[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[trystero]

I just can't resist telling a global warming denialist exactly what everyone is thinking but too restrained to say. Fortunately, I have no problems with restraint when faced with people who butcher science. Those who don't understand is one thing and they can be divided into 3 groups - those who want to learn and those who aren't interested. The former are great, I'll explain a few things if they want me to, and the latter well whatever. However, those who admit they don't know/understand and then "explain" the evidence away well that's fine, maybe they misunderstand. Then when presented with evidence dismiss it on the grounds that it doesn't agree with their ignorance... we have a problem.

Totally deserved ban however. Keeping it paladin-y, I saw a guy in Shrine today, he recognised my name from a previous expansion when I was a bouse. Gave him some paladin help. Good times were had.

I stopped arguing with idiots long ago. Not in WoW, like, I do that all the time, but in politics/environment/medicine/etc. You're either intelligent enough to admit evidence and reason, or you aren't. And if you aren't, fuck off, because conversations go like this and are pointless:

Moron: Here's a ridiculous claim.
You: Yo that's ridiculous! Here's some evidence to show you it's wrong.
Moron: Here's another ridiculous claim.
You: What happened to your first claim?
Moron: Hey..........I heard you liked ridiculous claims so [insert meme]
You: WTF BAN ME NOW

[MerinPally]

Well the problem is that because people know they are able to say what they want, they do. They forget that doesn't extend to us accepting what they say, or even listening although people do listen just so they can counter the point better. And then again, because they know that we don't have to accept their bullshit they then turn around and say the same, even though one is demonstrably bullshit and the other is the best explanation we have to the problem.

Anyway, I got asked the other day how my gear is. Might turn into some raiding from an old friend to help them out? Who knows. Whether I'd take it is another question yet again. Think I'm at a gear point where my haste is only going to increase slowly though as I know it's been high for my ilvl for quite a while.

[hashtags]

Hi everyone, this thread has helped me a lot in the past. I come here once again for advice. These are the logs for my guild http://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/7118 I feel like I am not doing enough dmg my other tanks are monk and bear and I feel like I am like far far behind in dmg. We have this tier on farm so surviving is kind of not really an issue. Is it my rotation, is it my spec. Anything I can do to output more dmg.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zwYtDN7Q3B6dJG1q

This is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...octix/advanced

Secondly any suggestion on which trinket will be better between Skeer's Bloodsoaked Talisman or Fusion-Fire Core. I got heroic version of both.

I am sorry in advance if I am asking dumb questions.

[Deja Thoris]

Well for starters you aren't using holy wrath very much. Look up the rotation linked in the prot guide. Under that rotation you should be using it a lot more. On Thok you had focussed shield which I guess is fair enough but I use glyph of word of glory. The difference shows in the bats. Last kill I had 15mill or so damage on the bats, you had 3 mill. My holy wrath also did about 12mill more than yours because I used it better (but I still need to improve)

On fights where you 2 tank, like Garrosh your damage dealt is really just a result of vengeance. Just speak with your co-tank so you keep vengeance rolling on both of you, yours dropped to pitiful levels on the kill in the previous week. Otherwise solo tank it :P It's not too scary as a prot pala. Generally speaking though monks and bears do more damage pound for pound.

[trystero]

Yeah you don't seem to hit buttons fast enough. Sha is the closest thing to a true tank and spank we have this tier, and on it your SotR was 50%, very low with 50% haste. Now I admit, I don't know how reliable CPM is on WCL, or even if it truly represents what it claims to, but you manage about 30 fewer CPM than I do on that fight.

- - - Updated - - -

Also big tank damage comes from vengeance. Then really big, wtf tank damage comes from some kind of gaming. Or being a Guardian in Scorpion.

Make sure you always have some vengeance, if possible and the fight allows. Garrosh you really shouldn't ever drop vengeance at any point, like, there's just no reason for it since anyone can solo tank it and pushing out bigger numbers is always helpful. It's not like you're in danger of dying with higher stacks.

