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  1. #1441
    Quote Originally Posted by trudat View Post
    Thank you for the suggestions.
    I wasnt using much DS simply because i was under the impression that its only for 3+ targets.
    I will get my goroth log up. Thanks again for replying.
    Actually, if you can hit at least 2 targets with DS, it's better than using TV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by evilpresence View Post
    Looking for some tips on Heroic Fallen Avatar (I pug). I have both rings, cloak and belt. Typically use Chain and Liadrin's. Pot at the start and use Specter next to Avatar (and on CD unless running out). Lust is normally kicked off at start or a few seconds later. I wait until about 3 seconds to run out using my pony and then pony back to the boss for minimal down time. I run my unbound chaos in a circle or strafe the boss to make sure I'm constantly DPS'ing. Just to get up to the 50th percentile I'd need to do about 100K more DPS... I have currently 37 wipes and 2 kills - below are 15 logs (oldest to newest).

    Four attempts
    reports/3aZwy6LhQCcrxk4B#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1

    Seven attempts
    reports/n64pW7zHK1GFXfqJ#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4

    Four attempts with 4piece and 2piece (try something new last night!)
    reports/4GJqpL1tkc8y3zvn/#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1
    Hi, I haven't yet be able to try this fight on heroic mode, but...
    You should take a look on top ret paladins for this fight and look at what they do differently.
    As I told to Trudat, using DS does more DPS than TV from 2 targets or more.

    Top retri constantly use DS on Avatar and Maiden. For most of them, DS is their 1st source of damage.
    Try it, I'm pretty sure you'll do way more than 100k DPS more.

  2. #1442
    Quote Originally Posted by trudat View Post
    Thank you for the suggestions.
    I wasnt using much DS simply because i was under the impression that its only for 3+ targets.
    I will get my goroth log up. Thanks again for replying.
    Actually, it's better to use DS than TV if you can hit 2 targets or more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by evilpresence View Post
    Looking for some tips on Heroic Fallen Avatar (I pug). I have both rings, cloak and belt. Typically use Chain and Liadrin's. Pot at the start and use Specter next to Avatar (and on CD unless running out). Lust is normally kicked off at start or a few seconds later. I wait until about 3 seconds to run out using my pony and then pony back to the boss for minimal down time. I run my unbound chaos in a circle or strafe the boss to make sure I'm constantly DPS'ing. Just to get up to the 50th percentile I'd need to do about 100K more DPS... I have currently 37 wipes and 2 kills - below are 15 logs (oldest to newest).

    Four attempts
    reports/3aZwy6LhQCcrxk4B#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1

    Seven attempts
    reports/n64pW7zHK1GFXfqJ#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4

    Four attempts with 4piece and 2piece (try something new last night!)
    reports/4GJqpL1tkc8y3zvn/#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1
    Hi, I haven't yet be able to try this fight on heroic mode, but...
    You should take a look on top ret paladins for this fight and look at what they do differently.
    As I told to Trudat, using DS does more DPS than TV from 2 targets or more.

    Top retri constantly use DS on Avatar and Maiden. For most of them, DS is their 1st source of damage.
    Try it, I'm pretty sure you'll do way more than 100k DPS more.

  3. #1443
    Quote Originally Posted by trudat View Post
    Thank you for the suggestions.
    I wasnt using much DS simply because i was under the impression that its only for 3+ targets.
    I will get my goroth log up. Thanks again for replying.
    Actually, it's better to use DS than TV if you can hit 2 targets or more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by evilpresence View Post
    Looking for some tips on Heroic Fallen Avatar (I pug). I have both rings, cloak and belt. Typically use Chain and Liadrin's. Pot at the start and use Specter next to Avatar (and on CD unless running out). Lust is normally kicked off at start or a few seconds later. I wait until about 3 seconds to run out using my pony and then pony back to the boss for minimal down time. I run my unbound chaos in a circle or strafe the boss to make sure I'm constantly DPS'ing. Just to get up to the 50th percentile I'd need to do about 100K more DPS... I have currently 37 wipes and 2 kills - below are 15 logs (oldest to newest).

    Four attempts
    reports/3aZwy6LhQCcrxk4B#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1

    Seven attempts
    reports/n64pW7zHK1GFXfqJ#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4

    Four attempts with 4piece and 2piece (try something new last night!)
    reports/4GJqpL1tkc8y3zvn/#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1
    Hi, I haven't yet be able to try this fight on heroic mode, but...
    You should take a look on top ret paladins for this fight and look at what they do differently.
    As I told to Trudat, using DS does more DPS than TV from 2 targets.

    Top retri constantly use DS on Avatar and Maiden. For most of them, DS is their 1st source of damage.
    Try it, I'm pretty sure you'll do way more than 100k DPS more.

  4. #1444
    Quote Originally Posted by trudat View Post
    Thank you for the suggestions.
    I wasnt using much DS simply because i was under the impression that its only for 3+ targets.
    I will get my goroth log up. Thanks again for replying.

