[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Deleted]

I think people using 100% dps cloak are about on the same page as people using 100% tanking cloak. People need to recognise that both cloaks have usages and are better in different scenarios.

Checking how many times a cloak procced is not really accurate since the assumption is that each time it procced it saved your life, and that you would have wiped if it didnt.

On the same coin, I am often using my tanking cloak as a defensive CD, intentionally allowing it to proc. That does not mean I would have died if I didnt have the cloak, I would rather adapt my CDs.

[Aceshigh]

I think people using 100% dps cloak are about on the same page as people using 100% tanking cloak. People need to recognise that both cloaks have usages and are better in different scenarios.

Checking how many times a cloak procced is not really accurate since the assumption is that each time it procced it saved your life, and that you would have wiped if it didnt.

On the same coin, I am often using my tanking cloak as a defensive CD, intentionally allowing it to proc. That does not mean I would have died if I didnt have the cloak, I would rather adapt my CDs.

Unless you are using it intentionally as cd to cheese a mechanic, like tanking extra breaths on first boss or soemthing, then then each time it proccd it DID save your life.

[Nillo]

Unless you are using it intentionally as cd to cheese a mechanic, like tanking extra breaths on first boss or soemthing, then then each time it proccd it DID save your life.

Unless you were already the last man standing in which case it didn't do anything.

[Aceshigh]

Unless you were already the last man standing in which case it didn't do anything.

And I can't imagine anyone counting that as "OH MY CLOAK PROC'D, USEFUL" anyway. When looking at the cloak and how valuable it is no one who has ANY CLUE will take that into account.

[Gorfion]

Considering that our warrior tank has died about 2 seconds after his cloak has procced, yes the cloak "saved" him but it didn't really in that situation. I believe instances like this are what firefly is referring to.

[Promdates]

Considering that our warrior tank has died about 2 seconds after his cloak has procced, yes the cloak "saved" him but it didn't really in that situation. I believe instances like this are what firefly is referring to.

Did you look at the log and see how long between the death and the last heal was? How big was the two hits that caused him to die? What % of health was he at the time of the proc? If you manage to take a few hits, get to a low % hp, and then take a larger hit to proc the cloak, then take another hit to kill you... thats either a failure on his part for not using a cooldown or a failure on the healers fault for going such a long period of time without healing the tank.

[Burnick]

Man, Since the nerf too Sacred shield, Vengence, and change to grand crusader my dps is like, half of what it was and I feel sooo squishy in SoO.

After improving myself from the last time I posted here, (Ended up having a 90% and above uptimes on Sacred shield, except for fights like council if I ended up frozen before I reapplyed it and a 40-50%+ up time on SOTR depending on procs and stuff) And taking considerably less damage.

Now with the sacred shield nerf I wanna cry, I consistently pretty much keep DP up on CD especially for larger hits ect, and having SOTR up as much as possible, which has lowered alittle considering grand crusader literally never procs for me unless I have a pack of stuff on me. (21% parry or something like that unbuffed).

But yea, After those changes and SS nerf I'm taking alot more damage even my healer who I've been raiding with for a long time says Im squishier then I've ever been(Before I came here, got alot of pointers ect and actually took them into account and used them) and it sucks.

The only boss I actually had problems with thou was Kor'Kron Dark Shaman's last night, Where I couldn't even take a tick from the slimes as they came down ever with a CD up, Well my co-tank(Guardian druid) Literally just stood in it and took nothing.
Anyone else kinda feel the same? No Avenger shield procs, taking more damage then you're use to since the SS nerf, that stuff.

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Eranisa/simple
No longer have World of logs(The guild doesn't record them from my knowledge)

[pld]

Man, Since the nerf too Sacred shield, Vengence, and change to grand crusader my dps is like, half of what it was and I feel sooo squishy in SoO.

After improving myself from the last time I posted here, (Ended up having a 90% and above uptimes on Sacred shield, except for fights like council if I ended up frozen before I reapplyed it and a 40-50%+ up time on SOTR depending on procs and stuff) And taking considerably less damage.

Now with the sacred shield nerf I wanna cry, I consistently pretty much keep DP up on CD especially for larger hits ect, and having SOTR up as much as possible, which has lowered alittle considering grand crusader literally never procs for me unless I have a pack of stuff on me. (21% parry or something like that unbuffed).