EDIT: It doesn't look like you're soaking Annihilates. I'm inferring that based on 1) the Annihilate damage you took, which is low and 2) the damage you were dealing during and after Intermission phase, which is also low, e.g.

00:02:27.082 Garrosh Hellscream Annihilate Noctix 298515
00:02:31.742 Noctix Shield of the Righteous Garrosh Hellscream *337555*

Paladins can soak every one, DP/Guardian/DP. Big damage boost for sure

[hashtags]

Thanks so much for the feedback guys. I did go through a logs and unfortunately I didn't realize how low my Holy Wrath usage was. Hopefully I can rectify it quickly.

[SolaronTich]

Hey folks, after maining a Ret for 6 years, I'm swapping over to tank to finish out the tier. So, I had to tear my Ret set apart somewhat (and lose my glorious 50% haste in the process), but I've managed to maximize my tank set (I think). I'm curious if you all could take a look at my armory and point out any areas I could improve.

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...laron/advanced

Thanks!

PS: Yeah I know I have a lot of avoidance gear. Unfortunately, a lot of my Ret gear has crit on it, plus we've had some kinda meh luck with getting non-crit gear to drop. Also haven't put the meta in yet.

[MerinPally]

Looks alright to me, as you said it's just a gear thing.

Pursuit of Justice is not too grand, at these haste levels I prefer LAotL due to a very high uptime and you're rarely outside of Judgement range, it's usually up when you need it. Speed of Light can be good on certain encounters but it's another situational button you might not want to bother yourself with. Should probably go for Holy Prism over Lights Hammer as it fits into the rotation pretty well, and then Divine Purpose beats Holy Avenger outside of maybe Malkorok blood phase. Swap glyph of Divine Protection for Focused Shield unless you desperately need the cooldown or the bounce.

The vast majority of things seem to be in order so as long as you're a decent player with regards to awareness and you hit your buttons enough, you should be absolutely fine. If in practice you encounter any specific problems then you can just show us a log and we can help but in theory you should be ok with what you got.

[SolaronTich]

Awesome, I should be putting this to the test tonight for farm. I've personally preferred PoJ for everything I don't need Speed of Light for, just because I don't like needing the speed boost and having Judgement on CD. Though, as you said, it's less of an issue with current haste levels. I may consider giving Holy Prism a try, though I like the ground AoE of LH for picking up and maintaining threat on stuff. As for T75, yeah I usually run with DP, though before I logged off I gave the SW and HA rotations some practice, just in case I ever end up using them (HA for stuff like Malk as you said, not sure that SW is ever terribly useful though). I personally like having the extra cooldown in the DP glyph, mainly on the pull and for little bursts of damage where it can take a load off the healers. Plus, I do like the bounce. Swap for Dark Shamans though for the magic reduction.

Thanks for the help!

[MerinPally]

No problem. For farm bosses it really shouldn't matter as long as you hit your buttons enough. The other thing is that Lights Hammer doesn't generate threat unless you already had threat on them, I think, whereas Holy Prism always grants it. You can also cast it on yourself for some great healing, and it's a very powerful AOE heal. As I say you'll be fine for farming, for progress then yes there is a more optimal way to do it but the differences aren't vast. You'll get used to not having the bounce to be honest, I've not been able to raid properly all expansion so can't comment on some of the SoO bosses but there are many situations where you don't need the bounce at all, and with Holy Prism you can just adapt playstyle a bit and get the same effect. It's not an all or nothing situation necessarily.

Best of luck, remember to just link logs if you need anything

[Ansekh]

glyphs:
glyphing DP, I do it only on malkorok and thok HC. I can understand Klaxxi Hc. As each other boss doesn't have that much threating physicla attack's you can eat with other CD's.

May I ask why you are using Rooks?
While it may have it uses on fights like malkorok and garrosh. There is almost no other use for it, while thok's is much more allround usable due to the huge amount's of haste. beside this, the mastery you get from thok's can be a blessing if you need more mastery.

If you have no trouble surviving, than crit is getting better while mastery and avoidance is become worse. meaning that you can choose to get haste/crit tiems. like the ring from spoils for example.

