[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Nairobi]

Basically, if he's getting hit by tornados, he's doing something wrong :P

Doubtful. The guy is amazing, didnt you see where he told Arothand that he was? The tornado was probably just bugged or something.

[Nobleshield]

Doubtful. The guy is amazing, didnt you see where he told Arothand that he was? The tornado was probably just bugged or something.

They do get bugged though.. I've counted at least 3 times where they've come into that back area of the room (and once one was red and pulsing fire? not sure what that was about but if that's part of the fight I never noticed it before). But yeah, he's awesome. He wows people with his DPS as a tank :P

[Deleted]

They do get bugged though.. I've counted at least 3 times where they've come into that back area of the room (and once one was red and pulsing fire? not sure what that was about but if that's part of the fight I never noticed it before). But yeah, he's awesome. He wows people with his DPS as a tank :P

That... is part of the fight mechanics actually. ^^

[Deleted]

That... is part of the fight mechanics actually. ^^

I had 3 tornados going /follow on me for like 20 seconds after a windstorm, was so pissed, had to run around like a headless chicken, they just would not stop chasing me. Really hate that mechanic to be honest. Unpredictable and provides no depth to the fight really.

[Nairobi]

That... is part of the fight mechanics actually. ^^

This.

It's not a bug, it's how the fight works

[trystero]

No excuse to ever get hit by a tornado. As a druid he's got Stampeding Roar and Dash to cover two of those phases..hell his passive boost from T1 could probably do it for him no problem.

I do admit to sleeping at the wheel in P1 Heroic though where the dog drops a tornado in melee range and I get hit :P

[Deleted]

I guess that's at least one area where I'm better than the bear, because he doesn't use macros so I think he actually right-clicks the HoP buff or something like that (I have the cancelaura macroed to my Crusader Strike lol).. I know on Dururmu whenever he gets bubbled someone gets turned to and bit (not killed, but attacked).

what's wrong with that?!

[Nobleshield]

what's wrong with that?!

Nothing is wrong with it, but there's no excuse for getting a DPS killed sometimes when you get stacks bubbled because you're slow reacting to it, and to dismiss the suggestion of using a /cancelaura macro with "I don't use macros" is pretty silly IMHO.

Oh interesting note after we finally killed Lei Shen last night, we were talking about things and I mentioned he could solo tank Iron Qon, and he goes "Nah that'd be too hard with the stacking debuff". Methinks I might ask to do it sometime and show him how it's done

[Nairobi]

Nothing is wrong with it, but there's no excuse for getting a DPS killed sometimes when you get stacks bubbled because you're slow reacting to it, and to dismiss the suggestion of using a /cancelaura macro with "I don't use macros" is pretty silly IMHO.

Wat?

Oh interesting note after we finally killed Lei Shen last night, we were talking about things and I mentioned he could solo tank Iron Qon, and he goes "Nah that'd be too hard with the stacking debuff". Methinks I might ask to do it sometime and show him how it's done

WAT?

I've tripped over things that are more competent and versed at this game...

[MerinPally]

On that macro note and letting a dps die or get hit... Rawhammer actually has a point. There's no problem with right clicking it instead of having a macro (if you're into making it hard for yourself and physical pain...), but he should at least be taunting at the same time the bubble comes up. I thought that was common knowledge? Unless you're going to do a tank swap straight after (which you won't because otherwise why would you be doing this) it doesn't harm anything. The taunt gives you the fixate so that even with immunity you have time to remove the buff.

That bear could be you're mother, idc, I'm going to say it anyway - he's fucking retarded and egotistical.

[Nairobi]

The big issue with right-clicking (and the one that specifically made me create various cancelaura macros) is the same issue that accompanies ANY clicking in the game.

And it's twofold.

1) It requires exponentially more time to move your mouse to the buff-bar area of your screen and click the area than it does to simply press a bind without mouse movement. This is further reduced if you have the cancelaura bound to a rotational ability (like some in here suggest).