But yea, After those changes and SS nerf I'm taking alot more damage even my healer who I've been raiding with for a long time says Im squishier then I've ever been(Before I came here, got alot of pointers ect and actually took them into account and used them) and it sucks.

The only boss I actually had problems with thou was Kor'Kron Dark Shaman's last night, Where I couldn't even take a tick from the slimes as they came down ever with a CD up, Well my co-tank(Guardian druid) Literally just stood in it and took nothing.
Anyone else kinda feel the same? No Avenger shield procs, taking more damage then you're use to since the SS nerf, that stuff.

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Eranisa/simple
No longer have World of logs(The guild doesn't record them from my knowledge)

That seems a bit odd because I don't feel like I was hit THAT hard by the nerfs. We have fairly similar haste levels (you have a tad more than I do actually) so it's not likely that my ShoR uptime and numbers in general are drastically different than yours.

Two things: I would consider trying out EF. I tested SS on our first night of raiding and I really felt the nerfs on that one. Switching to EF took a bit of getting used to, and it'll affect your ShoR uptime (without the 4P), but the buff is worth checking out.

At your haste levels, DP should yield higher results than HA. While HA is more controlled, I find DP great for building up BoG stacks (when using EF) and the RNG factor is really not that bad.

Without WoL, it's hard to go deeper, but as long as you're generating as much HoPo as possible and using your CDs effectively, you shouldn't be feeling gimped. I tanked the entire Galakras P2 last night by rolling CDs (400k ticks, woo!) and the majority of Iron Juggernaut. The nerfs hurt, but we're still in a good spot!

[Gorfion]

@promdate No, I didn't bother--it was actually a death on trash. Just wanted to give an example of what firefly might have been referring to.

[krames]

Man, Since the nerf too Sacred shield, Vengence, and change to grand crusader my dps is like, half of what it was and I feel sooo squishy in SoO.

After improving myself from the last time I posted here, (Ended up having a 90% and above uptimes on Sacred shield, except for fights like council if I ended up frozen before I reapplyed it and a 40-50%+ up time on SOTR depending on procs and stuff) And taking considerably less damage.

Now with the sacred shield nerf I wanna cry, I consistently pretty much keep DP up on CD especially for larger hits ect, and having SOTR up as much as possible, which has lowered alittle considering grand crusader literally never procs for me unless I have a pack of stuff on me. (21% parry or something like that unbuffed).

But yea, After those changes and SS nerf I'm taking alot more damage even my healer who I've been raiding with for a long time says Im squishier then I've ever been(Before I came here, got alot of pointers ect and actually took them into account and used them) and it sucks.

The only boss I actually had problems with thou was Kor'Kron Dark Shaman's last night, Where I couldn't even take a tick from the slimes as they came down ever with a CD up, Well my co-tank(Guardian druid) Literally just stood in it and took nothing.
Anyone else kinda feel the same? No Avenger shield procs, taking more damage then you're use to since the SS nerf, that stuff.

I am nowhere near geared as anyone here, and I'm still relatively re-learning paladin tanking, going with EF is a great alternative to SS especially if you're seeing that much of a hit from the nerf. I average out at 60k ticks and the highest I've seen is 97k. It's definitely something worth looking into even before the T16 4P. I haven't used SS since the patch so I'm not exactly sure how the SS nerf would have effected me.

[Kethmil]

Hi there!

Just got tank tier legs from celestials. I know legs is precisely what we should get from offtier if aiming for 4pc, but well, was trying to get hands from them.

Question is, should replace my NM Legplates of the Dark Parasite (522) for tier legs (553) ?

Will be losing like 600 haste and some expertise by doing so, but also will get something like 500 armor, 1000 stamina, 500 str and like 1k mastery.

Is it worth? Do those 3k of less desirable stats make up for the 600 haste loss?

Thank you.

[Nillo]

500 armor 500 Strength almost 1k stamina 1k mastery some dodge ... at the cost of 500 haste and 1k expertise (which most likely ends up as mastery anyway)
How is that even a question o0?

[Kethmil]

hasteholic here ;S

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

1000 stamina extra on an item is about 22k life raid-buffed. 1000 mastery is 1.8% more mitigation from ShoR. Just saying.

[gerus]

Hi there!