[SolaronTich]

Hmm...not sure how I logged out with Rook's. I have normal Thok's (not a single heroic drop or coin) in the second slot. As for glyphing DP/crit gear, it's personal preference I suppose, I don't personally agree with sacrificing even avoidance for crit. Plus, we aren't really hurting for DPS.

[Ansekh]

well it all depends on how much you value mastery and crit. If we were talking about me or you, I would completely agree with you. In case of SolaronTich where he is quite new to tanking and saying:

PS: Yeah I know I have a lot of avoidance gear. Unfortunately, a lot of my Ret gear has crit on it, plus we've had some kinda meh luck with getting non-crit gear to drop. Also haven't put the meta in yet.

We can safety assume that he is preferring mastery and avoidance more than crit. Than BiS ring's could become siegecrafter and shaman's mastery ring.
Sure we can have discussions about using crit gear instead of mastery or the RNG-horror that is called avoidance, that the extra DPS is more useful than more unneeded survival. But in the of the day we all make sure we survive before focussing on our own dps. I don't know how good he can tank, he is here to improve that. So suggesting that if he has no problems surviving giving haste/crit gear a place, doesn't seem wrong to me.

that said, you can never have enough dps. more dps means faster kills, thus less chance on mistakes, and that means faster progress and less time on farm.

[Deleted]

that said, you can never have enough dps. more dps means faster kills, thus less chance on mistakes, and that means faster progress and less time on farm.

There is no problem dps can't solve

[celinamuna]

well it all depends on how much you value mastery and crit

One of them has haste, another one doesn't.
QED

[Promdates]

The only real defense is an active defense.

[Ansekh]

If you have to wrong idea. that you should only focus on "tanking stats": haste, mastery, avoidance, stamina and strength.
Than it becomes less of a clear cut between those 2. Especially if you state that you don't believe tanks should go for crit. The difference between those 2 ring becomes quite small, and if you think that 2 mastery is better than 1 haste. The ring from Shaman's is BiS than.
Sites like AMR, icy-veins and EJ all promote this 1 dimensional idea that tanks shouldn't care about their DPS. As an integral part of tanking is maximizing raid DPS, which included your own DPS.

Beside this, I doubt that it's good to let inexperienced tanks focus directly on maximizing their DPS at the cost of survival. For some Survival is non-issue, leaving them free to focus on other things. But this doesn't mean that everyone should do it.

[Ansekh]

I agree with you haste cap is very important, but haste cap can be reached without any crit items. So it is only BiS if you focus on DPS. Which I think he has to decide himself if he is going to do that or not.

[Promdates]

Sites like AMR, icy-veins and EJ all promote this 1 dimensional idea that tanks shouldn't care about their DPS. As an integral part of tanking is maximizing raid DPS, which included your own DPS.

It's not really 1 dimensional. Your job as a tank PRIMARILY is to mitigate as much damage as possible while still surviving and doing your role effectively. Once you achieve that, then you can try to do more damage to help the raid dps (this isn't honestly anything new, it's been something tanks have been doing for a while. Especially on content they overgear).

It just so happens that most Mists bosses don't force you to reach a point where you feel like you're constantly in danger. Be it between self healing, stupid passive aoe smart heals, bosses just not hitting very hard, or the plethora of cooldowns available. Which lets us try to do more damage once we reach the tipping point of being able to survive without gearing for more mitigation. It doesn't help that tanks have the broken, dumb mechanic of vengeance which just inflates the damage that we're doing.

It's a more integral part of tanking now because of the way the whole expansion has been. Hopefully this is going to change come Warlords. Only time will tell.

[Deleted]

Hi, so my guild has just started to progress through heroic and I can't help but feel that my DPS is slightly low in some of the fights. Can anyone see anything wrong or anything that I could be doing better across all of the heroic fights, the logs for the first four heroic bosses are below along with my armory.

warcraftlogs.com/reports/3GpKyvWCjzkqgLAw#type=summary&source=8

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Waffless/advanced

Thanks for any advice.