    Actually, it's better to use DS than TV if you can hit 2 targets or more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by evilpresence View Post
    Looking for some tips on Heroic Fallen Avatar (I pug). I have both rings, cloak and belt. Typically use Chain and Liadrin's. Pot at the start and use Specter next to Avatar (and on CD unless running out). Lust is normally kicked off at start or a few seconds later. I wait until about 3 seconds to run out using my pony and then pony back to the boss for minimal down time. I run my unbound chaos in a circle or strafe the boss to make sure I'm constantly DPS'ing. Just to get up to the 50th percentile I'd need to do about 100K more DPS... I have currently 37 wipes and 2 kills - below are 15 logs (oldest to newest).

    Four attempts
    reports/3aZwy6LhQCcrxk4B#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1

    Seven attempts
    reports/n64pW7zHK1GFXfqJ#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4

    Four attempts with 4piece and 2piece (try something new last night!)
    reports/4GJqpL1tkc8y3zvn/#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1

    Hi, I haven't yet be able to try this fight on heroic mode, but...
    You should take a look on top ret paladins for this fight and look at what they do differently.
    As I told to Trudat, using DS does more DPS than TV from 2 targets.

    Top retri constantly use DS on Avatar and Maiden. For most of them, DS is their 1st source of damage.
    Try it, I'm pretty sure you'll do way more than 100k DPS more.

  5. #1445
    Quote Originally Posted by evilpresence View Post
    Looking for some tips on Heroic Fallen Avatar (I pug). I have both rings, cloak and belt. Typically use Chain and Liadrin's. Pot at the start and use Specter next to Avatar (and on CD unless running out). Lust is normally kicked off at start or a few seconds later. I wait until about 3 seconds to run out using my pony and then pony back to the boss for minimal down time. I run my unbound chaos in a circle or strafe the boss to make sure I'm constantly DPS'ing. Just to get up to the 50th percentile I'd need to do about 100K more DPS... I have currently 37 wipes and 2 kills - below are 15 logs (oldest to newest).

    Four attempts
    reports/3aZwy6LhQCcrxk4B#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1

    Seven attempts
    reports/n64pW7zHK1GFXfqJ#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4

    Four attempts with 4piece and 2piece (try something new last night!)
    reports/4GJqpL1tkc8y3zvn/#view=analytical&boss=2038&difficulty=4&wipes=1
    Judging from your kill (the seven attempts link):

    1. You didnt use 2nd old war pot
    2. You didnt get advantage of shield of vengeance, you could pop in when soaking the melee pool for additional damage
    3. Use 375 haste food, not 300
    4. You didnt get additional crusade near the end which means you didnt use it on cd
    5. You used vial on pull without any crusade stacks, use it when you're at 15
    6. Use arcane torrent if you are a blood elf
    7. And last but not the least you wasted WAY too much holy power, like 1/6 of what you generated. You should really improve that part and it's probably what caused the low parse in the end.

    Also, you don't need to cleave maiden and avatar all the time, you can do that during cleansing protocol but certainly not the entire fight as its not a real benefit for your group... orange parses are absolutely achievable without cleaving

    Good luck

  6. #1446
    Quote Originally Posted by Shollen View Post
    Actually, it's better to use DS than TV if you can hit 2 targets or more.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Hi, I haven't yet be able to try this fight on heroic mode, but...
    You should take a look on top ret paladins for this fight and look at what they do differently.
    As I told to Trudat, using DS does more DPS than TV from 2 targets.

    Top retri constantly use DS on Avatar and Maiden. For most of them, DS is their 1st source of damage.
    Try it, I'm pretty sure you'll do way more than 100k DPS more.
    Using DS on Fallen Avatar is just cheese. It's not effective DPS unless you're hitting Maiden's shield and there's no danger of not breaking it in time.

  7. #1447
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Using DS on Fallen Avatar is just cheese. It's not effective DPS unless you're hitting Maiden's shield and there's no danger of not breaking it in time.
    I feel better with you saying this because we specifically tank her where we don't/can't cleave and I don't DS just in case we don't get the shield down -- not worth risking the wipe

  8. #1448
    Quote Originally Posted by Crendash View Post
    Judging from your kill (the seven attempts link):

    1. You didnt use 2nd old war pot - I always pot twice unless someone pulls early
    2. You didnt get advantage of shield of vengeance, you could pop in when soaking the melee pool for additional damage - Will start doing this
    3. Use 375 haste food, not 300 - Easy fix
    4. You didnt get additional crusade near the end which means you didnt use it on cd -
    5. You used vial on pull without any crusade stacks, use it when you're at 15 - Thank you for the advice
    6. Use arcane torrent if you are a blood elf - Thank you for the advice, rarely have a holy power issue but this will help
    7. And last but not the least you wasted WAY too much holy power, like 1/6 of what you generated. You should really improve that part and it's probably what caused the low parse in the end. - See below

    Also, you don't need to cleave maiden and avatar all the time, you can do that during cleansing protocol but certainly not the entire fight as its not a real benefit for your group... orange parses are absolutely achievable without cleaving

    Good luck
    Thank you very much for the feedback! I've made some notes above in red and tried them out yesterday which until it was "wipe time" my DPS improved a bit. Going through logs, how do I see when I waste holy power?


