[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[MerinPally]

Its hard to quantify dps and healing, but generally up to 50% haste, 1% haste is 1% dps (everything apart from ES/LH is affected) so thats a rough guide to how much he's losing out, healing wise its a bit different because often EF and any other hots you put on yourself overheal so i would say that he isn't losing much in that respect, though he would see an improvement in surivability in going for more haste.

This was the sort of thing I was looking for. I wrote the prot guide so I know about all the different strats and which takes more damage and why and all that, just never knew how big the margin was for this tier (obviously it varies). Thanks a lot guys

[Nillo]

On top of my head: Norushen does mostly physical damage on tanks, the magical component is raid wide, so that could be an option, Nazgrim, Malkorok, Klaxxi. I would need to analyze Garrosh to see if there's more magical damage or physical damage going around on the tank. For the raid it's a no brainer ofc, but we're talking tanks here.

Norushen: about 50% of incoming damage is from that raid wide aoe so hell no.
Malkorok: If you're the one soaking it - yes, otherwise unglyphed is much better to clear up the orbs and miasma deals enough damage to make the glyph worthless.

[Deleted]

On top of my head: Norushen does mostly physical damage on tanks, the magical component is raid wide, so that could be an option, Nazgrim, Malkorok, Klaxxi. I would need to analyze Garrosh to see if there's more magical damage or physical damage going around on the tank. For the raid it's a no brainer ofc, but we're talking tanks here.

You don't wanna glyph DP on Garrosh since the 40% reduction to spell dmg is amazing for soaking annihalates.

[PewPewlePew]

I'm trying to eek out a little more dps on Garrosh while using my tanking cloak. We are down to wipes at 2-3 percent. I know there's a limit to what I can do other then surviving for a few more seconds and hoping that dps doesn't die...

However, since aoe damage is only really important in P2 do you guys think there is any value to speccing out of my aoe dmg to boost my single target for the fight. I'm thinking focused shield and focused wrath in particular.

[Deleted]

I've always taken focused shield, divine protection and alabaster shield as glyphs on Garrosh, both normal and Heroic and as long as AoE isn't an issue in p1 then there's no reason not to in my opinion. Phase 3 is the hardest part of the fight and those 3 glyphs are best for Phase 3.

[Nillo]

I've always taken focused shield, divine protection and alabaster shield as glyphs on Garrosh, both normal and Heroic and as long as AoE isn't an issue in p1 then there's no reason not to in my opinion. Phase 3 is the hardest part of the fight and those 3 glyphs are best for Phase 3.

Uhm....
Unglyphed Avenger's Shield is still good for clearing mind controls
Divine Protection is definitely not a dps glyph and not really all that useful outside of p1

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However, since aoe damage is only really important in P2 do you guys think there is any value to speccing out of my aoe dmg to boost my single target for the fight. I'm thinking focused shield and focused wrath in particular.

I don't see any reason not to use Focused Wrath - it's not like you lose anything by using that glyph.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Uhm....
Unglyphed Avenger's Shield is still good for clearing mind controls

AS only interrupts the primary target, has done so for about two years now.

[Teddybird]

AS only interrupts the primary target, has done so for about two years now.

True but if a melee gets mind control, which on 10m we normally only have 1 but sometimes 2 it works really well. In fact be the end of p2 a shield into a melee normaly does a fair amount of damage on themind controled target and i lose nothing on garrosh all with a simple tab target. Given how meny times this has been useful or sped things up i wouldnt glyph it at all, although i cant confirm i would swear that soemtime i can near on 1 shot melee late in p2 with a shield hit.

Also normally for that fight the group is stacked, so if it the shield hits one target it will hit a second and possibility of a 3rd so damage side would still be better.

[Seahenar]

AS only interrupts the primary target, has done so for about two years now.

That doesn't really matter - the reason it's good for clearing MCs is because of the burst damage it does. It's one of the best 3 target burst cleaves there is, which makes it perfect for MCs.

[Deleted]

On top of my head: Norushen does mostly physical damage on tanks, the magical component is raid wide, so that could be an option, Nazgrim, Malkorok, Klaxxi. I would need to analyze Garrosh to see if there's more magical damage or physical damage going around on the tank. For the raid it's a no brainer ofc, but we're talking tanks here.

