[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Deleted]

Right, I'd love an overall review on my logs & armory, could anyone do this for me please? cheers!

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rfall/advanced

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mwrakuz2vbwas337/

Regarding gearing.

What you really should change

Haste gem in cloak
Haste enchant on gloves

What I would also change but is more a matter of personal opinion, so dont take it for gospel but rather as consideration.

Haste gem in head
Mastery enchant on bracers
Haste enchant on feet
Mastery enchant on shield
Haste gem in ring 1

Dont have time to check logs atm, may do it later.

[Korie]

Dont have time to check logs atm, may do it later.

Please do

[dzidek]

Maybe here I will be able to find some help... We are currently 10/14HC but our pala isn't good enought. He has low survivability, low dps, can't keep aggro in aoe situation (sometime even in single target). And has some problems with tact and class skills, but it is unlikely you will help with this
I personally have a poor understanding of prot paladin. I have only low geared prot paladin alt and don't have any issues with keeping agro. Even with low gear I can easily keep aggro in aoe situations with folks doing 5 times more dps than me... I conclude from this that the paladin can keep aggro. But as I said my knowledge about prot palas is ultra low.

Here is armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%BAm/advanced
Here are our logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/250320/

Any hints for him? In general and in details.
Recent problems, for example, are:
- on Spoils HC our warrior and balance druid constantly overaggro him.
- on Thok HC when healers for seconds lost focus on him he dies. This fight requires a lot of healing and second tank (monk) don't have any issues.
General issues:
- low survivability
- low dps
- problems with aggro, especially in aoe situations

I would be grateful for any help.

[Deleted]

First his armory:

- He still uses Sacred Shield. He should use Eternal Flame. Especially on hard hitting fights like Thok. This may cause the biggest issue when it comes to his survivability
- He uses the glyph "Battle healer". He may not read the 5.4 Patch Notee?! In 5.3 that Glyph was a no brainer, but now it's just wasted. He trades a 100 % SoI on himself againgst a 30% SoI on a random raid-member. 2nd survivability-issue!
- For my liking, he uses to many non-haste items. But maybe they were a huge upgrade in ilvl (and so stamina/str/stats) from his previous items. I won't comment that, but his haste-level seems quite low compared to his itemlevel
- He should enchant his gloves and boots with +haste
- I would take the socket-bonus in the helm. 270 stam for just 1 orange gem is good (minor-issue)

Logs:
- In general he has very low healing and dps
- As mentioned: low hps and survivability comes from taking the wrong glyps/talents
- Hi uptime from "Shield of the Righteous" is abysmal. I checked your raid from 16/10/2013 where you killed a few heroic-bosses: Protectors 30%, Norushen 26% (ok, this boss can cause issues with logging), Sha 44%, Galakras 35% (bad, even when he was on tower-duty), Iron Juggernaut 25%, Shamans 35%, Nazgrim 42%, Malkorok 35%
- He should have 1.5-2 times the amount.
- On 17/10/2013 at your spoils-tries he has 29% uptime in your longest try (05:49)

That's all I see for now. I bet FF can find some more issues
But your raid must be very good to achieve 10/14 heroic with such a tank....

[Deleted]

snip

1) He is doing a bad rotation, and even that is too slow. He generally has around the same Crusader Strike uses as Judgment casts which is bad, CS should be 1.3-1.5 times of J.
2) He is using Sacred Shield, while EF is considered better now. But even on SS, his uptime lacks.
3) He somewhy spams Word of Glory...?
4) Because of 1) & 4) he has low uptime on AM, and low DPS too.

He should re-check the basic rotation, and practice it a lot on a dummy.

[celinamuna]

1) He is doing a bad rotation, and even that is too slow. He generally has around the same Crusader Strike uses as Judgment casts which is bad, CS should be 1.3-1.5 times of J.
2) He is using Sacred Shield, while EF is considered better now. But even on SS, his uptime lacks.
3) He somewhy spams Word of Glory...?
4) Because of 1) & 4) he has low uptime on AM, and low DPS too.

He should re-check the basic rotation, and practice it a lot on a dummy.

