WHY Lethal Injections NEED to be given WITH the Murderer AWAKE!

[Deleted]

Let's try and keep the discussion civil, everyone.


I am getting sick of all this "but he is a human we must treat him humanely" crap.
Ok ok YOU did not treat your victims humanely when you slashed his through or blew a hole through his head WHY SHOULD YOUR DEATH BE PAINLESS? ANSWER ME!

you call this JUSTICE? What is JUSTICE? it is when you are FORCED to suffer at least as much as the victim suffered THAT is the fundamental definition of "Justice".
We need to stop with all this "Humane" crap and start giving lethal injections with the murderer fully awake so he will feel the entire process and get to know the worthless piece of trash he is.
Murderers should not be treated as human. They are sub-human and should be treated like dirt. A mouse trap kills a mouse in agony, a murderer is given a death sentence UNCONSCIOUS! so he does not feel ANY PAIN! Im sorry but I value the mice over the Murderer.

STOP GIVING HUMANE DEATH SENTENCES. Give it to them AWAKE!

Because its a justice system, not vengence. And death penalties are wrong anyway as most civilised societies have realised, I take it you are american, do you really enjoy your country being onthe same moral standing as countries like Iran and N.Korea?
oh, and get some help, you really need it.

[Radoria]

To say I'm stunned by soloedalysrazoronwarrior's original post is an understatement. He sounds like a monster akin to the murderer he wants to cause pain to. Some of the convicted murderers are actually innocent of their crimes, so if they're given the death penalty in the manner soloedalysrazoronwarrior describes, we are not only causing torment to an innocent person, we are stooping to the real murderer's level (who is still roaming free). Even if the accused is guilty of the crime, it is wrong to treat them the same way they treated another person. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Yeah you'll have some innocent people die some pretty gruesome deaths, but there's no way to filter all of the innocent ones out of there. Same goes for our system today.

And what would you have done to someone like Ted Bundy? Give him a slap on the wrist? Tell him it's not nice to go around luring young, innocent girls to his car and then bashing their brains in with a log so he can screw them even after they're dead? There's nothing you can do for these people. One way or another they turned evil and nothing will ever bring them back so the best thing you can do is kill the shit out of them once you catch them. Their victims received no mercy so neither do they.

[Mormolyce]

That's not actually true. Ever heard of Vlad the Impaler? It was said that during his reign, one could leave a cup of solid gold in the middle of the street and no one would take it.

The reason, every crime was punishable by death. And it was a horribly painful death. Spoiler for the graphics details. He impaled people on spikes. Through the butthole for men, and through the vagina for women.

Not that I approve of such barbarism.

Vlad the Impaler is remembered either as a vicious bloodthirsty tyrant or a glorious hero depending on what you read (no doubt heavily influenced by the political position of the original writer), I think anything said of him is somewhat suspect.

The story of the golden chalice was that he placed it himself and anyone could use it but no-one ever dared to steal it. And Wallachia at the time was overrun with bandits. It's a nice story but undoubtedly just that, a story.

[Radoria]

Because its a justice system, not vengence. And death penalties are wrong anyway as most civilised societies have realised, I take it you are american, do you really enjoy your country being onthe same moral standing as countries like Iran and N.Korea?
oh, and get some help, you really need it.

Me and many other people consider vengeance to be a form of justice. And where the hell do you get off comparing the moral standing of America to that of North Korea and Iran...? I'll admit our government is corrupt as all hell, but not in the same league as North Korea and Iran.

"And death penalties are wrong anyway as most civilised societies have realised," Do you have a "Z" key on your keyboard? And are you able to read this text way up there on your high horse?

[Bakis]

Me and many other people consider vengeance to be a form of justice. And where the hell do you get off comparing the moral standing of America to that of North Korea and Iran...? I'll admit our government is corrupt as all hell, but not in the same league as North Korea and Iran.

"And death penalties are wrong anyway as most civilised societies have realised," Do you have a "Z" key on your keyboard? And are you able to read this text way up there on your high horse?

I can tolerate your view but not understand it.
You are one of those people who happily accept innocent people being put to death.
You can have whatever opinion you want about the death penalty but it cant erase that YOU are okey with innocent people being put to death.

North Korea make sense, they dont care either, neither does you if you have any knowledge whatsoever about the system. and logic.

[Laize]

I can tolerate your view but not understand it.
You are one of those people who happily accept innocent people being put to death.
You can have whatever opinion you want about the death penalty but it cant erase that YOU are okey with innocent people being put to death.

North Korea make sense, they dont care either, neither does you if you have any knowledge whatsoever about the system. and logic.

