[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Nairobi]

You could probably drop to ~7.5-10% expertise and pick up some haste until you get the ilvl to sit at cap. I'm sure you know that a lot of your gear choices (legs, belt, helm, etc.) are not ideal, and are just stuck with them, but dropping some of the expertise reforging will allow you to pick up some haste since you're so low natively.

Seems your reforge/gem priority is decent, so I won't preach about what to seek/do, just hope you get lucky!

I'd say on a fight like Tortos/Durumu/Primo-cheese, you should see ~60%+ uptime on ShotR. Your haste is pretty low, but given a decent rotation (and depending on your t75 talent choice), that'd be a good goal. On that note, I'd suggest running with HA (like you have currently), since your # of ShotR casts will be a bit low until you get more haste.

All in all, looks good. Best of luck in progression and in getting some more ideal gear!

[Drugshock]

Okie thanks

About my gear, yeah, just started ToT on him last week, so I'm still hoping for some luck (was rocking some LFR 476 pieces with haste, but the stam/str upgade was simply tooo good to pass up)

Now a maybe-not-so-small question about Prot tanking, concerning ShotR vs WoG. I kinda like to "help" my healers the best I can, so that's it --> lets see and example: on Durumu's Hard Stare, what would be more effective, to help the healers? 1- ShotR right before (with 5 HoPo) then another ShotR for the next 1-2 swings. 2- ShotR right before (again with 5 HoPo) then WoG myself and "eat the next full hits". I'm pretty sure the 1st option would be the best, but the "omg i should heal myself and help them drop the bleed" feeling is still here. BTW, sorry if it's already been covered somewhere.

[Nairobi]

Depends on your current HP, # of stacks, healer awareness, healer comp, phase of fight, etc. Basically... we can't tell you.

Things to consider:
1) the stacks reduce healing taken. If you have 6-8 stacks, a 5 BOG WOG is going to be pretty weak. At that point, its likely better to just ShotR. Or bubble/BoP, then heal.
2) Are you going into a hard stare topped off? If so, a ShotR will cut it down to almost nothing (with a sacred shield up) on 10N. Also, Disc bubble makes it basically a non-issue.
3) If you ARE low, don't panic. The DOT is weak as hell, ticks for ~8k per stack on heroic IIRC, so nothing to flip out about. Just recover as normal.
4) If you're low or have high stacks, just walk out of your beam for a moment to let healers catch up before resuming soaking (on heroic anyway, not sure if it's needed on N)

Basically, Durumu is both a good and a terrible example for your question, due to the MS effect in play. Times that I use WOG are basically 1) magic damage nukes, or 2) OHSHIT need to be topped NAO. But, for reference, I usually WOG ~1-3x per fight.

FWIW, a well timed Holy Prism/Lights Hammer is MORE than enough help to healers. Adding in your passive self-healing/absorbs really lets them "babysit" the raid, as you're likely pretty self sufficient. I think I'm usually ~75%+ of my total healing taken, which means our healers can spend time on the raid and/or Smiting/Fistweaving.

[Drugshock]

Thanks again sir.

[Promdates]

Times that I use WOG are basically 1) magic damage nukes, or 2) OHSHIT need to be topped NAO. But, for reference, I usually WOG ~1-3x per fight.

Mine are usually when I fat-finger another button, occasionally the magic nuke.

[Deleted]

Nairobi - you WOG a hell of a lot more then me

[Nairobi]

Nairobi - you WOG a hell of a lot more then me

I basically only use it when I have to be 100% self sufficient. Top of my head:
1) Once at the start of HC tortos to get my shield maxed. But never again.
2) HC Meg when I'm solo on green and rest of raid is on purple. (so, twice maybe?)
3) HC Durumu once or twice (after taking a 7/8/9th stack, then bubbling, ofc) if needed
4) HC Lei Shen when soloing a quadrant for topping off after Helm, bouncing bolts, or having an add.

So, 4 fights.

[Pickwickman]

Snip

Yeah, no. For survivability stamina is king. Until you prove that you're better than Sacredduty at theorycrafting I call bullshit.

Ofcourse Hit > Expertise > Sta > Haste > Mastery.

Seriously, 'stamina bandwagonning' is there for a reason. Although on 10man there is no real need to go for stamina. Ever.

[Nillo]

Yeah, no. For survivability stamina is king. Until you prove that you're better than Sacredduty at theorycrafting I call bullshit.

Ofcourse Hit > Expertise > Sta > Haste > Mastery.

Seriously, 'stamina bandwagonning' is there for a reason. Although on 10man there is no real need to go for stamina. Ever.

