Garrosh would have lost the war already if.. *spoilers*

[Deleted]

Varian succeeded in bringing the blood elves back into the alliance.

Putting aside that garrosh's biggest win (theramore) was thanks to BE technology, think about it- BEs join the Alliance. Sylvanas is already scared of the Alliance attacking the Forsaken in tides of war, and now she loses her only ally in the region. Horde loses lordaeron, Horde loses Quel'thalas, EK becomes Alliance territory. this is really bad for Garrosh- he has only one front to fight on now, and the alliance no longer has to worry about the EK.

With the BEs back, they get Dalaran back anyway after Varian tells Lor'themar to weed out the sunreavers responsible for theramore (instead of jaina going apeshit). the tauren and trolls would probably follow Lor'themar's example, to be honest, since they HATE garrosh, if the horde lost EK.. so what else does garrosh have? Org? Alliance forces attack from EK (sin'dorei and dalaran included), night elves from ashenvale, and garrosh gets stomped. war over.

Imo jaina screwed up bigtime. she could have won the war for the alliance in one stroke if she didn't attack the blood elves people and push them back to Horde, every logical outcome points the Alliance steamrolling Garrosh on their own if they succeeded in the EK. Its a domino effect- Anasterian destroyed the Alliance of Lordaeron when he left after the second war. Lor'themar would have set off the biggest win for the Alliance ever if he joined it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't think Garrosh would of won easily despite people wanting to believe the Horde is this god mode force and the second coming of an Azerothian Jesus. I really doubt the Blood Elves were the deciding factor.

[Arbs]

Jaina Dun goofed

[Zaelsino]

To be fair, Jaina had no way of knowing. She was leading a neutral faction and -- by the sound of it -- taking great pride in doing so; Varian had no reason to involve her yet. Then the purge happens and... yeah.

Though Garrosh is even worse than Anasterian when it comes to treating his allies. If he had any competent advisors left then he would've seen this sort of betrayal coming.

[Justignoreme]

As much as I love Belves and would like to see all Elves on one side, to think that upon bringing the Blood Elves into the Alliance Varian would immediately order them to mobilise against Undercity would simply not work in any capacity. The whole reason Lor'themar was sick of the Horde was because Garrosh was treating his people like worthless cannon fodder. It would sting twice as hard having another human do that right after you re-established an *Alliance* with them. Throwing Blood Elves against the Forsaken would be just that, treating them as cannon fodder fighting a proxy war.

[Telwar]

It'd be a long shot at best. The Blood Elves, *at best,* might go neutral. That's their natural inclination, anyway.


Also, to be honest, you don't want to accept your enemy's traitor into your midst. They've already proved faithless once, so they probably will again.

[Justignoreme]

I can't really see Lor'themar indicting all of humanity for the Sunreavers round up. I'm sure once he catches wind of their involvement in Theramore, he'd realise just what the Dalaran fiasco was about. Seeing the Blood Elves go neutral would be a grand change to everything in the game, and something I'd love to see, for my blood elf toons especially.

[checking facts]

To be fair, Jaina had no way of knowing. She was leading a neutral faction and -- by the sound of it -- taking great pride in doing so; Varian had no reason to involve her yet. Then the purge happens and... yeah.

Though Garrosh is even worse than Anasterian when it comes to treating his allies. If he had any competent advisors left then he would've seen this sort of betrayal coming.

this is something I can't understand. ok, she's the leader of a neutral organization and she takes pride on it. than some of her neutral organization help the horde, and her reaction is to kick the whole horde out of her neutral organization and support the alliance?

[Romanthony]

Thing is, if you "Give" the Allaince The Belves, it kinda means blizzard have to not only replace them for Horde with a new race, but also give horde another race to make up for allaince getting another

[yetgdhfgh]

Had pandaria not been discovered its possible thanks to the fall of theramore that the horde couldve seized kalimdor
with its southern flank secured the horde couldve poured everything into ashenvale and drove the nelfs back without supplies and reinforcements from the EK the nelfs couldve been in serious trouble
but with the bulk of the army now in pandaria that can no longer happen

and tbh i dont think garrosh gives a shit about the EK horde he wouldnt lose much sleep to lose the backstabbing forsaken or the fair weather elves

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I can't really see Lor'themar indicting all of humanity for the Sunreavers round up. I'm sure once he catches wind of their involvement in Theramore, he'd realise just what the Dalaran fiasco was about. Seeing the Blood Elves go neutral would be a grand change to everything in the game, and something I'd love to see, for my blood elf toons especially.