I would rather tighten situations in which the death penalty were applicable (people likely to re-offend, repeat offenders, multiple murderers, etc).

Get rid of it entirely? Absolutely not.

[Bakis]

I would rather tighten situations in which the death penalty were applicable (people likely to re-offend, repeat offenders, multiple murderers, etc).

Get rid of it entirely? Absolutely not.

Doesn't remove the effect of human error in the judicial system that put innocent people to death on a regular basis.
If the urge for vengeance is greater than not accepting innocent people being put to death, then be pro-capital punishment.
If not, welcome to the 21st century, it is really as simple as that.

[Deadvolcanoes]

I agree completely. Whoever it is that administers the lethal injection should definitely be awake when they do it...

Murdering murderers. A humanistic trait that never seems to die. Pun intended.

[Atrea]

Anyone who has ever watched a show like Breaking Bad, or saw Heath Ledger's amazing performance of The Joker, knows that the difference between an 'ordinary citizen' and 'a murderer' is nothing more than circumstance.

I refuse to believe that anyone could say with certainty that they could never be put in a position where taking another person's life is off the table.

All it takes is the right (wrong?) set of circumstances. Granted, that breaking point, as it were, is different for everyone - but everyone has it.

Once you come to terms with this realization, you stop viewing killers as 'sub-human'. They are, as Gryphh pointed out earlier in this thread, very much human. And like all humans, they make mistakes. Terrible mistakes, to be sure - but that is the nature of our species.

[Deleted]

The thing is that people lie. Vengeance and instant-justice are all fun & games as long as you are not on the receiving end and considering how corrupt the legal system is even today, we would be thrown into full anarchy even faster. Lots of innocent people are already losing their lives due to framing/false sexual abuse accusations with nothing against them, but being in the wrong place at the wrong time and another persons "word". There's is already enough police shootings and brutality, can't believe people want to make it legal.

Death penalties for all crimes wouldn't really create a safer society either. The world will always have desperate people who end up doing crimes. Making crimes punishments equal turns muggings into murders. If the your going to die for your crime anyways, why not make a harsher one?

My own choice for the serious lifers and death row inmates who have been found very guilty, would be that exile island thing. If they can't abide by our laws, they can live in their own island and make their own.

(Disclaimer: This post contains an opinion by the poster and it is not assumed to be a fact and nor shall it be considered as one. The poster also acknowledges it is only his opinion and does not need a confirmation of that. The poster has also not agreed to any legal documents requiring perfect spelling or grammar of words and can't be held liable for such mistakes in this post. Notification of typographical errors is also unnecessary and could be considered trolling.)

[Bakis]

I agree completely. Whoever it is that administers the lethal injection should definitely be awake when they do it...

Murdering murderers. A humanistic trait that never seems to die. Pun intended.

Even if innocent?

[Radoria]

I can tolerate your view but not understand it.
You are one of those people who happily accept innocent people being put to death.
You can have whatever opinion you want about the death penalty but it cant erase that YOU are okey with innocent people being put to death.

North Korea make sense, they dont care either, neither does you if you have any knowledge whatsoever about the system. and logic.

At no point in any of my posts did I say anything about being happy to put innocent people to death. I did say in one of my posts that it's something you can't avoid as long as the death penalty exists. You're going to have a few cases like in the Shawshank Redemption where all the evidence points toward an innocent man and he ends up getting fried for something he didn't do. And that's a horrible thing. But it can't be helped. Besides, these same innocent people are going to spend life in prison or in a nuthouse or something either which way. You have to quarantine them from society one way or another. Some people would even argue that they would rather die than be in prison for the rest of their life.

I don't consider killing them to be "stooping to their level" or anything like that. If they hadn't done whatever they did to get there, then they wouldn't be in such a bad position to start with. Their victims received no mercy and so neither do they. Again, you're gonna have a few cases here and there where an innocent man is put to death for something he didn't do, but even in virtually any form of law in the world they're going to get life in prison, which might be worse than death. It can't be helped.

[Atrea]

The thing is that people lie. Vengeance and instant-justice are all fun & games as long as you are not on the receiving end and considering how corrupt the legal system is even today, we would be thrown into full anarchy even faster. Lots of innocent people are already losing their lives due to framing/false sexual abuse accusations with nothing against them, but being in the wrong place at the wrong time and another persons "word". There's is already enough police shootings and brutality, can't believe people want to make it legal.

Death penalties for all crimes wouldn't really create a safer society either. The world will always have desperate people who end up doing crimes. Making crimes punishments equal turns muggings into murders. If the your going to die for your crime anyways, why not make a harsher one?

My own choice for the serious lifers and death row inmates who have been found very guilty, would be that exile island thing. If they can't abide by our laws, they can live in their own island and make their own.

