[Holy] Fix my Heals!

[nightfalls]

I'll have logs up in a bit (I'm looking over them myself for improvements), but for Grand Empress Shek'zeer, is there a good way to heal Phase 1? I don't seem to be getting a lot from Holy Radiance since people are spread out, and I don't feel like I'm generating enough Holy Power to Eternal Flame the raid (though I guess Divine Purpose would help). Even though we have 2 tanks and 2+ (usually) melee, with me standing in melee, Holy Prism doesn't seem to be healing for a lot either.

I'm currently using Devotion Aura for Cry of Terror (would be for the corrupted field on HM) and Bopping people in Dissonance Fields, but are there any tricks for throughput?

[glorithan]

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...4sher/advanced

Alternate Specs/Glyphs: I switch Glyph of Divine Plea in and out for different fights, and I switch between Holy Avenger and DP

Worldoflogs Link:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...m/healingDone/

Questions, concerns, expectations:I feel that my healing on the wind lord fight should be much higher for my gear level. How is it that alot of paladins are able to maintain 30% of healing being eternal flame, even without pvp gear bonus?

Description of Playstyle: I use AW + DF together most often, and use HA when specced into it at different times then AW+DF. Divine Plea starting at 80% mana and from there As often as possible. I use focus potions at the same time if possible.

I feel that in general there are some things I can try to work on to increase my HPS. I ranked on fights alot with the pvp 4 set but since dropping that for pve gear I have ranked on maybe 1 fight.

[Simulacrum]

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...4sher/advanced

Alternate Specs/Glyphs: I switch Glyph of Divine Plea in and out for different fights, and I switch between Holy Avenger and DP

Worldoflogs Link:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...m/healingDone/

Questions, concerns, expectations:I feel that my healing on the wind lord fight should be much higher for my gear level. How is it that alot of paladins are able to maintain 30% of healing being eternal flame, even without pvp gear bonus?

Description of Playstyle: I use AW + DF together most often, and use HA when specced into it at different times then AW+DF. Divine Plea starting at 80% mana and from there As often as possible. I use focus potions at the same time if possible.

I feel that in general there are some things I can try to work on to increase my HPS. I ranked on fights alot with the pvp 4 set but since dropping that for pve gear I have ranked on maybe 1 fight.

Uhm, well right off the bat you're gimping yourself massively by not using any of your L90 talents... using one of those alone should increased your HPS by 5-10% at no effort what so ever (light's hammer was 7.7% of my healing done last week).

Another big one is, you're apparently in melee attacking the mobs with crusader strike? You should move on to generating HP with radiance rather than crusader strike, which is time spent doing no healing at all.

Though if you ask me, the biggest thing holding you back (ignoring the massive amount of avoidable damage your raid is taking from sources like whirling blade and corrosive resin, though all that should be doing for your position on the meters is help you out; the damage your tanks are taking is also extremely high - one of your two tanks takes more than our one tank does when solo tanking the fight; are you guys dispelling the damage buff?) is that you guys are going with 3 healers rather than just 2 (you should also 1 tank instead of 2 tank, if you ask me, especially considering that you guys are apparently wiping to the enrage).

Not a lot I can see wrong with what you're doing; except for the obviously massive error of not using your L90 talent, there aren't that many things I think you're doing wrong. I would recommend you HR instead of CS for HP, that you try to avoid using LoD as much as possible, that you cast less holy light, that you try to use divine shield more, etc; minor things. You guys are obviously not failing because of the lack of healing, but because of several pretty major flaws in the execution of the fight itself.

What I do on wind lord is just spam radiance on melee and EF the ranged: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...?s=8334&e=8766
Hopefully, today I get to 1 heal the fight for meter whoring!

[monikasun88]

I'll have logs up in a bit (I'm looking over them myself for improvements), but for Grand Empress Shek'zeer, is there a good way to heal Phase 1? I don't seem to be getting a lot from Holy Radiance since people are spread out, and I don't feel like I'm generating enough Holy Power to Eternal Flame the raid (though I guess Divine Purpose would help). Even though we have 2 tanks and 2+ (usually) melee, with me standing in melee, Holy Prism doesn't seem to be healing for a lot either.

