Heart of fear world firsts heroics thread!

[Tehterokkar]

Kripp is currently streaming, showing the P2 for all those who don't know it, his guild is constantly reaching P2 but dying very soon after

Link: http://www.twitch.tv/nl_kripp

[Tehterokkar]

We're in MSV because we're not risking getting locked.

There is no lockout bug anymore

[Shampro]

Hardest First boss of an instance in the history of WoW? Yes, well, here's what he has to say about it! http://imgur.com/CZfbZ

[Vashi]

Hahaha that img Is it really that bad?

[Tehterokkar]

Hahaha that img Is it really that bad?

You have done the first boss in normal, you know Attenuation, in heroic it even has green blobs that spawn during it to make it harder. Let me introduce you to Phase 2: 2 Attenuations at once with the green blobs. 2 hits = dead raider, GL bro!

[Constraint]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Vanilla raids were extremely easy, players just sucked back then. The only hard raid in vanilla was Naxx 40. And I'm not talking about overtuned and bugged bosses. I'm talking about correctly tuned bosses that had proper mechanics. Back in vanilla and TBC the hardcore guilds didn't raid as much as they do now. It wasn't until late TBC the hardcore guilds woke up early to raid.

Stop talking about things you don't know shit about. You say you seriously doubt that raiders have gotten better. Are you retarded? Of course they have gotten better. Even casuals have become better at the game. You can't compare the vanilla standards to the standards today. People sucked at the game in vanilla. Just look at any old-school PvP movie.

Utter, complete, arrant nonsense. Claiming that EVERYONE sucked back then (and we're talking about the best guilds in the world, Nihilum, Death and Taxes etc is ridiculous. They raided HUGE hours, they were full of amazing players, well-led and well-practiced. Astonishingly enough, it doesn't take years upon years for people to master the mechanics of WoW. It didn't then and it doesn't now. It may for you, but don't speak for everyone else.

Of course Naxx was harder than others. But I presume you weren't around for progression during AQ. Yeah, C'thun was almost completely impossible to kill until fixed, but TE and C'thun were very difficult fights that many good guilds wiped on for months on end. And don't tell me this is nostalgia talking - I was raiding in 2 guilds 6 days a week.

My guilds weren't even CLOSE to world-first, and we raided 4.5 hours every single night except maintenance. And you're telling me it wasn't until late BC that guilds woke up early to raid? LOL! Nice one! I think the overall standard in top tier guilds is no less or no better than it used to be. It was a hell of a lot more difficult to co-ordinate people in 40man vs 25/10man. Again, not nostalgia, I've raid-led both extensively.

People sucked at the game in Vanilla? Nice claim. I presume you're trolling. If it takes longer than a week for you to master a class/spec, and I mean MASTER, you're doing something TERRIBLY wrong. If it takes you longer than another month to get it perfectly while multi-tasking, then it's YOU who SUCK at the game. No offense. Yours is probably the most blatantly foolish post I've read on these or any forums today.

[whatthefudge]

Does HoF require progressing on heroic in order? I assume yes if guilds aren't skipping this and going on to the next ones.

[Tehterokkar]

Does HoF require progressing on heroic in order? I assume yes if guilds aren't skipping this and going on to the next ones.

Well, you'd have to kill the first boss in normal, which means no more tries on him until next week. 2nd(sort of), 3rd and 4th boss are DPS checks also. They need the gear to have any chance at Garalon, he will be the cockblock of the tier unless his HC version is significantly easier than normal in mechanics.

[whatthefudge]

Utter, complete, arrant nonsense. Claiming that EVERYONE sucked back then (and we're talking about the best guilds in the world, Nihilum, Death and Taxes etc is ridiculous. They raided HUGE hours, they were full of amazing players, well-led and well-practiced. Astonishingly enough, it doesn't take years upon years for people to master the mechanics of WoW. It didn't then and it doesn't now. It may for you, but don't speak for everyone else.

Of course Naxx was harder than others. But I presume you weren't around for progression during AQ. Yeah, C'thun was almost completely impossible to kill until fixed, but TE and C'thun were very difficult fights that many good guilds wiped on for months on end. And don't tell me this is nostalgia talking - I was raiding in 2 guilds 6 days a week.

My guilds weren't even CLOSE to world-first, and we raided 4.5 hours every single night except maintenance. And you're telling me it wasn't until late BC that guilds woke up early to raid? LOL! Nice one! I think the overall standard in top tier guilds is no less or no better than it used to be. It was a hell of a lot more difficult to co-ordinate people in 40man vs 25/10man. Again, not nostalgia, I've raid-led both extensively.