And

2) It is far less accurate than keybinding. I make this distinction for ALL clicking, but it ESPECIALLY holds true for buff removal. You first have to locate the HoP/Bubble buff in the sea of other buffs you have during a raid. Then, you have to put your mouse on it. Then, you have to ensure that since you started moving your mouse, you have not gained (or lost) any OTHER buffs which would have shifted the position of the HoP/Bubble buff in your list/bars of buffs.

#1 is always true of any clicking, despite what any clicker will tell you. It's just mathematically and physically guaranteed. #2 is also a given, though I've seen some very impressive APMs from Korean/Taiwanese RTS players that get close, but that's an entirely different game genre. Sure, if you're a long-time clicker, you'll know "roughly" where the spell/item is located on your bars/screen, since it's static. The big issue is #2, as you can easily mis-click a buff (or buffS) while trying to rapidly remove the HoP/Bubble as you gain/lose temporary raid buffs/weapon procs/whatever, since your buff bar is NOT static. I've clicked off flasks, Fort, and other important items in the past (a bit harder to click off long-term buffs now, with the new default buff UI), which is annoying at best. Plus, the entire time you're fumbling in your buff-bar, you're not watching the screen. Sure it may only be 1-3 seconds, but that's an eternity longer than it takes to simply hit your cancelaura.

/rantoff

[Deleted]

2) It is far less accurate than keybinding. I make this distinction for ALL clicking, but it ESPECIALLY holds true for buff removal. You first have to locate the HoP/Bubble buff in the sea of other buffs you have during a raid. Then, you have to put your mouse on it. Then, you have to ensure that since you started moving your mouse, you have not gained (or lost) any OTHER buffs which would have shifted the position of the HoP/Bubble buff in your list/bars of buffs.

/rantoff

i consider it a mini game to play whilst raiding tbh - adds a bit of excitement into the mix!

[Promdates]

i consider it a mini game to play whilst raiding tbh - adds a bit of excitement into the mix!

I've tried clicking off buffs before... always end up clicking off the wrong shit because my buffs move around dynamically based on time remaining or something. Totally not worth the effort. Macro it, love it, baby it.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh interesting note after we finally killed Lei Shen last night, we were talking about things and I mentioned he could solo tank Iron Qon, and he goes "Nah that'd be too hard with the stacking debuff". Methinks I might ask to do it sometime and show him how it's done

Mangled is an idiot. Full stop. He's full alpha male and refuses to do things for the betterment of the group. He has 0 idea how the mechanics work for other classes just from this comment.

[pld]

2) It is far less accurate than keybinding. I make this distinction for ALL clicking, but it ESPECIALLY holds true for buff removal. You first have to locate the HoP/Bubble buff in the sea of other buffs you have during a raid. Then, you have to put your mouse on it. Then, you have to ensure that since you started moving your mouse, you have not gained (or lost) any OTHER buffs which would have shifted the position of the HoP/Bubble buff in your list/bars of buffs.

#1 is always true of any clicking, despite what any clicker will tell you. It's just mathematically and physically guaranteed. #2 is also a given, though I've seen some very impressive APMs from Korean/Taiwanese RTS players that get close, but that's an entirely different game genre. Sure, if you're a long-time clicker, you'll know "roughly" where the spell/item is located on your bars/screen, since it's static. The big issue is #2, as you can easily mis-click a buff (or buffS) while trying to rapidly remove the HoP/Bubble as you gain/lose temporary raid buffs/weapon procs/whatever, since your buff bar is NOT static. I've clicked off flasks, Fort, and other important items in the past (a bit harder to click off long-term buffs now, with the new default buff UI), which is annoying at best. Plus, the entire time you're fumbling in your buff-bar, you're not watching the screen. Sure it may only be 1-3 seconds, but that's an eternity longer than it takes to simply hit your cancelaura.

/rantoff

Former Korean Counter-Strike and Starcraft player here (with decent APM) and it's still no where near as accurate or efficient to click off buffs vs. just using a cancelmacro. Like PD said, even the most accurate player will end up clicking off the wrong buffs from time to time. Add up the time it takes to figure out which buff you're now missing, rebuffing, and the time spent looking at your buff bar instead of the actual fight....and it's just inefficient.