I'm currently using Devotion Aura for Cry of Terror (would be for the corrupted field on HM) and Bopping people in Dissonance Fields, but are there any tricks for throughput?

Getting DP, focusing EF on the ranged, timing your Prism or HR/Infusion of light spells right after fields explode to heal the melee would probably be the best ways to improve your meter scores.

[glorithan]

Uhm, well right off the bat you're gimping yourself massively by not using any of your L90 talents... using one of those alone should increased your HPS by 5-10% at no effort what so ever (light's hammer was 7.7% of my healing done last week).

Another big one is, you're apparently in melee attacking the mobs with crusader strike? You should move on to generating HP with radiance rather than crusader strike, which is time spent doing no healing at all.

Though if you ask me, the biggest thing holding you back (ignoring the massive amount of avoidable damage your raid is taking from sources like whirling blade and corrosive resin, though all that should be doing for your position on the meters is help you out; the damage your tanks are taking is also extremely high - one of your two tanks takes more than our one tank does when solo tanking the fight; are you guys dispelling the damage buff?) is that you guys are going with 3 healers rather than just 2 (you should also 1 tank instead of 2 tank, if you ask me, especially considering that you guys are apparently wiping to the enrage).

Not a lot I can see wrong with what you're doing; except for the obviously massive error of not using your L90 talent, there aren't that many things I think you're doing wrong. I would recommend you HR instead of CS for HP, that you try to avoid using LoD as much as possible, that you cast less holy light, that you try to use divine shield more, etc; minor things. You guys are obviously not failing because of the lack of healing, but because of several pretty major flaws in the execution of the fight itself.

What I do on wind lord is just spam radiance on melee and EF the ranged: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...?s=8334&e=8766
Hopefully, today I get to 1 heal the fight for meter whoring!

Thank you so much for the advise Cattlehunter, I will take it to my raid leader. As for the 90 talent, I am very good at forgetting that its keybound to Mouse 4. and will work on it.

[Deleted]

We are a raid team of friends the core of whom have been together since Cata with some new raiders joining at the start of MoP.

We are struggling on Elegon but it's been pretty much the same on each progression boss. We only seem to progress once we have overgeared for the fight.

We also have no experienced raid leader who knows all classes so we rely on individuals to know their own classes and maybe there are some who need that extra help or kick.

I am going to link all our main raiders WoLs for Elegon in their specific class forums for tips and advice.

Thanks in advance for any positive feedback.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/j23yo...m/healingDone/

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/p3p1a0kjana3cr87/

[TwentyTwelve]

Hey there, looking quickly at the log on the longest attempt, 8 min try 4, you all died in the last phase basically. just from looking at that it looks like you are unsure how it works, shammy died to tank adds... and majority stood infront of elegon and took the breath hits.

to help as much as possible i'll post a strat on positioning

- Pally Mts, Warrior Ot's.
do a pull timer via /dbm pull 10 and on 3 secs everyone use a pre pot including tanks (USE DPS POT! the mogu power for 4k str)
Pally runs in with sacred shield up before the pull, he should use Avenging wrath, any trinks /bloodfury depending on his race etc, and use Holy avenger (talent)
he should then do a rotation such as; hammer of the rightousness (to provide the AP debuff) -> shield of righteous-> judge -> shield of righteous -> crusader strike -> shield -> judge -> repeat till Holy avenger wears off. that should push him to around 100-150k burst dps. (depending on gear, i'm a 480ilvl prot)
Ranged should be on the tip of the zone, and everyone resets stacks of overcharged at 8-10 except tanks, tanks switch on add spawn, so Wariror takes first add, 4 dps nuke, next add spawns, pally takes add and warrior takes boss, pally dosent reset stacks till the add is below 25% and he moves it outside (provides bigger vengance), add dies fast, P2 should start after that add.

