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  1. #161
    Justice is not revenge.

  2. #162
    Deleted
    I think we should skip the execution entirely. If this someone kills a person, you put him in the fucking deepest dungeon you can find, lock him up and leave. He brought it upon himself. We dont need to be humane. Just put the murderer somewhere, then leave, doesnt cost anything and people wouldnt dare to kill anyone after a while

  3. #163
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Mental issues, vengeance, envy, heat of the moment stuff. Are not reasons to justly take someones life.l
    There is nothing just in murder full-stop.

    And mental issues really? Search for Sabina and Ursula Eriksson for starters. Both of them jumped in front of fast moving traffic on the motorway, twice and one of them went on to kill someone. These women were both mentally unstable, they were delusional and deranged, it would take an extremely cold hearted individual to have them put to death for something out of their control. It was the system that failed these women.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Featherman View Post
    I think we should skip the execution entirely. If this someone kills a person, you put him in the fucking deepest dungeon you can find, lock him up and leave. He brought it upon himself. We dont need to be humane. Just put the murderer somewhere, then leave, doesnt cost anything and people wouldnt dare to kill anyone after a while
    Most murders aren't premeditated, they're heat of the moment things. So how is throwing them in a dungeon going to act as a deterrent to others when they don't think they'll do such a thing in a thousand years?

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    What you are talking about is not Justice, It is revenge bathed in pure hatred. When you act just as bad as the person you are trying to "punish" what is the difference between you and them? Should you then be murdered based on the pain you inflicted?

    No one likes Murderers but we should not become them just because our instincts tell us to get angry. Just be happy they have to face up to their crimes and are not aloud to stay out on the streets. Only a few hundred years back people where killed much more often and the killers got away with it more times than most want to even think about.
    To my mind Justice is balance.
    You kill, you deserve to be killed.

    So far the arguments against have all been platitudes or misguided quotes. They work great in an ideal world but this is real life. There are people out there that will not stand to your morals no matter how you teach them, guide them, help them. These people need ending to send a message to others who would consider being the same.. and that message needs to be loud and clear, You Kill and we (society) will hunt you down and kill you right back.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Just make it faster. An average of 15 years from sentence to execution is a disgustingly long time. Full health care, education, food and board, tv and gym pass on my dollar for 15 months because you killed someone? That just isn't right.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-07 at 04:14 PM ----------



    Then you should pay for the entirety of his prison sentence. Why should I have to? Putting him in jail does nothing positive. We pay for him to be there and then someone else gets rich off guys like him killing someone.

    I never said that prison was the answer either , here's a thought maybe nobody should kill anyone. Why should anyone ever need to die by anothers hand?
    I literally cannot think of a reason.

    Some guy further up put:

    I would only take the life of someone else under 2 circumstances.

    1. They intend to kill me
    2. They intend to kill someone I care about

    Why is said person, trying to kill you or someone you care about? I can think of literally only 2 reasons:

    1) Mental Illness
    2) You provoked them

    Neither justifies murder, but for 1), Killing them is kinda not the answer. They should have been treated for the illness, or psychological assistance to help reduce severity of symptoms and for 2) What have you done to provoke them? Sure calling someone names doesn't justify murder, but the act of provocation in the first place is wrong.

    Prison is a storage room for criminals and a deterrent, it's a rubbish system. Work on prevention not a cure.

  7. #167
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goobernoob View Post
    I honestly think the best way to execute someone would be a bullet to the back of the head, but not because its violent, because it would be fast and painless. Give them their last meal, put a .45 on the back of their skull while they are eating and pull the trigger, the only issue would be open casket burials. Sounds like the most humane way to me, no anticipation or pain.

    there is no point in making someone suffer, we aren't trying to get information from them, no one would benefit. executions are for one of two reasons: 1. you do not feel confident you can prevent them from harming more people or 2. you do not have the resources to spare to keep them alive.

    1 would apply to folks like bin laden, his continued survival would have just caused harm in my opinion, even if he was in custody.
    Bin Laden will be forever touted as a martyr by al-Qaeda and while his death and extremely dangerous people like him are the only reason I would say any form of homicide is anywhere close to being acceptable, I cannot help but wonder if it would have been much more beneficial to the fight against religious extremism for him to have been captured and imprisoned. If he was in custody instead of at the bottom of the sea maybe he could have been talked to.