First you attack him and then admit that there's no reason to go for stamina on 10m? °_°

[Deleted]

Honestly, FF is always wrong. Except when he makes a good point.

[Deleted]

First you attack him and then admit that there's no reason to go for stamina on 10m? °_°

There is no reason to go for stamina in 10 mans. But that doesn't change the fact that stamina is the best survival stat???

[Lethora]

Yeah, no. For survivability stamina is king. Until you prove that you're better than Sacredduty at theorycrafting I call bullshit.

Ofcourse Hit > Expertise > Sta > Haste > Mastery.

Seriously, 'stamina bandwagonning' is there for a reason. Although on 10man there is no real need to go for stamina. Ever.

I'm running 25H and I had no real need to gem stamina or use stamina trinkets. I'm using 1 jc stam gem and that's all. Everything else is haste/exp.

[Nillo]

I'm running 25H and I had no real need to gem stamina or use stamina trinkets. I'm using 1 jc stam gem and that's all. Everything else is haste/exp.

Why are you even using a jc stam gem ? °_°

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 10:55 AM ----------

There is no reason to go for stamina in 10 mans. But that doesn't change the fact that stamina is the best survival stat???

It's the top priority stat ..... until you hit a certain level where it loses most of it's value being only a buffer.

[Deleted]

Kinda. With my actually-not-even-high item level of 531, I have more than enough stamina for this tier. It was a tiny bit different in the first few weeks, but by now I question the need for the few stam-enchants I still have. As a matter of a fact, I only keep them, because I do think some ppl would find it ridiculous, that I tank with DPS enchants... o_O
As for 25mans, the bosses hit ~20-25% harder, so a higher EH is always good thing there, but after a certain ilvl, it is kind of a waste imo.

Maybe Ra-Den will change my mind, but I have few weeks till that.

[Nairobi]

Yeah, no. For survivability stamina is king. Until you prove that you're better than Sacredduty at theorycrafting I call bullshit.

Ofcourse Hit > Expertise > Sta > Haste > Mastery.

Seriously, 'stamina bandwagonning' is there for a reason. Although on 10man there is no real need to go for stamina. Ever.

STAMINA IS #1 ALWAYS YOU FOOLS! Errr...unless you don't need it.

It's been discussed over and over, that Theck does wonderful work on the math front when looking at stochastic damage measurements, but that he cannot translate those findings to "real life" scenarios (yet, anyway...he's trying a new thing with SimC that may change that). Please don't blindly follow Theck, or any other TC'er/blog/whatever. And if you do, PLEASE don't give that advice as gospel.

First you attack him and then admit that there's no reason to go for stamina on 10m? °_°

Honestly, FF is always wrong. Except when he makes a good point.

I always miss the funny posts when we're raiding

There is no reason to go for stamina in 10 mans. But that doesn't change the fact that stamina is the best survival stat???

It's the top priority stat ..... until you hit a certain level where it loses most of it's value being only a buffer.

Putting these side by side because, even though it's been said over and over, the best way to describe stamina is STILL:
It's our best survival stat until you have "enough". "Enough" means something different to each player, depending on class, fight, comp, healers, skill, and gear. That's why there is not a "set amount" or "cap", and anyone who tells you that there is, is wrong. After you reach that stamina breakpoint, additional points are ALWAYS better used in other stats.

[LuisKA]

Hello! 25h Prot paladin here.

I have a question about Dark Animus Heroic. I have found almost mandatory to run a full stam set (800k+ unbuffed) set to not get in real danger/be insta gibbed by Massives by the second half of the fight. Whenever I tried in my standard build (the one that shows in my armory atm) I die a lot to smashes.

Our strat involves me and a warrior co-tank switching both adds, taking 3-4 smash debuffs. I run unglyph dp and holy avenger. Even with double CD up for debuffs 3 and 4 it feels I just cant avoid death by the end of the fight with my haste set.

Would be really helpful if more experienced tanks could give me some tips on how to handle this fight without the need of an outrageous stamina build.

Thanks in advance! Armory is Tracey , EU-C,thun (cannot post links)

[Lethora]

Why are you even using a jc stam gem ? °_°

Because haste gems are underbudget (they only give 1.5x of stat instead of 2x) and there's a decent bonus on blue socket on my shoulders.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 05:47 PM ----------

Hello! 25h Prot paladin here.

I have a question about Dark Animus Heroic. I have found almost mandatory to run a full stam set (800k+ unbuffed) set to not get in real danger/be insta gibbed by Massives by the second half of the fight. Whenever I tried in my standard build (the one that shows in my armory atm) I die a lot to smashes.