Gameplay wise it would be...interesting. Lorewise it's good, gameplay could be...weird.

[Myzou]

this is something I can't understand. ok, she's the leader of a neutral organization and she takes pride on it. than some of her neutral organization help the horde, and her reaction is to kick the whole horde out of her neutral organization and support the alliance?

She did not help the Alliance after becoming neutral with the Kirin'tor. That would betray her sense of neutrality.

There's also a complete difference between aiding one side and allowing one side to enter directly into an enemies capital city through their portals.

[yetgdhfgh]

I can't really see Lor'themar indicting all of humanity for the Sunreavers round up. I'm sure once he catches wind of their involvement in Theramore, he'd realise just what the Dalaran fiasco was about. Seeing the Blood Elves go neutral would be a grand change to everything in the game, and something I'd love to see, for my blood elf toons especially.

Gameplay wise it would be a disaster a huge majority of the horde player base are belfs having them go neutral would create huge faction imbalance

when the dust settles the belfs will still be part of the horde

[Justignoreme]

Gameplay wise it would be...interesting. Lorewise it's good, gameplay could be...weird.

Gameplay its already done with the Pandaren. Revamping the starting zone would need to be done to reflect this but seeing as how blood elves are still talking about *Kael'thas* as their prince on Sunstrider Isle I'd say it's time for an update.

---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 12:49 AM ----------

Gameplay wise it would be a disaster a huge majority of the horde player base are belfs having them go neutral would create huge faction imbalance

No it wouldn't. Every existing Blood Elf will remain Horde. Those who wish to switch can, new players will be given the choice. It's not a hard concept...

[yetgdhfgh]

]No it wouldn't. Every existing Blood Elf will remain Horde. Those who wish to switch can, new players will be given the choice. It's not a hard concept...

that would set a very dangerous precedent cause people will say hey if belfs can switch why cant tauren why cant my gnome be a hordie etc

[Aeluron Lightsong]

that would set a very dangerous precedent cause people will say hey if belfs can switch why cant tauren why cant my gnome be a hordie etc

Slippery Slope fallacy. The problem is Blood Elves would be their own faction. It doesn't work the same with Gnomes and other races.

[Justignoreme]

that would set a very dangerous precedent cause people will say hey if belfs can switch why cant tauren why cant my gnome be a hordie etc

It was a "dangerous precedent" giving players a chance to roll the same race on two factions. This is approaching the exact same thing from a different angle really. A Horde Pandaren is no different from an Alliance one beyond the symbol they flag with. The only difference is there's an existing pool of Blood Elf players vs the newly created one from Pandaren. Plenty of people play Blood Elves because they like to play Blood Elves, myself included, faction is convenience more than anything. Real ID made playing my horde toons a lot less isolated, but I'd prefer having easy access to all my resources which are on the Alliance.

[Florena]

Anasterian destroyed the Alliance of Lordaeron when he left after the second war. Lor'themar would have set off the biggest win for the Alliance ever if he joined it.

..... wait wut?

[Solonar]

Thing is, if you "Give" the Allaince The Belves, it kinda means blizzard have to not only replace them for Horde with a new race, but also give horde another race to make up for allaince getting another

Or you simply hope Blizzard has the balls to let people choose a faction like they did with Pandaren.
Also, Blood Elves never betrayed the Alliance, they WERE betrayed BY the Alliance.

[Florena]

I'd love to see high elves for the Alliance, but I don't see it happening. Though I don't think it would be a big deal, a lot of people feel like 'we already have elves, so no.' And there's also the fact that some people would dislike it due to their similarities to blood elves. So I don't expect to ever see high elves despite them being a part of the Alliance already. Still, wtb horde ogres and alliance high elves.

Anyway more on topic. Losing the blood elves would have been a big blow to the Horde, sure. But I'm not convinced it would be enough on its own to spell Garrosh's doom. Nor is this the only event that had the potential to change the flow of the war.