  8. #168
    Stood in the Fire Tayace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soloedalysrazoronwarrior View Post
    Let's try and keep the discussion civil, everyone.


    I am getting sick of all this "but he is a human we must treat him humanely" crap.
    Ok ok YOU did not treat your victims humanely when you slashed his through or blew a hole through his head WHY SHOULD YOUR DEATH BE PAINLESS? ANSWER ME!

    you call this JUSTICE? What is JUSTICE? it is when you are FORCED to suffer at least as much as the victim suffered THAT is the fundamental definition of "Justice".
    We need to stop with all this "Humane" crap and start giving lethal injections with the murderer fully awake so he will feel the entire process and get to know the worthless piece of trash he is.
    Murderers should not be treated as human. They are sub-human and should be treated like dirt. A mouse trap kills a mouse in agony, a murderer is given a death sentence UNCONSCIOUS! so he does not feel ANY PAIN! Im sorry but I value the mice over the Murderer.

    STOP GIVING HUMANE DEATH SENTENCES. Give it to them AWAKE!
    What you are seeking is Vengeance not Justice. Someone must have hurt you rather bad to make you feel this way and i am sorry. But to lose ones principles of right and wrong only means that more has been taken from you. Justice must not be used as a method of revenge, it is meant to punish the offender. In some places the death penalty exists yes. That is the decision of the people who live in those areas and is not the focus of the discussion. But in cases where the death penalty is given the reason for it is normally that the crime and the level of the crime committed is beyond the offenders ability to make up for. He won't be able to be rehabilitated back into society after what he has done. In such cases the judge gets to make the choice of sending him/her to prison indefinitely or giving the death penalty. The death penalty is of course favored over the other option as it is less of a drain on resources. The point of all this though is me trying to explain that the death penalty is not meant to be revenge of any kind. The offender loses his rights his free will and his life, but from what i have read you wish his last moments to be filled with pain of some kind. Revenge is an endless cycle, by suggesting such a thing are you not bringing yourself down to the same level as the offender? And what is it we mean when we say "humane"? Are speaking of the treatment towards something/someone? The answer is both yes and no. The concern over doing things humanely is of course concern for the effects of our actions. But our actions don't just effect others, they also effect ourselves. Imagine what would happen to those who administer the injections if they knew that that person would suffer unimaginable pain before they died. The very people charged with bringing closure and peace to the families of victims would all of a sudden be plagued with moral struggles and perhaps guilt. Overtime would this not simply cause even more emotional damage? Have we not as a race seen the effects of such uncivilized laws throughout history? Your pain may be great and i know from personal experience that losing a loved one leaves a gap in you forever. But to act in rage will only cause more pain to yourself and those around you.
    Last edited by Tayace; 2012-11-08 at 12:51 AM.

  9. #169
    The world is black and white.
    You seem to be under the impression that everyone shares the same culture or values as you. If it was that way, we wouldn't be discussing such subject in the first place.

    No, the world isn't black and white.

    A soldier killing an enemy because he intends to kill others is not.
    Taking someones life unjustly, makes you a murderer.
    Have you ever thought that both soldiers were fighting for a better future? That they die fighting for what they believe is right? That the reason they intended to kill each other is because someone in a high seat of power screwed up? That they are trained to see other factions as enemies and not as human beings? That both sides have wives/husbands/children/parents that will mourn their loss? That believing that killing is justified only leads to a cycle of endless violence? Do you really believe in such an argument that has been used for generations by the biggest warmongers that could ever exist to justify their petty, selfish wars?

    Mental issues, vengeance, envy, heat of the moment stuff. Are not reasons to justly take someones life.
    But it happens, and you would do it too if pushed to the very limits.


    Under the right circumstance, how about listing those circumstance instead of blindly saying that.
    Your family is starving. You need to feed them in any way you can. You can't get a job, you can't get food from welfare. No one will help you. You decide you have to steal. You try to assault someone's shop, and you bring a gun just to threaten the owner, because you believe you could never actually kill a human being. Then he shows up with an even bigger gun. Feeling that your life is hanging in the balance, and feeling to pressured to rationalize, the first action that your brain produces is to shoot the gun. You kill the guy.