Just because a fight doesnt have magical damage components does not make DP glyph mandatory (such as Norushen), as the physical damage is trivial anyway. It would just be a wasted glyph.

DP glyph is viable for Nazgrim if undergeared, Malkorok, Spoils (but really not needed) and Paragons.

As for Garrosh not glyphing DP is mandatory. Not to mention all the good situational glyphs on that encounter, the magic damage components is the only dangerous parts of the fight. Whirling Corruption together with high corruption stacks, high corruption stacks in general and annihlates etc. The damage in P4 is also trivial.

Personally I rolled with I believe WoG, Holy Wrath and Blinding Light.

If you glyph FS, then either you are playing wrong or your raid tactic and positioning is wrong. It is so awesome for cleaving down Mind Controls instantly, cleaving in P1, Jade Temple aswell as the Empowered Whirling adds. Nothing beats coming down from the transition with 700k vengeance and brining out both mindcontrols with 1 AS in 1 second with your raid leader wondering wtf happened.

[Ironi]

As for Garrosh not glyphing DP is mandatory. Not to mention all the good situational glyphs on that encounter, the magic damage components is the only dangerous parts of the fight. Whirling Corruption together with high corruption stacks, high corruption stacks in general and annihlates etc. The damage in P4 is also trivial.

...why? for me 60-65%(with DP glyph) of my damage taken is from melee swings, rest is just trivial magic damage, some dots etc which i could overheal with EF hot if i wanted to

[arel00]

Norushen: about 50% of incoming damage is from that raid wide aoe so hell no.
Malkorok: If you're the one soaking it - yes, otherwise unglyphed is much better to clear up the orbs and miasma deals enough damage to make the glyph worthless.

On Norushen it really is the same if that 50% is true, you're just moving 20% back and forth from physical to magical. Glyphing it would simply mean you take the same overall damage, but are slightly more balanced on your resistances.

[Nillo]

On Norushen it really is the same if that 50% is true, you're just moving 20% back and forth from physical to magical. Glyphing it would simply mean you take the same overall damage, but are slightly more balanced on your resistances.

No it means you're wasting a glyph slot.

[Deleted]

As for Garrosh not glyphing DP is mandatory. Not to mention all the good situational glyphs on that encounter, the magic damage components is the only dangerous parts of the fight. Whirling Corruption together with high corruption stacks, high corruption stacks in general and annihlates etc. The damage in P4 is also trivial.

Personally I rolled with I believe WoG, Holy Wrath and Blinding Light.

If you glyph FS, then either you are playing wrong or your raid tactic and positioning is wrong. It is so awesome for cleaving down Mind Controls instantly, cleaving in P1, Jade Temple aswell as the Empowered Whirling adds. Nothing beats coming down from the transition with 700k vengeance and brining out both mindcontrols with 1 AS in 1 second with your raid leader wondering wtf happened.

We use 2 Warriors with the CDR on Garrosh. That means that they both have Bladestorm up for each Mindcontrol, as well as being able to disrupting shout. Therefore having AS hit another target has never and will never be difficult for my raid setup. We also have plenty of AoE in phase one and never struggled with the dps check there. So using AS for Mindcontrols is completely unnecessary. I also have it glyphed for the Whirlings, because when they're empowered ASing a small add can bring it down to 60-70% hp making it a lot harder for our monk tank to pick up and kite and makes it dangerously low to the point where it could get empowered whilst being kited.

Also, the harshest dps check of the fight is Phase 3, where all of the damage is Single target, so taking focused shield makes my boss damage higher at no real cost.(taking into account that bladestorm breaks out the mind controls) It is also the best for Phase 4, simply because you only ever have 1 target to dps there as well.

I tried using Unglyphed Divine Protection, but I've found it much better to use it Glyphed and pop it 5 seconds before the whirling, whilst im taking the melee damage and at 3 stacks of the debuff (we go up to 4) and have it rolling up until mid-way through the whirling corruption and have the heal from the 2 set rolling afterwards. I also like to have a small Cooldown in Phase 4 just to help out on damage taken, I know its not necessary but theres no reason not to have it in my opinion.