I agree on all points except for #1 and the dps part of #4
The rotation that you're talking about may lead to higher SotR uptime, but it is not the highest dps one.
While it is ~better for progression fights, after some point people might want to opt out for a higher dps rotation.
Furthermore the use of the word "rotation" makes me somewhat annoyed since it is only ~"rotation" given constant uptime on the boss if we're tanking entire time too.
While i can't be arsed to look up and update it for 5.4 and switch from SS to EF, during 5.3 i've played around a lot with simcraft just to test out the "rotations" and felt that there's a lot of improvements that can be made that might lead to slightly higher dmg taken (albeit not too spiky) it can lead to ~20%+ increase in dps (which oddly enough depends A LOT on the gear that you're using)

[Deleted]

I agree on all points except for #1 and the dps part of #4
The rotation that you're talking about may lead to higher SotR uptime, but it is not the highest dps one.
While it is ~better for progression fights, after some point people might want to opt out for a higher dps rotation.
Furthermore the use of the word "rotation" makes me somewhat annoyed since it is only ~"rotation" given constant uptime on the boss if we're tanking entire time too.
While i can't be arsed to look up and update it for 5.4 and switch from SS to EF, during 5.3 i've played around a lot with simcraft just to test out the "rotations" and felt that there's a lot of improvements that can be made that might lead to slightly higher dmg taken (albeit not too spiky) it can lead to ~20%+ increase in dps (which oddly enough depends A LOT on the gear that you're using)

The only point where you could opt for higher DPS is pushing CS lower on the priority, when you have something else to cast. The problem with this is, that it only reliably happens in execute range, other than that you will still end up in the 1,3-1,5 range. not even close to 1.0. Hence I didn't even excepted the strict 1.5 value, to which our basic rotation leads too.

And... do you realize that no single class has a "rotation" in wow, yet every single person understands what they mean by it?

[Jerseyjay]

Hey guys if you go to YouTube search jerzy jay and check the vid I made to help new players tank. Just some advice

[Nillo]

The only point where you could opt for higher DPS is pushing CS lower on the priority, when you have something else to cast. The problem with this is, that it only reliably happens in execute range, other than that you will still end up in the 1,3-1,5 range. not even close to 1.0. Hence I didn't even excepted the strict 1.5 value, to which our basic rotation leads too.

And... do you realize that no single class has a "rotation" in wow, yet every single person understands what they mean by it?

Idk - I really don't see much of a point in having such a high priority on CS. Best case scenario you have 3 CS for 2 J, but every time you're either
- On the move
- have a GC proc
- just don't give a shit about slightly more HP gen
the ratio drops and you'll often end up only slightly higher than 1:1

And well on topic: Really sad to say people still haven't caught up with the Battle Healer change....
And... prot pally aoe dps is awful atm - still hoping for some fix to HotR/Cons damage !:

- - - Updated - - -

boots with +haste

I really can't see how this would make sense beyond the first tier of an expansion (as in that movement speed > insignificant amount of haste)

[kiblermission]

Okay, so I'm not a prot pala, but my OT is a prot pala, and he needs some massive help, so I implore the knowledge here to help me. I'm a blood dk, and my prot pala is having massive MASSIVE issues with threat, and damage. There are a few things I note, and am trying to teach him, and he seems to not be able to get it. Judgement is his #1 ability... Saddens me to say this but he gets many more judges then CS's in a fight. and I'm struggling to comprehend his rotation, but he holds back on SoTR, he doesn't use cds when tanking, unless it's last second, omg help me moments. He in all senses of the words, is bad, but there's a problem here. I can not replace him because his wife is our shaman healer, and she is a really decent healer. We have another person in guild who plays a paladin tank, who keeps up with me, but this guy is just bad, so please knowledge of Palas, tell me what he is doing wrong here. I'll link below his armory and logs from this week, compared with a month ago, when I had a mastery build which was when I was doing low enough damage not to rip threat from him (all the time that is).

Last night's logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cxwrtpxzudi02w6m/
(This was before we talked to him to up his numbers)
1 month ago:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4gzatlufa7lt0v2t/

His armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Boozze/simple

My armory is below V

[Nillo]

Let's see:
Really really bad itemized gear (too low on exp , way too high on hit and avoidance) and thus odd gem choices (those exp/stam gems....)
Wrong gloves enchant

=> he's missing about 10% haste from what he should have at that item level

[Deleted]

Okay, so I'm not a prot pala, but my OT is a prot pala, and he needs some massive help, so I implore the knowledge here to help me. I'm a blood dk, and my prot pala is having massive MASSIVE issues with threat, and damage. There are a few things I note, and am trying to teach him, and he seems to not be able to get it. Judgement is his #1 ability... Saddens me to say this but he gets many more judges then CS's in a fight. and I'm struggling to comprehend his rotation, but he holds back on SoTR, he doesn't use cds when tanking, unless it's last second, omg help me moments. He in all senses of the words, is bad, but there's a problem here. I can not replace him because his wife is our shaman healer, and she is a really decent healer. We have another person in guild who plays a paladin tank, who keeps up with me, but this guy is just bad, so please knowledge of Palas, tell me what he is doing wrong here. I'll link below his armory and logs from this week, compared with a month ago, when I had a mastery build which was when I was doing low enough damage not to rip threat from him (all the time that is).

