Poll: Is Garrosh a suitable Leader?

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  1. #221
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    The problem with peace hippies like Trask and other guys who think garrosh is evuul (omg hes evull... damn) is that they are not guys of competition.
    Theres no sweeter thing than to have a 2400 player at your feet lying defeated in the arena.... make him an alliance player and its 10 times better.
    Theres no sweeter thing than to break you dirrect guild opponent, make that alliance guild and its 10 times better.
    Theres no sweeter thing than to break your opponent on the dps meter!

    Garrosh is a competitive guy (lorewise) and thats why i like him, his father Grom Hellscream was eager to crush anyone who would be so mad to stand in his way, thats why he is one of my favorite characters.

    Trask and other "horde" dudes you are not competitive and you forget Horde's main WARCALL: "Victory or Death!"

    True Horde players know what im talking about!

  2. #222
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Well the quote actually raises the question of whether a noble final act can redeem all the evil in one's life, and the answer given is 'no, it doesn't.' Not sure I 100% agree with this perspective, but it adds an interesting topic to characters like Grom and Darth Vader. Does that final act of sacrifice really redeem them?

    The book is The Black Prism, first in Brent Week's Lightbringer trilogy. But I've only just started reading it, and I'm sore other books have raised that question long before this one.
    It shows they have a level of decency hidden deep inside them. Does it as you say redeem there actions and a lifetime of wickedness? No, the conclusion isn't a black and white scenario.

    If you could lump characters into different containers, ones like Thrall, Anduin, Malfurion and Baine go in one on the left, characters like old gods, the legion and twilight hammer in another on the right, and then theres an assortment of other containers, some held more to the left, some held more to the right.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 07:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by keksplace View Post
    The problem with peace hippies like Trask and other guys who think garrosh is evuul (omg hes evull... damn) is that they are not guys of competition.
    Theres no sweeter thing than to have a 2400 player at your feet lying defeated in the arena.... make him an alliance player and its 10 times better.
    Theres no sweeter thing than to break you dirrect guild opponent, make that alliance guild and its 10 times better.
    Theres no sweeter thing than to break you opponent on the dps meter!

    Garrosh is a competitive guy (lorewise) and thats why i like him, his father Grom Hellscream was eager to crush anyone who would be so mad to stand in his way, thats why he is one of my favorite characters.

    Trask and other "horde" dudes you are not competitive and you forget Horde's main WARCALL: "Victory or Death!"
    First off, you pretty ignorant if you fail to understand what I've been saying all though this.
    Second, you purposely ignore what so many have pointed out about why Garrosh is such a bad character, and yet you think his faults are interesting because it appeals you some negative perception of how you view things.

    You have a one dimensional way of looking at the horde, its history, the mistakes of its past. but then you probably never will understand why those mistakes of the past were relevant.
    #boycottchina

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    It shows they have a level of decency hidden deep inside them. Does it as you say redeem there actions and a lifetime of wickedness? No, the conclusion isn't a black and white scenario.

    If you could lump characters into different containers, ones like Thrall, Anduin, Malfurion and Baine go in one on the left, characters like old gods, the legion and twilight hammer in another on the right, and then theres an assortment of other containers, some held more to the left, some held more to the right.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 07:45 PM ----------



    First off, you pretty ignorant if you fail to understand what I've been saying all though this.
    Second, you purposely ignore what so many have pointed out about why Garrosh is such a bad character, and yet you think his faults are interesting because it appeals you some negative perception of how you view things.

    You have a one dimensional way of looking at the horde, its history, the mistakes of its past. but then you probably never will understand why those mistakes of the past were relevant.
    Tell me what mistakes of the past?
    I tell you what mistakes... think about it.. would Grom Hellscream want to anihilate the night elves after their puny surprise attack on him? YES
    Thrall would listen to him? NO

    If hed listen with Cenarius broken down the night elves would have been surely at the peak of extinction? And we would defend Azeroth from BL without their weak assistance.



    What other mistake? When humans were at the peak of extinction (along with dwarves because they were allied) at the hands of Doomhammer? When Gul'dan betrayed the Horde (god damn what luck... like winning the lottery)?

    What other mistake? When draeneis were at peak of extinction on Draenor? When Velen (probably the character you like) was piss-scared of Gul'dan?
    When Gul'dan could destroy Velens entire puny race in one spell (like he destroyed the arrakoa)?