On first anniliation have the pally tank use a cooldown, always! use divine protection (40% magic ddefensive) and use something such as ardent defender or Guardian of the A kings, Warrior should be full hp and need no CD due to not tanking.
2nd anniliation pally should Aura mastery/devotion aura, warrior use a CD such as shield wall or what not.- P2

P2-
Assign one dps per orb, as a pally i can easily solo a orb and i rarely need help, but there is the one off when i do, due to really bad RNG.
Kill 4 orbs, and on 5th nuke boss.

P3-
all depends on your raid group, i found it easier to just nuke pillars ASAP, but some say and it is logical to kill them all at the same time due to getting least amount of adds, however they're quite easy to deal with. Just use aoe stuns / slows, no dps should attack them as it could pull agro of tank, have both tanks aoe, and focus on pillars after getting agro, after all the pillars die stack infront of the control panel thing which spawned elegon, nuke the adds then with aoe and cooldowns (rallying cry if needed) and such. Spirit link totem is another good cooldown here. WATCH FOR CIRCLES the spawning bit which dmg's...
As you run infront of control panel the Pally MT's boss again, taunting elegon while rest of raid deal with adds, and you repeat. except there will be 3 adds instead of 2 now.

Last phase-
Do pillars how you normally would, stack infront of control panel to aoe/heal till floor spawns, and then all run in together and fast, Pally MT's boss AWAY from the raid, and the raid stacks on the side of elegon, instantly Bloodlust/Hero, rallying cry and nuke the adds, after adds die you finish boss off, using spirit link, aura mastery etc, rotate cooldowns.
no one resets the stacks here but the tanks, and the tankss witch... after the adds die, then after that pally gets back from reseting stacks he taunts, other tank resets, then taunts etc till dead.

A bit closer look at your pally tank is playing wrong, at the end from what i can tell, he is word of glorying the shammy to keep him alive, and therefore taking more damage and making the fight last longer, he should RARELY word of glory, using the holy power on shield of righteousness is a much bigger part of play, it increases his survivability and the raids by making the fight shorter, it can hit for tons at last phase.

A little closer look and it looks like the pally tank is also using the wrong seal.. Seal of truth got nerfed to the ground and is no longer more powerful than seal of insight, tell him to switch to seal of insight on every fight, it provides bigger heals, more mana, and if he glyphs battle healer (WHICH HE SHOULD) he can help a lot on fights such as aoe adds / even elegon, 30% of his dmg will heal the raid!, on stone guards if he MT's hes looking at 20k+ hps, and on elegon atleast 10-20k which is a lot better than what he did even while wasting his time word of glorying.

Healing
Can only try and help the pally here really...
Pally is not using HR enough tbh (holy raidance) if the raid is stacking on last phase this is a big cooldown, depending on how the pally heals. If the pally is not using the eternal flame method, get him to spec/have holy avenger, as he should, use it then and do this;
- Holy radiance -> light of dawn->Hr- > LoD -> Hr -> LoD use mana cooldowns as this kills mana, but provides excellent hps.

A better strat idealy, would be to spec into eternal flame instead of sacred shield as a healer and do the following;
- Holy avanger -> Holy raidance -> eternal flame raid member 1 (tank1) -> holy raidiance -> eternal flame raid member 2 (tank 2) -> Hr -> EF member 3 (healer 1) etc so he has hots on all, it is amazing for hps.
Would strongly suggest he specs out of holy prism and specs into lights hammer. its 1 min cooldown but a stronger HoT heal i.m.o placeit down and do the EF trick.

Will edit as i look to provide as much help as i can... ill post this for now though

[monikasun88]