(Disclaimer: This post contains an opinion by the poster and it is not assumed to be a fact and nor shall it be considered as one. The poster also acknowledges it is only his opinion and does not need a confirmation of that. The poster has also not agreed to any legal documents requiring perfect spelling or grammar of words and can't be held liable for such mistakes in this post. Notification of typographical errors is also unnecessary and could be considered trolling.)

You touch on a very key point here: that using the punishment as a deterrent doesn't work in most cases.

And that's a very important thing to note: the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent. People still commit all manner of crimes that may incur it, consequences be damned.

What this tells us is that in some cases (obviously not all), the threat of being put to death is not enough to stop a person from committing a crime.
If you further expand this idea to include non-capital punishments, you will see this proven again - people still commit crimes, even if they know the consequences are rather severe.

This is important to recognize, because it shows us that the retributive form of "justice" we apply in this day and age is not meant to dissuade or rehabilitate, but simply to punish offenders. It doesn't work.

[Laize]

Doesn't remove the effect of human error in the judicial system that put innocent people to death on a regular basis.
If the urge for vengeance is greater than not accepting innocent people being put to death, then be pro-capital punishment.
If not, welcome to the 21st century, it is really as simple as that.

Look, if you want to sit over in Sweden and judge us for how we do things that's your prerogative. We'll sit over here and continue to not care what you think of us. You guys have a pretty funny way of doing things from our point of view, anyway.

[Catta]

Look, if you want to sit over in Sweden and judge us for how we do things that's your prerogative. We'll sit over here and continue to not care what you think of us. You guys have a pretty funny way of doing things from our point of view, anyway.

Who are "we"? Its not even your whole country using the death penalty so its not just the rest of the western world but also parts of your own country.

[Bakis]

Look, if you want to sit over in Sweden and judge us for how we do things that's your prerogative. We'll sit over here and continue to not care what you think of us. You guys have a pretty funny way of doing things from our point of view, anyway.

Here it comes, the I'm an murrican blabla bla.. Anything else to object to, like for example my objection towards innocents being put to death.
Doesnt matter if its in the US, Japan or whatever. Do you aknowledge that innocent people have been put to death or not?
For the sake of discussion, lets talk about some states in the US or you will probably be offended.

[Laize]

Who are "we"? Its not even your whole country using the death penalty so its not just the rest of the western world but also parts of your own country.

Yeah. That's kinda how we do things over here. We're not ubiquitous. Each state does its own thing and doesn't purport to speak for the country as a whole.

We're pretty much the European Union before federalism was cool (Don't even try and tell me the EU isn't a precursor to a federalist state).

[Radoria]

Here it comes, the I'm an murrican blabla bla.. Anything else to object to, like for example my objection towards innocents being put to death.
Doesnt matter if its in the US, Japan or whatever. Do you aknowledge that innocent people have been put to death or not?
For the sake of discussion, lets talk about the US or you will probably be offended.

Yes, we acknowledge that innocent people are put to death just like you need to acknowledge that places that don't have capital punishment put innocent people in prison for the rest of their lives which is arguably worse than death. Do you honestly believe there is any possible way to keep EVERYONE out of prison who doesn't belong there? There are thousands upon thousands of murders and other horrifying crimes every single year. How could you possibly solve ALL of them correctly? This isn't Matlock or Murder She Wrote...sometimes the killer gets away with murder and there's nothing you can do about it. And sometimes, like you're describing, an innocent man pays for it. However, IT CAN'T BE HELPED! You can't solve every crime to perfection. Sometimes the evidence just isn't there.

[Atrea]

Look, if you want to sit over in Sweden and judge us for how we do things that's your prerogative. We'll sit over here and continue to not care what you think of us. You guys have a pretty funny way of doing things from our point of view, anyway.

It isn't just Sweden - it's pretty much the rest of the civilized world that feels this way.

[Laize]

Here it comes, the I'm an murrican blabla bla.. Anything else to object to, like for example my objection towards innocents being put to death.
Doesnt matter if its in the US, Japan or whatever. Do you aknowledge that innocent people have been put to death or not?
For the sake of discussion, lets talk about some states in the US or you will probably be offended.

No, there's no "Murica" here. It's purely my opinion.

We have states that decline to impose the death penalty. That's their prerogative and no one (but some of their own citizens) cares that they exercise it.

Our way is to leave it up to the states to decide most things. We recognize a country of 320+ million people can't be accurately represented by a single government.

If you're offended by the fact that we execute the worst of the worst, go right ahead and be offended.

I just take exception to the fact that you're not American and attempt to pass judgement on us.