Let's talk demo pvp!

[Gohzerlock]

aura's being dispelled will break demo pvp, it's a very poor choice on blizz's part imo. At least give it a penalty for dispelling..

[Nadagast]

1-With dark bargain being usable while stunned in 5.1 do you think it will be better then sac pact in 5.1 and why/why not?

2-Any demo specific macro's,add ons,etc that could help "smooth" out pvp gameplay for newer "and older " locks

3-What is a good CC chain that you pull off as demo? I have a few of my own but I wanted to know what is comfortable and easy to pull off for you on a somewhat regular basis to lock down your opponents.

I think Sac Pact will still be better for most situations. 1 min CD is a lot better than 3 min, and most of the time (especially if you have Demon Training glyph + Supremacy Grimoire) the shield is enough to live the stun and port, which is really what you need.

As for macros, I think mostly just a swifty macro that uses trinket, Dark Soul, and pops you into Metamorphosis form. I'm not really sure I use others than that, besides standard focus/target/fear arena1-3.

For solo CC on healers, I love Fear -> Axe Toss -> Fear. That's 16 seconds of him doing nothing.



About the aura nerf: Has anyone tested it? Is the debuff on enemies dispellable or is the buff on the Warlock purgeable/spellstealable? I'd be pretty worried if it was the second thing. The aura definitely needs a nerf, but I think this is the wrong nerf. IMO, they should just tone down the numbers on the aura and have it be kinda a unique-to-Demo thing. They could make it not-incredibly-overpowered and still a kinda cool concept/flavor thing.

[NPSlow]

aura's being dispelled will break demo pvp, it's a very poor choice on blizz's part imo. At least give it a penalty for dispelling..

Here's the deal though, I'd rather have a CD-less aura be dispellable than Dark Soul (!!).

Granted it does take resources, but I often only use Aura of Weakness if I'm in DA form, where fury is abundant and only useable in defensive stance anyway.

If I'm going to burst someone down I'd probably specifically have CoE on them, rather than an aura of elements from Meta form anyway.

Plus if the enemy is using their time dispelling auras from me they are either a) procing a CD or at the very least b) using GCDs removing an aura instead of stopping the rape train.

Not broken, just an inconvenience. The aura/MF synergy nerf is a much bigger problem for me than offensive dispells.

[wholol]

theoretically, if auras are spellstealable and dispellable which somewhat means they have become magic effects, we should now be able to place a curse on target and have aura up at the same time, if you catch my drift... theoretically of course

[Bogdan]

theoretically, if auras are spellstealable and dispellable which somewhat means they have become magic effects, we should now be able to place a curse on target and have aura up at the same time, if you catch my drift... theoretically of course

I just tried this on PTR and it ain't working.

[wholol]

I just tried this on PTR and it ain't working.

then have you tried if the aura is spellstealable ? because that would somewhat violate the mechanics of the game, if they change it to magic then curses should still apply with magic effects given the nature of our curses and their restrictions, since they don't it means the aura should not be spellstealable, can you check please?

[Bogdan]

then have you tried if the aura is spellstealable ? because that would somewhat violate the mechanics of the game, if they change it to magic then curses should still apply with magic effects given the nature of our curses and their restrictions, since they don't it means the aura should not be spellstealable, can you check please?

I haven't checked that and there's like no mage around atm on the PTR, lol... Anyway, the aura buff now states "magic" so I'm sure they are spellstealable, even if they won't be, I still don't find this to be the biggest problem... The problem is... that they are dispellable in the first place, like... it will get purged all the time against almost every single comp... from a total of 11 classes, 6 of them have dispell, even you meet the other 5 classes in arena, most likely they will have at least one of the classes that are able to dispell... so imo spellsteal on auras is least of my concerns, the fact that they are dispellable and have twice less range than they have on live is beyond anything else....

[Shadowygoodness]

I'm curious, but I've noticed that Chaos Wave can LoS'd even after it's been cast - that is to say, if I cast Chaos Wave on someone and the wave begins to fall on them but they LoS me before the wave hits/damage is calculated, then the CW does nothing. I mean nothing. It doesn't miss, resist, nothing. It's as if it was never cast, except you get to lose a charge. This isn't something gamebreaking by any means and can easily be played around, but I don't imagine this is intentional, and I'm surprised I haven't seen any threads about this on any pvp forums.