[Deleted]

I don't see any reason not to use Focused Wrath - it's not like you lose anything by using that glyph.

I agree with that statement on every fight except (10man) garrosh HC. Usuallly focused wrath should be a permanent glyph as it allows you to fully utilize final wrath on AE fight and focus your damage where needed.

However on Garrosh, you remove Focused Wrath to reliably solo one of the packs in temple of the jade serpent, together with glyphed Holy Wrath, I even glyphed blinding light for a while until we changed our tactic around a bit and I did not need to anymore (our MW came and dropped a RoP on my mobs instead). Before that I used the interrupt rotation Glyphed HW - Glyphed BL - Glyphed HW - AS/Rebuke/HoJ on any mob left alive (shouldnt be any).

The standard glyph setup for Garrosh HC in 10 man would be

Word of Glory
Holy Wrath
Situational on strat: BL/FW
Unglyphed Focused Wrath.

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...why? for me 60-65%(with DP glyph) of my damage taken is from melee swings, rest is just trivial magic damage, some dots etc which i could overheal with EF hot if i wanted to

*facepalm* Lets look at total damage taken to gauge tanking survivability.

It is literally impossible to die on Garrosh HC (if played correctly) on anything except having way to high corruption stacks during whirling or soaking annihilate badly. Both scenarios unglyphed DP is the obvious choice. I would understand your standpoint if the glyph was 40% magic reduction and rather wanted another glyph. But you are talking about completely wasting a glyph slot for some completely stupid reason.

[Ironi]

*facepalm* Lets look at total damage taken to gauge tanking survivability.

It is literally impossible to die on Garrosh HC (if played correctly) on anything except having way to high corruption stacks during whirling or soaking annihilate badly. Both scenarios unglyphed DP is the obvious choice. I would understand your standpoint if the glyph was 40% magic reduction and rather wanted another glyph. But you are talking about completely wasting a glyph slot for some completely stupid reason.

i don't even remember the last time i had more than 4 stacks, even thats really rare, so i don't need to save DP for it, and i can overheal annihilate with glyphed DP and EF hot, so i don't really get your point.

[Deleted]

We use 2 Warriors with the CDR on Garrosh. That means that they both have Bladestorm up for each Mindcontrol, as well as being able to disrupting shout. Therefore having AS hit another target has never and will never be difficult for my raid setup. We also have plenty of AoE in phase one and never struggled with the dps check there. So using AS for Mindcontrols is completely unnecessary. I also have it glyphed for the Whirlings, because when they're empowered ASing a small add can bring it down to 60-70% hp making it a lot harder for our monk tank to pick up and kite and makes it dangerously low to the point where it could get empowered whilst being kited.

Mind controls can never be broken too fast though. Fine if you have a good setup for it, but can always get better. Especially if the warriors get MCed.
The point for whirling adds seems kinda mute as you should not be using righteous fury. I often actually spent hours and hours of Garrosh progression without righteous fury since I realised I did not need it at any part of the fight.

Also, the harshest dps check of the fight is Phase 3, where all of the damage is Single target, so taking focused shield makes my boss damage higher at no real cost.(taking into account that bladestorm breaks out the mind controls) It is also the best for Phase 4, simply because you only ever have 1 target to dps there as well.

I guess this depends about what tactic you use. P3 was by far the most leniant of all the phases for us dps wise (not counting P4 as a real phase). We had far more wipes in both p1 and p2 due to not reaching the dps check than P3. But my guess would be that guilds with current gear level is trying to "zerg" the phase ignoring the tactics. So I guess it could be tighter then. We were getting 2-3 whirlings in P3 depending on how we did on the dps. We even got 4 on our earlier tries.
Still, I dont see why you would glyph FS there anyway. I am going to assume you have HW glyphed. That means the remaining two glyph slots will probably be WoG/FW/FS. WoG+FW yields by far the highest single target gain in P3 due to how much you can abuse FW in that phase, with the added benefit of also having the highest cleave damage for mind controls. I literally see no reason at all to glyph FS unless you run WoG/HW/FS as FS is the lowest dps gain of those 3 glyphs for Garrosh. It could be argued that WoG is a lower gain, especially without 4p, but I dont know. Still feels like the cleave from AS is far to high to pass up.

