same boring shit over and over again I would consider doing more dailies but after grinding all that bs to hit 90 I have very little stomach fro more.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 04:53 AM ----------

Your opinion that it's not broken. Maybe WoW should not have changed anything at all since Vanilla? I'm sure it'd be massively popular now if it hadn't lol.

More or less every incarnation and the changes made to the game with the exception of TWO have been progressive changes designed to make life better for people playing this game. Change for the sake of change itself isn't good and regressive change is especially not good. Making dungeons harder resulted in lots of negative feedback and it was a regressive change. The change to the end game reward system is regressive even more than the harder dungeons. Hell they even changed the daily dungeon reward back to one a day every day...

[Jtbrig7390]

It is absolutely taken away from me. After 2 days (roughly) of running dungeons I was done with them. It was pointless to have included them because they simple don't have any long term reward. They may as well have not given us any lvl 90 dungeons and simple given you gear in the mail to facilitate your raiding. Their is nothing to work for in dungeon. No reward above 463 which is obtained in such short time.

I don't want to quest anymore. Maybe if 85-90 wasn't big one fucking quest my face off with the same boring shit over and over again I would consider doing more dailies but after grinding all that bs to hit 90 I have very little stomach fro more.

Ya i got to agree the questing from 85-90 was such a pain in the ass i still say you need way to much xp.

what was it like 12 million xp from 85 to 86....it took me a little over a week just to get 5 levels. what annoyed me the most is i was not even out of the first zone by level 87 doing all the quests.

If you need 12 million xp to level quests should be giving more then 105k xp each and each kill 10k.......

I was totally like WTF level 87 still in the same zone aaarrrgggg.

[Glorious Leader]

Originally it was going to be a quest chain that went threw each zone of cata but that got changed fast. i never heard it was going to be a glyph pane but i could be wrong on that.

They got rid of PotT because well it felt to necessary and grindy. Wtf do dailies feel like? Necessary and grindy. It's just so contradictory every thing they say with regards this system. It's stand out like a sore thumb. The rest of this expansion has given us so much progressive change and it's good overall for the game. This is the one area that just sticks out.

[Seranthor]

Oh we should get that out of the way right now. Rep grinding for factions with any pve progression was done in dungeons and not in dailies by and large in tbc. So for instance Lower City rep was granted in Auchindon and Sethhek Halls and Mana Tombs. You would grind those dungeons well in excess of your need for gear from them (by and large) and then at revered ( reduced to honored ostensibly on the grounds that revered was to much grind for alts and players in general) buy heroic keys to run the heroic versions of those instance. In no way shape or form did dailies every enter the equation and much like in cataclysm rep grinding in TBC "double dipped" (a notion I disagree with at it's core) with your natural gear progression. Even in IQOD you could literally not do a single one and still reap the benefits. Dailies have NEVER had this much reward behind them and "double dipping" has been a part of this game going all the way back to TBC. For everyone saying it's like TBC, you honestly never played TBC.

You mean Consortium rep came from Mana Tombs and Lower City rep came from Auch, Seth and Shadow Lab.

[Glorious Leader]

You mean Consortium rep came from Mana Tombs and Lower City rep came from Auch, Seth and Shadow Lab.

Was it consortium?

A complete clear of Mana-Tombs will give about 1200 reputation with the Consortium until Honored, and 2400 each Heroic clear.

My mistake. I'll go back and fix it.

[Jtbrig7390]

They got rid of PotT because well it felt to necessary and grindy. Wtf do dailies feel like? Necessary and grindy. It's just so contradictory every thing they say with regards this system. It's stand out like a sore thumb. The rest of this expansion has given us so much progressive change and it's good overall for the game. This is the one area that just sticks out.

Like they said a few months before MOP.

Would you rather we work on content that last's months or content that last's weeks remember we didn't get pre-xpac event because of this comment. stop working on daily hubs to make them more grindly and work on the dungeons/raids ect.....

I personally feel if they pull this daily stunt on the next tier of raiding that they will see a sub drop but that's me