    Alliance can thank Elune or w/e stupid gods they have, that Gul'dan was not loyal to the Horde... for alliance was no more now.
    Last edited by mmoc68976ba3b0; 2012-11-11 at 08:21 PM.

  4. #224
    Keksplace you still fail to get it through your thick skull. THE 95% OF THE POPULATION of Warcraft are peace hippies as you call them. Do you understand that you, Dreknar, Carpenter, Raubez and many others I remember are the minority and you will never have what you want because every game doesn't work like you think it works. In the case of Warcraft the Horde were the aggressors and the war they want to do with Azeroth cannot be won. It's not the Alliance only. All of the Neutral Factions are Alliance Based. Their mission is to protect Azeroth from every threat. You need to understand that the Horde will eventually lose everything like they did in the Second War.

    Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And in your case it's gonna be fun turning your Warchief into Muffins and all you followers into Cupcakes in the Siege of Orgrimmar.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post

    Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And in your case it's gonna be fun turning your Warchief into Muffins and all you followers into Cupcakes in the Siege of Orgrimmar.
    I wish id have the chance to oppose, and see how you would turn me into cupcake, youd need to call the other 24 of your so called raiders to bring me down pup.
    If you would come alone, you could consider me a BOSS.

    Last edited by mmoc68976ba3b0; 2012-11-11 at 08:29 PM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    If it's that "I won't let my people starve in the desert" thing, I don't buy it. It's never even been established that his people are starving in the desert. Seems like one of the writers was just pulling an excuse for his dickery out of their ass.
    i remember someone who was also evil using that excuse... hmmm who could it be... OH YEAH GANONDORF THE DEMON KING @_@
    Last edited by Immitis; 2012-11-11 at 08:54 PM.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  7. #227
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    In mmo's i usualy detach myself from major npc's. why? Due to game mechanics they are impossible to appreciate as a whole, they are always vulnerable to silly twists or to serve as lore bandage or even to satisfy players whims (plus to many writers). Its not like Vader or let's say Aragorn. Even if their story wasn't planned since the bigining, they always had a consistent progression trough their existence. I find mmo's to volatile lore speaking. just my 2 cents =)

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Pesthos View Post
    In mmo's i usualy detach myself from major npc's. why? Due to game mechanics they are impossible to appreciate as a whole, they are always vulnerable to silly twists or to serve as lore bandage or even to satisfy players whims (plus to many writers). Its not like Vader or let's say Aragorn. Even if their story wasn't planned since the bigining, they always had a consistent progression trough their existence. I find mmo's to volatile lore speaking. just my 2 cents =)
    Very good point. Most characters developed in WoW have very choppy story telling with little to no coherency to how they came to where they are and where they're from. I think the ONLY exception to this is Anduin.
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  9. #229
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    [QUOTE=grisset;19050943]What advances are you talking about? Segregating all the "inferior" races in Orgrimmar? Starting a war for no reason with enemies he can't defeat? Starving the citizens to use resources on war machines? Allying with warmongering former enemies?[COLOR="red"]
    Uhm, you missed, like, the entire Cataclysm story and a great deal of novels. All wars are fought for resources. Garrosh didn't want his people to sit and die in barren Durotar, Horde needed land and whatever that land could provide. Cataclysm made everything scarce, hence battle for lumber and food in Ashenvale, battles in Barrens with the advancing Alliance. Learn your lore, this was explained a thousand times at the start of Cataclysm.

    By "inferior" races you might mean those who openly hinder and weaken the Horde (trolls). I wonder what song would they sing if human fleet would land further north - to Echo Isles instead of Theramore and Northwatch Hold.

    Enemies he couldn't defeat? Are you talking of Alliance which does nothing both in game and novels but get beaten by Horde, causing Alliance audience to rightfully enrage? We, the players, know that Horde and Alliance are both undefeatable because it's a game about their eternal conflict. The characters of the game don't know that.

    Starving the citizens to build war machines? Show me the examples. Especially war machines made of food.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Oh you can like such a character I have no issue with that. Its just when people try to justify that kind of behavour as normal and one that should be an example to others is when it crosses the line.

    Hell, I like yogg Saron and the Lich king as villians, but you wouldn't get me saying shit like 'he's to misunderstood he just wants to take care of the undead', alright, I accept a bad guy for what he/she is, I don't try to sugar coat it.

    And thats exactly what Garrosh fans are doing now, they are attempting to sugarcoat his bad ways because they think its fun to act like that.
    Again. This is a game.