Our strat involves me and a warrior co-tank switching both adds, taking 3-4 smash debuffs. I run unglyph dp and holy avenger. Even with double CD up for debuffs 3 and 4 it feels I just cant avoid death by the end of the fight with my haste set.

Would be really helpful if more experienced tanks could give me some tips on how to handle this fight without the need of an outrageous stamina build.

Thanks in advance! Armory is Tracey , EU-C,thun (cannot post links)

We're not on heroic yet but what we do is to have our DK and druid tanks manage Massive Golems while I tank the boss. Works wonderfully, I'm never in danger of getting gibbed, and neither are them.

[Nairobi]

Hello! 25h Prot paladin here.

I have a question about Dark Animus Heroic. I have found almost mandatory to run a full stam set (800k+ unbuffed) set to not get in real danger/be insta gibbed by Massives by the second half of the fight. Whenever I tried in my standard build (the one that shows in my armory atm) I die a lot to smashes.

Our strat involves me and a warrior co-tank switching both adds, taking 3-4 smash debuffs. I run unglyph dp and holy avenger. Even with double CD up for debuffs 3 and 4 it feels I just cant avoid death by the end of the fight with my haste set.

Would be really helpful if more experienced tanks could give me some tips on how to handle this fight without the need of an outrageous stamina build.

Thanks in advance! Armory is Tracey , EU-C,thun (cannot post links)

Since I raid 10's I can't give any tips necessarily for 25 specific, but I suppose the damage must just be insanely higher. I run stacks up to 7+ in 10, for example, with ~750khp, so not stam-stacking. We 3-tank, and have myself and another protpal ping-pong the adds to clear, usually every 4ish stacks (but sometimes higher).

At any rate...make sure that you keep 1 small golem alive (and on the MT, ideally) for as long as possible. This golem will act as an "empowerment soaker" so that your massives are not getting retard-stronk too early. Once they get stack(s) of the buff, they WILL start to hurt, so keeping up the small golem is a great way to bait empowers away from the massives. It'll likely die around the time of your jolts, but it will give you time to save CDs. Also, dont be afraid to use bubble to clear the stacks if needed (can do it twice inthe fight with HA).

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 01:58 PM ----------

Because haste gems are underbudget (they only give 1.5x of stat instead of 2x) and there's a decent bonus on blue socket on my shoulders.

Aren't there new "hybrid" JC gems, or am I making that up? I dropped JC this expac due to the secondary stats getting screwed, but I seem to recall hybrids being added.

We're not on heroic yet but what we do is to have our DK and druid tanks manage Massive Golems while I tank the boss. Works wonderfully, I'm never in danger of getting gibbed, and neither are them.

To be fair, normal and heroic are entirely different ballgames.

[Lethora]

Aren't there new "hybrid" JC gems, or am I making that up? I dropped JC this expac due to the secondary stats getting screwed, but I seem to recall hybrids being added.

That's pvp only. There are hybrid pvp power/resilience + main stat gems. Pve ones are just one-color with 320 stats for agi/int/str, 480 stamina and 480 for secondaries (instead of 640).

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 06:04 PM ----------

To be fair, normal and heroic are entirely different ballgames.

Yeah, I know. But looking at videos and tactics, they don't seem to be that much more different from normal mode except for tighter dps requirements, higher damage of mobs and somewhat different order of add handling.

[Nairobi]

That's pvp only. There are hybrid pvp power/resilience + main stat gems. Pve ones are just one-color with 320 stats for agi/int/str, 480 stamina and 480 for secondaries (instead of 640).

Blah, lame. Especially so, after the changes to make power/resil utterly useless lol. Glad I dropped that prof on my pal.

Yeah, I know. But looking at videos and tactics, they don't seem to be that much more different from normal mode except for tighter dps requirements, higher damage of mobs and somewhat different order of add handling.

Well, when phrasing it like that, you basically described every encounter going from N -> HC (more dmg in, need more dmg out, new strat/technique) :P

Basically, the boss is active from the start, the small adds hit like trucks, the fonts will damn near 1-shot non-tanks (and still dent tanks pretty hard), rings need to be soaked by a non-tank or the tank dies, swaps/brez CAN put you through the rings (lol z-axis) and get you killed, the matter swap will just about 1-shot anyone if not handled well, and so on. I'm not saying that it's the hardest fight in there, it's certainly much easier now with all of the gear, but there is just a lot of personal responsibility and add/debuff/real estate management to go on for the fight. Adding in 9/24 other people (and the space that they take up) is the real challenge. I promise it's harder than it looks in videos haha.