Last night's logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cxwrtpxzudi02w6m/
(This was before we talked to him to up his numbers)
1 month ago:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4gzatlufa7lt0v2t/

His armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Boozze/simple

My armory is below V

If he doesn't read guides, and won't listen to your advice, he won't improve, ever.

Bolded section is your real problem : if you are "hostage" of a bad member, then amputation is the best choice otherwise your others guildmates might aswell flee the plague that your pala tank seems to be.

BUT, if I just judged too quickly about his state of mind regarding your advice, then hand him this section's guide on prot pala, and have him read it thoroughly. If he doesn't give a crap, then get lost with him, take your other prot paladin, and rock it together. If his wife leaves, find another healer it will take, which is sad if she suits your raid team.

[Deleted]

Please do

So what stands out to me is that you are using J>CS a lot. While it is nothing wrong with that persay, I do that a lot myself to max out dps. As long as you are aware that it costs you HoPo generation.
You are also using Divine Protection a few times too few. You only used it once on your protectors kill for example. Considering you have the 2p you should be spamming that all the time. Something to think about atleast.
Also noticed that you do not use hand of sacrifice that much. It is a great tool to help your raid.

Other than that, you are looking good, but only checked a few fights. Dont see any major errors. Without going into too much detail as I got raid in a few minutes, I can say that your SotR uptime is decent, your dps is decent. The warrior should be outdpsing you unless there is a major gear difference / vengeance difference.
You keep up EF well.
Of course there is always room for improvement, but imo you are playing well on par and above with your raid team.

[celinamuna]

Idk - I really don't see much of a point in having such a high priority on CS. Best case scenario you have 3 CS for 2 J, but every time you're either
- On the move
- have a GC proc
- just don't give a shit about slightly more HP gen
the ratio drops and you'll often end up only slightly higher than 1:1

And well on topic: Really sad to say people still haven't caught up with the Battle Healer change....
And... prot pally aoe dps is awful atm - still hoping for some fix to HotR/Cons damage !:

This. Plus seeing how every single one of our abilities including "filler" hits harder than cs....

On topic of aoe dps, i honestly don't expect anything this patch. In order to bring the actuall aoe dps up there, they need to buff HotR by ~200%+ (blizz won't make that magnitude of change mid tier), buff consecrate by like 50% or uncap AS (that would actually be ~keg smash) but decrease bounce radius.

[Korie]

Of course there is always room for improvement, but imo you are playing well on par and above with your raid team.

That is very nice to hear, it seems like they tend to blame tanks for whatever happens, on Immerseus it was a "tank issue" because the pool grew(while I was inside) when a fuckton of black slimes went through, gg.

[rhandric]

That is very nice to hear, it seems like they tend to blame tanks for whatever happens, on Immerseus it was a "tank issue" because the pool grew(while I was inside) when a fuckton of black slimes went through, gg.

Really? That sounds like LFR/LFD, not a raid...

[Moussaka]

Do you guys soak the corruption balls on Norushen ? Generally neither me or my co-tank take the orb. I did it yesterday initially to maximise dps but had to soak some. Raid lead said if I wanted to dps, I have to go Ret. Meh.
On the dps topic, can you guys take a look at our logs ? http://worldoflogs.com/reports/w5lxepn14w8lxypp/
I feel like I must do better than that (although I wasn't very lucky until yesterday, finally got some pieces: Thok's trinket, haste/crit boots and ring, NM mode) but do not really know where I can improve.
Thanks !

[Evoix]

Do you guys soak the corruption balls on Norushen ? Generally neither me or my co-tank take the orb. I did it yesterday initially to maximise dps but had to soak some. Raid lead said if I wanted to dps, I have to go Ret. Meh.
On the dps topic, can you guys take a look at our logs ? http://worldoflogs.com/reports/w5lxepn14w8lxypp/
I feel like I must do better than that (although I wasn't very lucky until yesterday, finally got some pieces: Thok's trinket, haste/crit boots and ring, NM mode) but do not really know where I can improve.
Thanks !

durring first week, we had multiple less than 4% wipes. the only reason we got our kill was tank DPS putting us over the top. Now though its not quite needed, so if you guys arnt close to hitting berserk then i wouldnt worry about it to much.

[Rocketsauce]

I updated elvui the other night and it has wiped my ability to see tank debuffs on the targettarget window. This makes tank swapping stupid for me as now I have to wait for the MT to call for a taunt, and before I would just auto-taunt at X stacks, etc...anyone know how to fix that?

[Deleted]

...anyone know how to fix that?

Don't know about elvui, but I usually set focus on the tank to keep an eye on their debuffs. DBM does a decent job of informing you too.