  11. #231
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Again. This is a game.
    If your going to keep saying that on threads where people are discussing lore, then its nobody elses problem but your own.
    #boycottchina

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Again. This is a game.
    this is no mere game my kind sir... THIS! IS! WARCRAFT!!!!!!! ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    If your going to keep saying that on threads where people are discussing lore, then its nobody elses problem but your own.
    No, you're belittling people who enjoy a game and its lore because they disagree with you.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Very good point. Most characters developed in WoW have very choppy story telling with little to no coherency to how they came to where they are and where they're from. I think the ONLY exception to this is Anduin.
    Its also a limitation of the medium. Books and movies are very passive things. We read/observe the events that have been pre-scripted, we get to have first person views and thoughts. But since we are immersed in the story itself, we don't get that kind of insight, it has to be delivered in a different way. If anything, I think Garrosh suffers from missing bridges in his characterization, particularly from post-Wrath to Cataclysm and his time after Thrall told him that Grom died a hero.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    he's been terribly mishandled, turning out to be nothing but a rash, insolent blowhard who has learned nothing from the past - neither his own, nor the Orcs in general."
    isnt that pretty normal for Hellscream standards?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 12:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    this is no mere game my kind sir... THIS! IS! WARCRAFT!!!!!!! ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    yeah...WoW is more like a hobby to me than just a game

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 12:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Very good point. Most characters developed in WoW have very choppy story telling with little to no coherency to how they came to where they are and where they're from. I think the ONLY exception to this is Anduin.
    well Warcraft has an enormous wealth of characters, Blizz cant be doing something with everyone every patch - unless we are content with waiting years instead of months
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  16. #236
    I won't need anyone else to turn you into Kek Cupcakes Keksplace as I am known as The Ultimate Life Form or the Super Shadow. I will come inside Orgrimmar and Chaos Blast it to the ground and then the other 49 raiders from the Alliance and the Horde can finish the remains. Now on to a more serious matter. If you really like Garrosh so much just please ask Blizzard to make a mechanic for you fanboys to defend him from all us raiders instead of whining every day in the forums cause all this thing starts to becoming tiring.

    At the start of the raid you choose side and then you play your side of the raid and everyone is happy in the end.
    Last edited by Darth-Piekus; 2012-11-12 at 09:03 AM.

  17. #237
    These days I consider Garrosh to be Horde equivalent of a vaccine. Horde gets the shot and it first gets worse, but once it is out of the system things are great and much better.

  18. #238
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astalnar View Post
    These days I consider Garrosh to be Horde equivalent of a vaccine. Horde gets the shot and it first gets worse, but once it is out of the system things are great and much better.
    so Garrosh is the virus part of the vaccine then.
    #boycottchina

  19. #239
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    To me it's a matter of general leadership skills versus wartime leadership skills. As a wartime leader, Garrosh is great. He may be rash, arrogant, volatile and directly stupid at times, but he knows what needs to be done and is not afraid to do it or use other people to do so. The end justifies teh means in his Horde... which is a dark path to head down.
    As a general leader of this grand alliance of races and cultures, Garrosh fails. His diplomatic skills are terrible and he simply isn't intelligent enough to work out the problems of the Horde - and seing as he's very bad at taking advice (EX: Conversation with Saurfang the Elder in Garrosh Hold in Borean Tundra), i doubt he will be able to "lead" the Horde singlehandedly. Also consider that he is diminishing (destroying?) the alliances Thrall worked very hard to get and keep with the trolls and tauren.

    Bottom line: IMO Garrosh will do for now, but we need someone smarter and more diplomatic eventually - Vol'jin is my main candidate (I am biast on that however... love my trolls ;D)

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Well the quote actually raises the question of whether a noble final act can redeem all the evil in one's life, and the answer given is 'no, it doesn't.' Not sure I 100% agree with this perspective, but it adds an interesting topic to characters like Grom and Darth Vader. Does that final act of sacrifice really redeem them?

    The book is The Black Prism, first in Brent Week's Lightbringer trilogy. But I've only just started reading it, and I'm sore other books have raised that question long before this one.
    Well what does redemption really mean then. I see it as, someone has done something he regrets and wants to make up for. Grom enslaved himself and his people, saw that he made a mistake and then went on to free himself and his people, making up for his own mistake. I would certainly say he redeemed himself.

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