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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    This is like telling someone that Major League pitching is too hard for 10 year olds to hit.

    Kids shouldn't be at the plate. There are ability-appropriate leagues for them, and there is LFR for people who can't coordinate and won't put in the effort to learn the fight.
    It's not a question of being unable to co ordinate, simply that it's perfectly possible to put easier bosses in and ramp up the required effort over time, especially on normal modes.

    Stone guards needs nerfing - or to not be the first boss of the first raid of the first tier of mop.

    Theres no entry level raid again. It's LFR that is a new players entry to raiding according to some, which is going to be 14 tank and spanks that said new players get carried through by grumpy veteran raiders with zero interaction and then a huge step up to stone guard normal.

    Poor design, end of story.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  2. #242
    Jasper Links, disconnects and hacks cost the life of my raid team, true story

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Stone guards needs nerfing - or to not be the first boss of the first raid of the first tier of mop.
    Yeah, nah. Sorry, but if you fail at Stone Guard, then you aren't cut out for raiding and, given the 98% on wowprogress, you're in a pretty small minority.

  4. #244
    Dunno about you, but I honestly think that I AM in the WORST raid group ever and we two-shotted the hardest Stone Guardian combination (Jade missing) this ID on normal.

  5. #245
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    I actually prefer Jasper over Amethyst. So Jasper/Cobolt/Jade is the best combination you can get. You only have to move from Mines which happens less requently than Amethyst Pools. Stacking for Jasper Chains is not hard at all, just don't stay so spread out to begin with. Jade just does some AoE abit now and then. To handle all this you just break Mines when Cobolt Petrification happens or just use some immunity like Hunter Deterrence. You break chains with Jasper Petrification (though its not really needed at all to break it).

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    Yeah, nah. Sorry, but if you fail at Stone Guard, then you aren't cut out for raiding and, given the 98% on wowprogress, you're in a pretty small minority.
    You really have no clue how wowprogress percentages work, do you? That's the percentage of guilds that have at least one recorded boss kill in this tier's raids. Of course the first boss will be close to 100%, regardless of how hard the content is.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You really have no clue how wowprogress percentages work, do you?
    Then by all means explain.

    PS I wouldn't call anything on Normal until Elegon hard, but okay.
    Last edited by notdryad; 2012-11-10 at 04:36 PM.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Get yourself 9 completely random people and pop in there. Make sure the other 9 are brand new to it. Don't watch any videos or use anything but a vague pass over the dungeon journal.

    Oh, and be wanting to chill after a week at work, and have a few drinks inside you before setting out.

    It'll take you half an hour before the tanks get it, and then you'll have to work on everything else. Not entertaining.
    go and do some 5 HC - you SHOULD be good enought to end each of them in like 2-3 hours run.

    Raids are for ppl who wants some challenge from game. Not only for ppl who are: "switching off my brain, going first time to kill something i've never seen/read about in my first night, first attempt when my playing skills are: "Staying in 1 place for 10 minutes hitting random abillities."

  9. #249
    "Undergeared" ... "Stone guards" ... No. just No.

  10. #250
    if you cant deal with that boss, you might stick to raidfinder

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    1) Yesterday we 1shooted this encounter with Cobalt/Ame/Jade combo - it was easier than Sha of Anger. I'm talking about how much the difficulty changes with the addition of chains
    2) We aren't aiming for world 1st, just for some fun. Yep, those guilds still exist.
    Chains makes it harder, but you just need to be aware and stay close to the person you re chained too, no real reason to break them. The encounter doesn't really need adjustments.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    Yeah, nah. Sorry, but if you fail at Stone Guard, then you aren't cut out for raiding and, given the 98% on wowprogress, you're in a pretty small minority.
    Killed stong guard after a few wipes.

    My comments aren't about me and my experience, they are about what's good for the average player.

    Stone guard has a 90% fail rate or something. It's a terrible first boss.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Bozzna View Post
    if you cant deal with that boss, you might stick to raidfinder
    Those complaining are probably from 10 man raiding guilds that don't want to do 25 man LFR.