People sucked at the game in Vanilla? Nice claim. I presume you're trolling. If it takes longer than a week for you to master a class/spec, and I mean MASTER, you're doing something TERRIBLY wrong. If it takes you longer than another month to get it perfectly while multi-tasking, then it's YOU who SUCK at the game. No offense. Yours is probably the most blatantly foolish post I've read on these or any forums today.

He isn't entirely wrong. The quality of players overall has definitely improved since vanilla. For not any reason other than how easy it is to obtain information about your class and about bosses. Especially early in Vanilla there were very few resources for players to access for strategy information, etc. Things like wowhead and wowwiki/pedia didn't get mainstream until TBC.

Bosses are also more difficult. Blizzard themselves have said this. They are constantly having to find new ways to stress players with difficult boss mechanics because the players are becoming better overall.

This isn't to say there weren't hard or complex bosses in vanilla or that there weren't good guilds in vanilla, because there certainly were, but overall the quality of play of the player base has increased as well as the complexity and difficult of raid bosses.

[Deleted]

the quality of play of the player base has increased

How do you define a "quality player"?

I would say the quality of the playerbase is about the same. There has always been 1% super pro players, 20% decent players, the rest casuals who don't care and mediocre players. Much of the 2005 and 2006 top-end raiders were former EQ players who knew what they were doing. They have made combat faster and DPS rotations more complex over the years, but with tradeoffs like players not having to worry about aggro any more and the combat log working properly so everybody can read step-by-step guides on how to do super dps.

Go wipe on LFR garalon for a few hours and then see if you really think "the quality of players overall has definitely improved"

[Durandro]

Go wipe on LFR garalon for a few hours and then see if you really think "the quality of players overall has definitely improved"

There will always be idiots.

But the core of raiders the game has is significantly better then the core of raiders back in the Molten Core days. You know, back when it was about twenty decent players with twenty others filling the ranks.

The main difference is a lot of the old raiders don't raid anymore. Cutting the chaff, so to speak. The fewer people you have in your group, the more likely you are to have a higher overall standard.

Its why 10 man is considered 'easier' - the best players in the guild will be there, especially in a heroic raiding guild. The fights themselves often aren't easier by design, but its easier to get 10 skilled players then it is to get 25 skilled players.

[Gootgot]

so true silmarilen, i remember the good old days in tbc when killing a boss took weeks, when kael'thas was still up and running when black temple was released and that was when there was no such thing as heroic when everything was on normal. the raiders currently have become complacent and have been dumbed down, sure the bosses are hard but not hard enough and the sense of accomplishment that you had in the old days of naxx(only managed to kill instructor and anub'rekhan but damn it felt good), twin emps(felt so good tanking them and killing them the first time or should i say the only time) kael'thas, lady vashj and sunwell is all but gone but damn they were the good old days when raiding was hard and you actually had to work harder for the kills.

You needed to wait for bug fixes, and you are dumb.

If boss, these days, doesn't die in ~2-3 days tops, he is bugged/overtuned 100%. People are just to good.

[Deleted]

There will always be idiots.

But the core of raiders the game has is significantly better then the core of raiders back in the Molten Core days. You know, back when it was about twenty decent players with twenty others filling the ranks.

Well of course you carried half the raid in Molten Core, it was the first raid. Tiered progression, bro.

Anyways how about this race, eh. Did any guilds try skipping first boss and killing the next 4 yet?

[Swirling Black Lilly]

Did any guilds try skipping first boss and killing the next 4 yet?

Is that possible?

[Lethora]

Its why 10 man is considered 'easier' - the best players in the guild will be there, especially in a heroic raiding guild. The fights themselves often aren't easier by design, but its easier to get 10 skilled players then it is to get 25 skilled players.

Take an example of my current guild. We are by no means awesome, but our 10man group has killed 2 bosses in HoF normal + Stone Guard heroic. The other 10man group is still struggling with Elegon, for like 4th week in a row. If we were running 25man, we would still be stuck @ Elegon.

[Deleted]

Is that possible?

Yes, you just can't do the last boss if you skip. Like a bunch of guilds did heroic Elegon before Spirit Kings

[Shpetznaz]

Is that possible?

It was in MSV.

[Riemu2k3]

Is that possible?

Why shouldn't it be possible? Was possible for every Raid in the past 2 Addons, except for the final bosses. Its still possible for Mogu.

Only reason people are not skipping the first boss is because they cant clear the instance in this ID, leaving them open for other guilds to surpass them at the end of next week.

If you skip a boss, you lose at progress. Unless everyone has to skip that boss.

[Makro]

Go wipe on LFR garalon for a few hours and then see if you really think "the quality of players overall has definitely improved"

You are kinda forgetting that the majority of the players in LFR aren't "raiders" and would have not even tried to kill a boss back in the days.

[Swirling Black Lilly]

yes in MSV you could skip some, but in HoF: is it possible to skip the first boss? (aka run past him)