@ kastodian

In terms of how you could improve as a healer:
- You're socketing haste. With your current ilvl, I would advise forgetting about hitting the soft cap for sacred shield and prioritizing mastery. More mastery gives you bigger shields which will never get overhealed. Getting to 5300+ haste in current gear means you're taking quite a few percentage points off mastery. With a shaman healer (which I'm afraid I don't know too much about) who doesn't use absorption shields it can provide a lot of utility to your raid on mitigating damage.
- My personal opinion is that EF is a lot better for 10 mans than sacred shield. EF also utilizes mastery more applying the illuminated healing with every tick. The other reason is you can reasonably keep up your tank with a few EFs thrown out on raid members. I don't think shamans have too many hots so this could benefit your raid on providing consistent healing. If you intend on keeping sacred shield, I would still recommend prioritizing mastery/spirit gem over your current haste/spirit gems. Make sure to keep it up at all times as well.
- Enchant your bracers.
- Remove Heartsong, 200 spirit is very minimal considering what your total spirit is, windsong is a better enchant for you. Jade song is best but costly.
- Remove your glyph of flash of light, this is a very situational glyph and not too useful considering it is basically an oh crap spell. I'd recommend using glyph of protector of the innocent or divinity.
- Holy radiance has always been a tricky spell since the range is so small, make sure when you're using it you're hitting more than 3 targets else it's not very mana/time efficient.
- Use holy shock more on cooldown.

In terms of the boss fight it's a little bit hard to give suggestions if we don't know what you're currently doing. Our guild gets 1 total annihilation mob the first phase and two the second phase. One dps on one orb, 3 on each side. 1 healer on each side healing 3 dps plus 1 tank on each side should be helping out the weaker dps, cleave damage when they first spawn should help a lot on killing them as they're still close together. You should aim for 4 orbs killed per phase but a minimum of 3. You can salvation yourself or your shaman healer to keep threat off of them when the sparks come out. Your tanks should stand next to your healers as the cosmic sparks spawn so they can pull them off, have your dps hold off on hitting them so they don't draw agro. Have everyone run to the center after the pillars go down around the device (where you first start off) so one tank can grab them all while the other gets ready to run in from the side. The tank on the adds probably needs to blow a cooldown or have some AOE stuns as the sparks hit hard. Burn the sparks down with AOE then rinse repeat. On the last phase, clump up behind the boss and pop healing cooldowns. Make sure everyone stands outside of the breath range. This phase should be quick if you've killed 8 orbs total, in fact it needs to be. Make sure people are dropping their stacks on the orb phase as well. A part of your deaths are on the orbs part, EF on this part is great and you basically don't need to heal your tank if you have your beacon on him.

Cheers and good luck~

[Hypasonic]

Healing
Can only try and help the pally here really...
Pally is not using HR enough tbh (holy raidance) if the raid is stacking on last phase this is a big cooldown, depending on how the pally heals. If the pally is not using the eternal flame method, get him to spec/have holy avenger, as he should, use it then and do this;
- Holy radiance -> light of dawn->Hr- > LoD -> Hr -> LoD use mana cooldowns as this kills mana, but provides excellent hps.

This is fine, however to improve on this even more you should also include Holy Shock's, so that you take advantage of the AoE heal it offer's after casting Holy Radiance therefore the new AoE "rotation" during Holy Avenger would ideally look something like this:

Pop HA>Holy Radiance>Light of Dawn>Holy Shock>Light of Dawn>Holy Radiance>Light of Dawn>Holy Shock>LOD etc

[Swiifty]

Okay in LFR and normal I must admit I am struggling terribly to heal everybody to get good HPS since that is what peeps like dont care about who is alive or not just want good hps. I almost was kicked today because my hps was low against another paladin, prist, druid and shaman. I was at 21k hps in HoF 3rd boss. Unless I blow every CD im 5th or 6th everytime. Now in MSV im top 3 but in the tier progressions im last. I didnt log my latest fight but heres arecent one along with my character.
Here is my Armory!
Here's my World of Logs!(swiifty)

I dont want to give up healing I LOVE it I just dont like stuggling

[monikasun88]

@ Swiifty

Glad to hear you're enjoying healing Just going to offer you a few pointers on your talents first. I see that for most fights you don't use eternal flame (~30% uptime overall). If you don't plan to use this talent I would suggest going sacred shield instead. That way you can focus on keeping that one spell on the tank. I personally really enjoy using eternal flame but I typically get divine purpose rather than holy avenger like your current armory. Holy avenger is an extremely powerful but mana costly cooldown and in most situations, you have plenty of other healing cooldowns to deal with heavy damage. My overall message is make sure you're properly utilizing whatever talents you do decide to get. Knowing the fight mechanics, get used to switching around talents better suited to them. On the topic of your glyphs, I would suggest using Glyph of Divinity, Protector of the Innocent, or Avenging Wrath. Glyph of Flash of Light and Insight are more suited towards PvP where you will be using Flash of Light more often.