[Phoenexis]

I'm curious, but I've noticed that Chaos Wave can LoS'd even after it's been cast - that is to say, if I cast Chaos Wave on someone and the wave begins to fall on them but they LoS me before the wave hits/damage is calculated, then the CW does nothing. I mean nothing. It doesn't miss, resist, nothing. It's as if it was never cast, except you get to lose a charge. This isn't something gamebreaking by any means and can easily be played around, but I don't imagine this is intentional, and I'm surprised I haven't seen any threads about this on any pvp forums.

It's not intended, yet gamebreaking. I've reported the bug since MoP hit the shelves. I think that Chaos Wave and Hand of Gul'Dan actually have a "hidden" cast time. If you stun the warlock, silence, basically do anything that stops a cast, then these two spells will not damage the opponent. And I think that the misinformation from all teams in the tournament is what lead to warlock comps coming on top tbh.

[Deleted]

Just for anyone whos interested. Warlock auras have been nerfed heavily on the PTR.

1. Their baseline range of 20yards, no longer scales with Mannoroths fury (which used to allow them to extend to 45 yards).
2. The auras themselves are a magical buff on the Warlock. Which can be dispelled, or spell stolen.
3. The debuff component ot the aura used to be an undispellable debuff. That also allowed it to stack with a curse cast not in meta form. So for isntance you could have aura of enfeblement and curse of elements on the same target. The stacking component has been removed.
4. The debuff component has been changed to a magical debuff. Not a curse. That makes it easily dispellable.

In otherwords the spell hasn't just been nerfed. It's been completely obliterated.

[Deleted]

Watching duels outside SW and OG between members of the server's pro pvp guild, I have noticed demo locks can definitely beat warriors and mages, the top OP 1v1 classes.

[Deleted]

I do believe Demo is the best choice for anyone looking to advance in arena, or any form of PvP in the game at this point. It's just the strongets right now, in my opinion. It's quite easy to play, and it does a TON of damage.

[hplaner]

Just for anyone whos interested. Warlock auras have been nerfed heavily on the PTR.

1. Their baseline range of 20yards, no longer scales with Mannoroths fury (which used to allow them to extend to 45 yards).
2. The auras themselves are a magical buff on the Warlock. Which can be dispelled, or spell stolen.
3. The debuff component ot the aura used to be an undispellable debuff. That also allowed it to stack with a curse cast not in meta form. So for isntance you could have aura of enfeblement and curse of elements on the same target. The stacking component has been removed.
4. The debuff component has been changed to a magical debuff. Not a curse. That makes it easily dispellable.

In otherwords the spell hasn't just been nerfed. It's been completely obliterated.

Can you elaborate more on the dispelling of the debuff component of the aura. The aura is a magical buff on the Warlock (and can be dispelled/spell stolen), but you're also saying that the debuff component of the aura can be dispelled too? Are you saying that if a healer dispels himself, the warlock loses the aura, and thus the rest of the team loses the debuff? If that is true, then this aura will not be used whatsoever coming 5.1 since any team (with a healer) can remove the aura.

[Deleted]

Can you elaborate more on the dispelling of the debuff component of the aura. The aura is a magical buff on the Warlock (and can be dispelled/spell stolen), but you're also saying that the debuff component of the aura can be dispelled too? Are you saying that if a healer dispels himself, the warlock loses the aura, and thus the rest of the team loses the debuff? If that is true, then this aura will not be used whatsoever coming 5.1 since any team (with a healer) can remove the aura.

Honestly, the spell is so convoluted atm, plus I did a rather poor job explaining it. The aura is now represented as a magical buff on the warlock, which can be dispelled, spell stolen. The effect of the aura is to put a magical debuff on every target within 20 yards. Before it was an undispellable debuff on all targets within 45 yards. Now I know what you are thinking... why the hell would they make the debuff component dispellable as well, considering the aura seems to reapply the debuff any time a target reenters the 20 yard range. Well I haven't a clue. Hence why I think whoever is making these changes doesn't fully understand how Demonology works atm. I will be really suprised if they let these changes go live as it is.