    Just one example. It might work for you, it might not. But everyone has something that will make them just lose their grip. Everyone. Greed, thirst for vengeance, need, etc.

    I would only take the life of someone else under 2 circumstances.

    1. They intend to kill me
    2. They intend to kill someone I care about

    Neither of those circumstances is murder. As long as I have proof it was self defense. lol
    You can call it an helicopter if you'd like. Killing is killing, no matter what name you give it. If you were truly religious, and you truly care about your purity of soul, you would be aware of it.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by igame View Post
    Yes and you fight fire with fire. I would happily be labelled evil for wanting revenge.
    I am with you OP. The laws are only there to protect the rich, the corrupt and the evil.
    Yea or the innocent.

    And fight fire with fucking water... Or flame retardant foam... Fighting fire with fire is only a good idea a few instances far and between!

  11. #171
    Lethal injection is for pussies. If I've got to die, give me a firing squad.

  12. #172
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    We could skip the whole process and just put a bullet (cost like 5dollars) in his neck, a lot cheaper than keeping em alive for DEATHrow for 5-15 years.
    Prisoners on DEATHrow gets better treatment than old ppl at retirement homes, it boggles my mind
    R I P old signature.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Lethal injection is for pussies. If I've got to die, give me a firing squad.
    I would rather have it be death by spoon...


    ---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 01:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    We could skip the whole process and just put a bullet (cost like 5dollars) in his neck, a lot cheaper than keeping em alive for DEATHrow for 5-15 years.
    Prisoners on DEATHrow gets better treatment than old ppl at retirement homes, it boggles my mind
    Yea, maybe you guys should treat your old people better.

  14. #174
    Prisoners on DEATHrow gets better treatment than old ppl at retirement homes, it boggles my mind
    The problem here isn't prisoners on death row being treated too well, but old people at retirement homes being treated poorly.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    Bin Laden will be forever touted as a martyr by al-Qaeda and while his death and extremely dangerous people like him are the only reason I would say any form of homicide is anywhere close to being acceptable, I cannot help but wonder if it would have been much more beneficial to the fight against religious extremism for him to have been captured and imprisoned. If he was in custody instead of at the bottom of the sea maybe he could have been talked to.
    I doubt it, not within our laws. we would have had to break and reeducate him over several years.
    Proud member of the zero infraction club (lets see how long this can last =)

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Istaril View Post
    Most murders aren't premeditated, they're heat of the moment things. So how is throwing them in a dungeon going to act as a deterrent to others when they don't think they'll do such a thing in a thousand years?
    Murders without premeditation don't get the death penalty.

    OT:As others have said, causing the murderer pain isn't justice, it's vengeance. The reason the death penalty exists isn't specifically to punish the murderer, it's to remove someone who would kill in cold blood from society, to prevent further harm.

    Gotta let go of that hate, man, it'll only make you miserable.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincey View Post
    To my mind Justice is balance.
    You kill, you deserve to be killed.

    So far the arguments against have all been platitudes or misguided quotes. They work great in an ideal world but this is real life. There are people out there that will not stand to your morals no matter how you teach them, guide them, help them. These people need ending to send a message to others who would consider being the same.. and that message needs to be loud and clear, You Kill and we (society) will hunt you down and kill you right back.
    Well there is a difference between the current death sentence and what the Op is talking about. That is what I was commenting on. There is no need to stoop to the same level that the murderer was on and the Op wants to do that.

    Also, while the Death sentence and life in prison does work to stop people from killing or seriously hurting someone there are just some people with mental issues and don't have the ability to think about what they are doing. That doesn't make it right but there is a difference.

  18. #178
    Pit Lord Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    All the countries in the world should pitch in some money, buy a massive Island somewhere, make it impossible to escape and just exile murders and rapists on the island, rather than kill them.
    This way, we leave it to nature.
    Also the Island will be used as a weapons testing facility

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kivimetsan View Post
    All the countries in the world should pitch in some money, buy a massive Island somewhere, make it impossible to escape and just exile murders and rapists on the island, rather than kill them.
    This way, we leave it to nature.
    Also the Island will be used as a weapons testing facility
    ive seen that movie... and that other movie that was basically the same thing... and that other movie...

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Man this is worthy of a sig.

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