Just got tank tier legs from celestials. I know legs is precisely what we should get from offtier if aiming for 4pc, but well, was trying to get hands from them.

Question is, should replace my NM Legplates of the Dark Parasite (522) for tier legs (553) ?

Will be losing like 600 haste and some expertise by doing so, but also will get something like 500 armor, 1000 stamina, 500 str and like 1k mastery.

Is it worth? Do those 3k of less desirable stats make up for the 600 haste loss?

Thank you.

Here's some analysis given some stat weights. Stam is what I would consider to be artificially low in light of T16 and the fact that you're upgrading from 522. <insert argument about stam not being garbage stat followed by posts disagreeing forever>. Rule of thumb: str and armor are roughly half the weight of haste, stam/dodge/parry are one-third, and mastery is thee-quarters. Hit and exp are slightly above until you reach and/or exceed cap with stats on gear alone. You can napkin out upgrade decisions on the fly using that method.

Parasite
armor 5234 * (0.60) = 3140.4
stam 2238 * ( 0.34) = 760.9
str 1398 * (0.55) = 768.9
haste 1034 * (1.00) = 1034
expertise 831 * (1.01) = 839.31
total - 6543.51

tier
armor 5720 * (0.60) = 3432
stam 3121 * (0.34) = 1061.14
str 1920 * (0.55) = 1056
dodge 1368 * (0.35) = 478.8
mastery 1204 * (0.7) = 842.8
total - 6870.74

Tier wins but it is close. Given the world of T16 I think the stamina ranking is really low. If I bumped it up this would stop being a contest pre-reforge. If we used the value of stam that actually contributes to damage smoothing I could've stopped basically at comparing the stam of the two items . blah blah blah mana sponge blah blah.

Post reforge:
I wouldn't reforge the parasite.

Tier:
armor 5720 * (0.60) = 3432
stam 3121 * (0.34) = 1061.14
str 1920 * (0.55) = 1056
dodge 821 * (0.35) = 287.35
haste 547 * (1.00) = 547
mastery 1204 * (0.7) = 842.8
total - 7226.29

This is where it ends up not being so close.

TL;DR - Any haste/mastery or haste/expertise item at 522 can be replaced by something with a garbage stat (dodge/parry) + a useful secondary stat (mastery/expertise) at 553 because of the stam, str, and armor contribution from the ilvl increase plus the fact that you can reforge half that haste back.

[Deleted]

While I do agree that the 553 legs are of course better than the 522 legs (even though I completely disagree with your stat weights).

One thing that you should keep in mind is that you should never really count the stat weight of expertise when comparing two items. That stat weights of expertise has been irrelevant for people using exp>haste since entry level T14 and for people going for haste>exp since entry level T15. Now in T16 it is completely irrelevant unless your gear has the worst itemization in the world or you are still very very undergeared.

[MarshallX]

Can someone assist with my Prot DPS and subsequently my Prot Threat? I am tanking with a monk and I feel absolutely useless, he has to actually relax on bosses after I taunt even with vengeance changes and AOE packs are laughable. I know monks are pretty insane right now and their Keg Smash is stupid, but I feel like there's something I can do...

I'm offspec tanking, filling in for our 2nd tank right now, so it won't last long. But I still feel like it's something I should work on.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=3897&e=4222
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Darot/advanced

[Deleted]

One thing that you should keep in mind is that you should never really count the stat weight of expertise when comparing two items.

Well, if you can reforge any excess, expertise has the stat weight of whatever you can reforge into. I tend to value hit and expertise at the next highest stat (say, haste at 1), as I've been capping them and able to reforge.

Currently, extra hit has a weight of 0 for me though, as I'm so loaded with the stuff I'm tempted to buy the VP expertise trinket and ditch my feather.

[Nillo]

Well, if you can reforge any excess, expertise has the stat weight of whatever you can reforge into. I tend to value hit and expertise at the next highest stat (say, haste at 1), as I've been capping them and able to reforge.

Which still makes no sense since you shouldn't be able to reforge exp to haste in 540+ gear.

The stat value of exp is equal to mastery period.

[Deleted]

Which still makes no sense since you shouldn't be able to reforge exp to hit in 540+ gear.

To haste (not hit) you mean?

Of course it makes sense for me - not everyone is in 540+ gear.