[wholol]

Honestly, the spell is so convoluted atm, plus I did a rather poor job explaining it. The aura is now represented as a magical buff on the warlock, which can be dispelled, spell stolen. The effect of the aura is to put a magical debuff on every target within 20 yards. Before it was an undispellable debuff on all targets within 45 yards. Now I know what you are thinking... why the hell would they make the debuff component dispellable as well, considering the aura seems to reapply the debuff any time a target reenters the 20 yard range. Well I haven't a clue. Hence why I think whoever is making these changes doesn't fully understand how Demonology works atm. I will be really suprised if they let these changes go live as it is.

don't be surprised, after some info regarding blizzard's staff concerning pvp was provided to us it seems a lot of the small details regarding pvp eludes them, so do not really be surprised if they release things as they are, but what can we do really...we just have to deal with it I guess :/

[NPSlow]

Honestly if I wanted aura of enfeeblement up I was reapplying every 30s or sooner already. If I wanted to burst someone down I would curse them specifically with elements.

I can see this obviously affecting my pvp, but not so drastic as to change my playstyle.

Feeble aura is still 1gcd and a little resource to debuff an entire enemy team. Still sexy.

Edit - it's a huge shame the nerf won't let you stack a curse and an aura, especially since one is a curse and the other a magic effect >

[Kripthmaul]

Dear reader, Here is my question. Or rather, situation.

1-Arena starts.
2-drop gateway
3-put circle
4-Meta for aura, remove.
5-????????
6-build demonic power
7-wait for my ret pally to call the " I'M popping my CD's"
8-Meta, darksoul+trinket, CW x2, spam (whatever shadow bolt meta has)

Usually a win.( With some CC in between those points)

Now my question is point 5....Beside heavy burst, and building power for said burst...I feel useless as crap DPS wise. Corruption ticks for garbage, shadow bolts....not so much...

So my question is....Is there something I can do dps while not bursting? Or should I " STFU you burst enough already has it is"

Thank you, sincerly, Warlock next door.

[NPSlow]

Well you could really just remove point 5 and drop the whole list down a notch. You can't very much burst in Meta form without a nice fat bar of fury.

My suggestions would be:
Set enemy healer to focus. Interrupt important abilities with fear/knock back/ stun. Kill opportunities will be a lot faster/easier to come by when you have control on the heals. You know this.
In caster form you get Fury for only a few things, pet attacks corruption ticks being a big portion. I like to throw instant fel flames as filler when I know casting a shadow bolt will get a kick or attract a silence. The DPS and Fury/s is about equal to shadowbolts but it costs more mana and is of course safer.
Deal with threats to yourself. Dropping my portal around the map as needed, enfeebling big damage dealers, reapplying dots (they fall off, all the time)

And of course capitalize on free moments with burst. Meta does a lot of on-demand pressure even without your CDs up.

[Simplexity]

Yeah it does feel a bit underwhelming, but in all honestly all warlock specs are pretty reliant on Dark Soul to bring significant pressure. You do want to try to burst or "mini-burst" by just doing the same thing that you do when you use Dark Soul but don't use Dark Soul - you can still do decent damage when you have the fury and CC to do it. In general you want to force trinkets/tremor totems and such with CC, and then go hard with your cooldowns.

Just build fury as quick as possible and keep your aura up and CC to stop damage. Also use this time to CC and do non-DS bursts to force cooldowns. So while you aren't going to get a kill when you're in caster form, you should still be able to force cooldowns without using Dark Soul.

[wholol]

Dear reader, Here is my question. Or rather, situation.

1-Arena starts.
2-drop gateway
3-put circle
4-Meta for aura, remove.
5-????????
6-build demonic power
7-wait for my ret pally to call the " I'M popping my CD's"
8-Meta, darksoul+trinket, CW x2, spam (whatever shadow bolt meta has)

Usually a win.( With some CC in between those points)

Now my question is point 5....Beside heavy burst, and building power for said burst...I feel useless as crap DPS wise. Corruption ticks for garbage, shadow bolts....not so much...

So my question is....Is there something I can do dps while not bursting? Or should I " STFU you burst enough already has it is"

Thank you, sincerly, Warlock next door.

don't cast shadowbolt, period.

felflame is your filler and main attack outside everything, keep corruption on as many targets as possible, doom is optional( you decide if you can pull it off for it to tick or whether or not it will be dispelled and thus be a total waste of fury).

basically corruption + your pet's damage and felflame fillers should do okay'ish damage.

also, try to squeeze in molten core procced soulfires if you're not focused.