I dont know how fast your group is to take out mindcontrols. But if people are mindcontrolled for more than 1 global, not glyphing FS is a must, since the added raid dps is far bigger than what you get from trying to meter whore.

I tried using Unglyphed Divine Protection, but I've found it much better to use it Glyphed and pop it 5 seconds before the whirling, whilst im taking the melee damage and at 3 stacks of the debuff (we go up to 4) and have it rolling up until mid-way through the whirling corruption and have the heal from the 2 set rolling afterwards. I also like to have a small Cooldown in Phase 4 just to help out on damage taken, I know its not necessary but theres no reason not to have it in my opinion.

So wow, you even wasted a glyph on DP and still found room for FS? Do you stand in every single annihilate during both transitions so you get 600-700k vengeance with glyphing DP? If you dont then you have your answer right there. You are probably wasting a ton of your damage potential (which you seem to be keen about) by gimping yourself with a sub-optimal glyph. I would buy your reasoning as I mentioned earlier if it was the other way around, if the glyphed version was 40% magic and unglypged was 20/20. But as it is now you are completely wasting a glyph slot for no gain at all.

There is no reason to have P4 in your opinion. There is no tank damage in P4.

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i don't even remember the last time i had more than 4 stacks, even thats really rare, so i don't need to save DP for it, and i can overheal annihilate with glyphed DP and EF hot, so i don't really get your point.

We took 7-8 stacks sometimes to maximize vengeance.
But I think in the end we realised that getting 5-6 was optimal for dps increase for both tanks. Think we tried some weird taunting shit aswell, kinda Siegecrafter style. I dont remember what we finally settled for the kill.

You are also proving that you are completely clueless about the fight if you say "I can overheal the annihilate". What experienced tanks is talking about is actually standing inside the cone of annihilate soaking every FULL hit to get vengeance. Something that require heavy CD rotation. It is not about overhealing the annihilate, it is about not getting oneshotted.

[Ironi]

We took 7-8 stacks sometimes to maximize vengeance.
But I think in the end we realised that getting 5-6 was optimal for dps increase for both tanks. Think we tried some weird taunting shit aswell, kinda Siegecrafter style. I dont remember what we finally settled for the kill.

You are also proving that you are completely clueless about the fight if you say "I can overheal the annihilate". What experienced tanks is talking about is actually standing inside the cone of annihilate soaking every FULL hit to get vengeance. Something that require heavy CD rotation. It is not about overhealing the annihilate, it is about not getting oneshotted.

first of all, i have been farming garrosh hc for a long time as a prot paladin so im quite sure i know every mechanic of the fight, what you are talking about is min/maxing your personal DPS which really isn't needed for the kill and you are just making the fight harder for everyone else by trying to be #1 on WoL becouse you are using all of your personal and external cd's for soaking something that you can easily avoid.

[Deleted]

first of all, i have been farming garrosh hc for a long time as a prot paladin so im quite sure i know every mechanic of the fight, what you are talking about is min/maxing your personal DPS which really isn't needed for the kill and you are just making the fight harder for everyone else by trying to be #1 on WoL becouse you are using all of your personal and external cd's for soaking something that you can easily avoid.

Not everyone overgeared the encounter when they killed it the first time. I stopped raiding after our first kill, so my only experience of Garrosh is in relevant gear when all DPS mattered. If you would have uttured that statement in my raid you would have been out on the street in a heartbeat.

Also saying min-maxing personal dps is not a good thing for an encouter that is nothing but a gearcheck/dps check seems kinda moronic. Min-maxing personal (or rather raid) dps is the largest part of Garrosh HC.

[Ironi]

Also saying min-maxing personal dps is not a good thing for an encouter that is nothing but a gearcheck/dps check seems kinda moronic. Min-maxing personal (or rather raid) dps is the largest part of Garrosh HC.

why are you assuming that i overgeared the encounter? According to wowprogress our first kill was Oct 11, 2013, so we didn't even have enough time to overgear it.