    Two reports from last night's wipes.
    reports/ZCxXNwaYPfvV3dt2#view=analytical&type=summary
    reports/WhaAKqnMdfzQHR9c#type=damage-done&fight=1

  9. #1449
    Quote Originally Posted by evilpresence View Post
    Thank you very much for the feedback! I've made some notes above in red and tried them out yesterday which until it was "wipe time" my DPS improved a bit. Going through logs, how do I see when I waste holy power?


    Two reports from last night's wipes.
    reports/ZCxXNwaYPfvV3dt2#view=analytical&type=summary
    reports/WhaAKqnMdfzQHR9c#type=damage-done&fight=1
    Resources -> Holy Power

  10. #1450
    Quote Originally Posted by Crendash View Post
    Resources -> Holy Power

    Ooooofff. Thank you for the insight.

  11. #1451
    Hi,
    I would like ask about some advices about hc boss fights. Here's my logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...=dps&compare=1 I will apprecieate every advice but I am most interested in Sisters, Desolate, Goroth and Mistress. So far as I know for AOE boses (goroth,mistress and deso) I am supposed to use ring and belt legends. On rest I should use cloack/belt.

  12. #1452
    Quote Originally Posted by Roszadok View Post
    Hi,
    I would like ask about some advices about hc boss fights. Here's my logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...=dps&compare=1 I will apprecieate every advice but I am most interested in Sisters, Desolate, Goroth and Mistress. So far as I know for AOE boses (goroth,mistress and deso) I am supposed to use ring and belt legends. On rest I should use cloack/belt.
    I didn't look at your logs (yet) but Liandrin's and Belt are simming higher for me than Cloak/Belt even on ST and AOE.

  13. #1453
    Could I get some help on why I was so much worse than this other ret paladin in the raid? He was only a few ilvls higher than me, but he out dps'd me all night by such a large margin.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...17&source=2,18

    Help me get better!

  14. #1454
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Could I get some help on why I was so much worse than this other ret paladin in the raid? He was only a few ilvls higher than me, but he out dps'd me all night by such a large margin.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...17&source=2,18

    Help me get better!
    You don't have Defiled Augment Rune on, you have half the uptime he has on Concordance (which you cannot control at all), he used Prolonged Power instead of Old War, he did 37 TVs you did 23, he has the Umbral Glaives trinket which is more reliable than Claw for actually hitting targets, and he has a bit higher Crusade uptime because he popped it earlier more often.
    Last edited by Reith; 2017-08-24 at 12:27 PM.

  15. #1455
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    You don't have Defiled Augment Rune on, you have half the uptime he has on Concordance (which you cannot control at all), he used Prolonged Power instead of Old War, he did 37 TVs you did 23, he has the Umbral Glaives trinket which is more reliable than Claw for actually hitting targets, and he has a bit higher Crusade uptime because he popped it earlier more often.
    So you would recommend prolonged power instead of old war? He did more TVs than me because he has the ring Leggo I imagine (I don't). And the crusade uptime is something I can work on.

  16. #1456
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So you would recommend prolonged power instead of old war? He did more TVs than me because he has the ring Leggo I imagine (I don't). And the crusade uptime is something I can work on.
    Prolonged Power is better for AOE, and I only pointed out the TVs because he did pretty much the exact number of Divine Storms you did lol. Soul is good for that fight.

  17. #1457
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So you would recommend prolonged power instead of old war? He did more TVs than me because he has the ring Leggo I imagine (I don't). And the crusade uptime is something I can work on.
    You dont waste much holy power which is good. It really boils down to:

    1. You have 5 less ilvl
    2. He has 4p t20, you don't
    3. He has better legendaries while you have an utility legendary, hard to fix if u dont have an alternative

    and..

    4. I checked your armory. You have 41% mastery and thats our lowest valued stat... at least until tuesday

  18. #1458
    Quote Originally Posted by Crendash View Post
    You dont waste much holy power which is good. It really boils down to:

    1. You have 5 less ilvl
    2. He has 4p t20, you don't
    3. He has better legendaries while you have an utility legendary, hard to fix if u dont have an alternative

    and..

    4. I checked your armory. You have 41% mastery and thats our lowest valued stat... at least until tuesday
    Do you really think those 3 things would create such a wide gap between us?

    The matery stat is kind of a byproduct of playing the ilvl game (I have been in the puglife until this raid actually, i JUST joined this guild lol). Do you know where I can read up on how Tuesday is gonna affect our stat weights?

  19. #1459
    Hi all, since 7.2.5 i have all 3 AoW relics (915 holy and 925 fire) and now, in i found a 930 holy relic of BoJ damage. After the aow trait nerf, my new relic is now better then the 915 holy? Thanks

  20. #1460
    Quote Originally Posted by Gariusello View Post
    Hi all, since 7.2.5 i have all 3 AoW relics (915 holy and 925 fire) and now, in i found a 930 holy relic of BoJ damage. After the aow trait nerf, my new relic is now better then the 915 holy? Thanks
    930 BoJ relic is clearly better than a 915 AW. I wouldn't know exactly if it were 5 ilvls apart but 15 is easily better. You may want to save relics for the Crucible's release though.

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