    If there was a 10 man raid at LFR difficulty many would probably be doing that.

    There is a hole in the raiding menu for guilds of that kind.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Those complaining are probably from 10 man raiding guilds that don't want to do 25 man LFR.

    If there was a 10 man raid at LFR difficulty many would probably be doing that.

    There is a hole in the raiding menu for guilds of that kind.

    Which, after cataclysm is probably a LOT of guilds.

    Stone guard is a great 4th boss. It's a fine 5th boss. It's a wonderful end boss, even.

    It's a truly terrible intro to a raiding tier. Remember, this might be someones first ever raiding experience and having it be a cockblock is poor design.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  15. #255
    Pandaren Monk Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    1) Yesterday we 1shooted this encounter with Cobalt/Ame/Jade combo - it was easier than Sha of Anger. I'm talking about how much the difficulty changes with the addition of chains
    2) We aren't aiming for world 1st, just for some fun. Yep, those guilds still exist.
    2) Which is great, power to you.., but get realistic dude!

    Because you and your band of merry hoho's can't be bothered trying to adapt when a fight changes (ever so slightly), it should be nerfed?- if that's the mindset of guilds who exist just for fun, then stick to lfr, pet battles n' whatever else was created for your type!

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Killed stong guard after a few wipes.

    My comments aren't about me and my experience, they are about what's good for the average player.

    Stone guard has a 90% fail rate or something. It's a terrible first boss.
    Good for you? I know that you're the spokesman for the average player, common man, etc.

    I'm gonna have to ask for some proof for this "90% fail rate." That seems outrageous for an easy boss.

    Those complaining are probably from 10 man raiding guilds that don't want to do 25 man LFR.
    Then they should get better. The mechanics aren't hard.

  17. #257
    Pandaren Monk Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Get yourself 9 completely random people and pop in there. Make sure the other 9 are brand new to it. Don't watch any videos or use anything but a vague pass over the dungeon journal.

    Oh, and be wanting to chill after a week at work, and have a few drinks inside you before setting out.

    It'll take you half an hour before the tanks get it, and then you'll have to work on everything else. Not entertaining.
    The fuck is wrong with you?- go hit up lfr if you have the patience, will to learn / improve n' stamina of a 3 month old baby crying for a bottle!

  18. #258
    Don't you understand, Banzhe? He's the voice of the casuals that can't get out of blue circles or move together when DBM tells you to.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    Good for you? I know that you're the spokesman for the average player, common man, etc.

    I'm gonna have to ask for some proof for this "90% fail rate." That seems outrageous for an easy boss.
    Check your tracking sites. Most guilds wiped on it over and over before getting it down.

    Then they should get better. The mechanics aren't hard.
    I hear this a lot around here, it's bilge.

    People in general don't "get better" - they never have and they never will, they stop playing. And then blizzard nerf the shit out of everything to bring them back.

    If you like raiding as it has been, you should be all in favour of gradual increases in difficulty and decent design.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    The fuck is wrong with you?- go hit up lfr if you have the patience, will to learn / improve n' stamina of a 3 month old baby crying for a bottle!
    The fuck is wrong with you?

    Why not read the thread and read the posts before responding? I personally haven't got an issue with stone guards.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Check your tracking sites. Most guilds wiped on it over and over before getting it down.
    You're not really familiar with the concept of burden of proof, are you? If you make a claim, then you're expected to provide evidence for said claim. Telling me to check "my tracking sites" doesn't count.

    I hear this a lot around here, it's bilge.

    People in general don't "get better" - they never have and they never will, they stop playing. And then blizzard nerf the shit out of everything to bring them back.
    They should get better, but they don't always do so because they're used to Blizzard giving them hand-outs and welfare.

    [quote]If you like raiding as it has been, you should be all in favour of gradual increases in difficulty and decent design.[COLOR="red"]

    Stone Guard is fine. The only design problems I have thus far with raid bosses are Galleon's loot is way too good for a world boss and RNG should not be such a heavy factor in some Heroic bosses (ex: Spirit Kings).

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