For the actual fights, make sure you are trying your best to use Holy Shock on cooldown. Your count in a 6 minute battle should be more around 50 rather than 30. You're frequently using holy radiance which is a very poor spell if your raid is not grouped up. You're hitting a lot of people with your holy radiance on each cast but only healing each around 4500. You're also using Light of Dawn a lot but only healing each person for around 11K. 50% of your healing is going to overheal. Holy paladins are only mediocre AoE healers when they show up on meters and thats when the raid is taking AoE damage. Even then, the druid and discipline priest are going to get there much faster than you. Druids are worse reactive healers, able to heal someone up after a large amount of damage quickly. Heres where eternal flame, or word of glory and holy shock are going to shine a lot more. If you try to use these skills more often and leave the small AOE heals to the other classes I believe your HPS will go up. You said you were using your cooldowns but I didn't see any in buffs cast. You should be using Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor, Guardian of the Ancient Kings. You specced into Holy Avenger but you aren't using that either. Forgive me if I'm wrong and I just don't see them. I don't see anything wrong with your enchanting or gemming.

You gave us a log of where you're doing decently (in top 3) as your said. I think we could better offer suggestions if you linked a log where you're lagging behind the other healers. I would just suggest trying to spec into Eternal Flame/Divine Purpose or respec to Sacred Shield/Holy Avenger and change your glyphs around. A lot of the time low HPS is due to unfamiliarity with the fights as confusion or uncertainty will dull your reaction to things. Once you get more used to the fights, you'll know when is a good time to pop your cooldowns and other mechanics better and I'm sure your HPS will improve.

[Lucyrotten]

Without looking at these logs, Holy Avenger and Eternal Flame synergize way better than SS and HA. You can blow HA/GoaK and pop a lot of fat EFs on people during damage phases. I like that combination a lot for Energy Charges on Elegon. The problem with Divine Purpose and a pally that's not shocking well is that you're generating fewer HP which means you're using fewer finishers and therefore DP procs are going to be fewer across the board. HA is just a superior talent. It's not more mana intensive. You're generating a a lot of free HP to spend while it's active and push a lot of healing during that time. If you're having mana management issues, HA is not to blame for it.

[dennisdkramer]

Without looking at these logs, Holy Avenger and Eternal Flame synergize way better than SS and HA. You can blow HA/GoaK and pop a lot of fat EFs on people during damage phases. I like that combination a lot for Energy Charges on Elegon. The problem with Divine Purpose and a pally that's not shocking well is that you're generating fewer HP which means you're using fewer finishers and therefore DP procs are going to be fewer across the board. HA is just a superior talent. It's not more mana intensive. You're generating a a lot of free HP to spend while it's active and push a lot of healing during that time. If you're having mana management issues, HA is not to blame for it.

All of our talents do a pretty solid job in various scenarios - HA actually synergizes just fine with SS for burst aoe via LoD.

HA is considered mana intensive because in order to fully utilize your throughput you're going to have to cast several DL or HR. That doesn't mean that its a bad decision to do so, just requires you to play correctly so you've not wasted that mana.

---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 04:53 AM ----------

Also, LFR is about sniping heals and absorbs, I often do more healing than all the other healers combined just because I'm fast, even though that healing was completely unnecessary. Post a normal log if you want an in-depth analysis. Garalon would be ideal, given that it tests both your longevity and throughput.