Factor in the fact that I get trigger happy when under pressure, and i'll end up with an empty buff bar

[Nairobi]

Right, that was my point. The "superstars" of the APM/twitch community aren't even able to do it faster/better than a macro, so anyone who claims that it's a superior method is misinformed or stubborn.

Was trying to give context, not say that clicking is acceptable as long as you're Korean/good at clicking

[Promdates]

Former Korean Counter-Strike and Starcraft player here (with decent APM)

This really is the easiest/fastest way to get used to using keyboard EVERYTHING.

[Nairobi]

This really is the easiest/fastest way to get used to using keyboard EVERYTHING.

Playing SC/RTS?

Or being Korean?

[Promdates]

Yes.
/minchar

[RastlinER]

I'm the raid leader for a small 10 man guild that's just gotten together. Some of us have been together years, our pally tank is one of them. Recently I've had to question why he's dying more than he really should be and can't seem to hold threat like he was. I've looked over sites and did what I could to help but not having played a pally tank in a long time (IE early cata) I can't really speak from experience


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...azard/advanced
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...28/?enc=bosses

Is there anything anyone can point out that might help a bit? Maybe offer some talent choices for the different fights? (I know on my brewmaster my talent layout is totally different for Megaera than it is for Lei-shen).

On a side note, he's a clicker and I guess you could say keyboard turner, though I question that last one. Been that way since BC and I don't see it changing anytime soon (I've tried...for years...)

[Deleted]

I'm the raid leader for a small 10 man guild that's just gotten together. Some of us have been together years, our pally tank is one of them. Recently I've had to question why he's dying more than he really should be and can't seem to hold threat like he was. I've looked over sites and did what I could to help but not having played a pally tank in a long time (IE early cata) I can't really speak from experience


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...azard/advanced
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...28/?enc=bosses

Is there anything anyone can point out that might help a bit? Maybe offer some talent choices for the different fights? (I know on my brewmaster my talent layout is totally different for Megaera than it is for Lei-shen).

On a side note, he's a clicker and I guess you could say keyboard turner, though I question that last one. Been that way since BC and I don't see it changing anytime soon (I've tried...for years...)

- Sanctified Wrath is a bad talent (till 5.4, where it will change, but it will be still situational) for prot.
- Her rotation is awful.
Ex: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...?s=1635&e=2149

Normally the rotation looks like this:
JC _ _ CJ _ C _ and repeat.
This results in a 3:2 Crusader Strike:Judgment ratio.
He used J 49 times, and CS(+HotR) 21 times.

And that under 8:33! (513 sec)
He basically used J every 10 sec (has a base cd of 6s, reduced by her haste to 5.6s, should be used on cd) and CS every 24 sec. CS has a base CD of 4.5s and again, should be used on CD. Because of this he had a awfully low uptime on her AM (Shield of the Righteous, ~50% less physical damage taken). Her uptime of 11.7% should be at least 3 times higher, and even that would be bad.

- He doesn't keeps Sacred Shield up. He has 22% uptime on it, while it should be near always up.
- He also didn't use Seal of Insight and the Battle Healer Glyph, for which he should die. :3

On Tortos:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...?s=5025&e=5294

- He seems to be switching from Seal of Insight to Seal of Truth, and such. He shouldn't. Especially while he actively tanks something.
- He uses Word of Glory a lot, he used it 11 times, which is ~10 times more than recommended.
- Her SotR uptime was low here too. On a fight where he tunnels the boss it should be over 50%. Not 20%.
- But he actually managed to keep SS up here.

If he is a clicker, then I'm not surprised. The prot rotation isn't forgiving, especially if he is going for haste. What basically has no point then, since he doesn't uses half of her GCDs out anyway. Maybe he can go for a mastery (or avoidance) build, but... it won't be much better. Unless he finds a way how to click her spells way faster.