[LAww_WWW]

Im still using the 4p pvp bonus and im starting to lose ground on our other holy pala that is using 2 t14, what am i doing wrong?( trying to keep 3 HP EF on everyone)
The fight i linked is with our monk that died after a few mins in the fight so he had crap mana after which should have meant i should have been alot higher on HPS, but i didnt, still 20k-ish behind top healers on that fight

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13384&e=14102

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...er/Laww/simple

[dennisdkramer]

Im still using the 4p pvp bonus and im starting to lose ground on our other holy pala that is using 2 t14, what am i doing wrong?( trying to keep 3 HP EF on everyone)
The fight i linked is with our monk that died after a few mins in the fight so he had crap mana after which should have meant i should have been alot higher on HPS, but i didnt, still 20k-ish behind top healers on that fight

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13384&e=14102

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...er/Laww/simple

You beat the fight 2 healing with a healer who died and you think you're doing something wrong because your HPS isnt as high as the top of WoL? Not saying you couldn't do more, but there is only so much healing that has to be done on any fight, and you met that requirement and beat it. Its quite possible that the healers at the top of the charts are healing groups that are taking extra damage.

What's most interesting to me about that log is how little healing your dps are doing. Your mage, for example, is getting zero healing from Rune of Power (meaning he isn't glyphed). I'm not familiar with arcane but for fire and frost that is a completely mandatory raiding glyph, I've never heard of a mage not using it.

As for your healing - your holy shock use is good, your beacon could be doing a lot more healing if you swapped it around instead of leaving it on yourself (your beacon is 53% overhealing). I havent done H Will but I believe there is a fair amount of stacking in which case you should be using holy radiance.

[LAww_WWW]

Radiance is at the point i wanna delete it from my action bars, so much mana cost for 1HP and moderate healing in a very low area. Really, all other AOE healing spells from other clases have 1/2 cost and 30yard range. But thanks for the tips ill try to improve my beacon swaping

[Lucyrotten]

His beacon was on the warrior tank and constituted 30% of his healing received. Honestly on a two tank fight like that it's the way to do it. I wouldn't be beacon swapping much if at all since both tanks are going to have similar damage patterns and being able to heal both of them at the same time is pretty ok in my book.

HS usage is fine, cd usage is fine. I prefer HA over DP but since you're using pvp 4pc I'm sure you're more used that play style. Nothing really stands out to me as needing any particular improvement although I know I've never had a perfect parse in my life.

[ileana]

Radiance is at the point i wanna delete it from my action bars, so much mana cost for 1HP and moderate healing in a very low area. Really, all other AOE healing spells from other clases have 1/2 cost and 30yard range. But thanks for the tips ill try to improve my beacon swaping

Yeah radiance sometimes can feel useless, especially in 10man. same deal with LoD.

[Pasture]

Radiance is at the point i wanna delete it from my action bars, so much mana cost for 1HP and moderate healing in a very low area. Really, all other AOE healing spells from other clases have 1/2 cost and 30yard range. But thanks for the tips ill try to improve my beacon swaping

HR is just a situational spell. Obviously useless when the raid is spread out, but when the raid is stacked, HR, HS, LoD become very powerful.

[dennisdkramer]

Radiance is at the point i wanna delete it from my action bars, so much mana cost for 1HP and moderate healing in a very low area. Really, all other AOE healing spells from other clases have 1/2 cost and 30yard range. But thanks for the tips ill try to improve my beacon swaping

Oh yeah its definitely worse than other classes aoe heals, but its better HPM than DL, and WAY better HPM than DL if you're not healing the beacon target.

---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 05:05 AM ----------

His beacon was on the warrior tank and constituted 30% of his healing received. Honestly on a two tank fight like that it's the way to do it. I wouldn't be beacon swapping much if at all since both tanks are going to have similar damage patterns and being able to heal both of them at the same time is pretty ok in my book.

HS usage is fine, cd usage is fine. I prefer HA over DP but since you're using pvp 4pc I'm sure you're more used that play style. Nothing really stands out to me as needing any particular improvement although I know I've never had a perfect parse in my life.

Hm yeah you're right, dunno why i thought he had beacon on himself. Still though, 53.8% is overhealing. I've managed to get my beacon down to ~30% overhealing and it definitely can help you do some more healing. Its not something I expect the average player to be able to do well, but given that he's as far as he is into heroics it may be something he can benefit from.