Poll: Whose to blame for the Horde's current state?

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  1. #41
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    Partly surely but not all the blame can be put on him. No one could have foresaw Garrosh would go on a path of genocide. Nor would he have foresaw that the level headed orcs would be so spineless in their objection to such ideas (I'm looking at you Eitrigg) nor would he have predicted how bad the orcs were craving bloodlust and would swarm to Garrosh's ideas. All in all Garrosh is mainly to blame because he is the one fucking things up, but Thrall has to take some responsibility for what happened. Not fulfilling his promise to his people to return once the Cataclysm was over is a big deal as well.

  2. #42
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Thrall isn't responsible for how Garrosh turned out.

    He did what he did in good faith, you can't hold a person responsible for putting faith in someone, even if they betray the trust.
    #boycottchina

  3. #43
    I hate thrall, He was cool for a while.

    But doing dragon soul and the 4.3 dungeons made me sick of him. He was powerful enough to give the final blow to deathwing, but not powerful enough to solo the dungeon or WALK BY HIMSELF.

  4. #44
    He should have made Cairne leader, would have been more interesting I think

  5. #45
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    Thrall legendary hero who have a flaw he cant make a fair judgement of a persons character.
    Garrosh Berserker who will best serve the hord in the shock troops.

    If it is not a relay big conspiracy (it do not sound like Thrall) that Garrosh consciously is a big ass to force all fraction to united in there effort todefeat him.
    Last edited by mmoc957ac7b970; 2012-11-10 at 02:28 PM.

  6. #46
    Garrosh is the leader he is because Thrall left the Orcish Horde in disarray. Any Orcish leader put in place would have had to face similarly tough decisions and would most likely have failed in bringing the Horde the supplies it needed to thrive in Durotar instead of simply surviving.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    He did what he did in good faith, you can't hold a person responsible for putting faith in someone, even if they betray the trust.
    Yes you can....
    Thrall ignored all the signs that Garrosh was bad at leadership during the Northrend campaign and even ignored Cairne to the point where it caused Cairne's death because Thrall was too ignorant. Thrall is an awful judge of character. He even appointed Garrosh knowing something would go bad.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-11-10 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    Thrall put Garrosh in charge, because he is an Orc of the old ways! Look at his skin, and you can see this!
    I take a large bit of issue with this statement, specificly the bolded part. Being a Brown Skinned Mag'har Orc would indicate that he is a 100% normal Orc, Free of the Fel Taint that drove the Old Horde to rampage and Bloodlust. If anything, being of the "old ways" and being Brown Skinned would have made for a calmer, less violent, more Traditional Shamanistic Orc.

    Garrosh's personality has much more to do with his Family Tree then it does the color of his skin.

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Both Thrall and Garrosh are to blame.

    Thrall is to blame because he didn't put the Warsong in check, he left them do whatever they wanted. Then, he found Grom's son and he told him only of his father's heroic deeds, but forgat to mention the bad things. So Garrosh got the idea that what his father did was heroic and his father only abandoned him and drank demon blood to ensure a greater future for the Horde race.

    Now Garrosh's blame starts. He didn't bother to question about the not-so-good parts of his father's legacy. He forgat his father drinking demon blood because his father saved the orc race. Furthermore, he left himself be tempted by emotions, he saw an orc (Krenna?) who was unhappy because orcs got their stuff from trade, they were not self-sufficient, even if they had all they needed still from this trade. He disregarded Gorgonna's view of the situation, as well as Thrall's.
    He then went to Northrend where he showed he's a hothead at the Violet Citadel meeting, just like Varian. If he'd have stood his ground he'd have shown he's actually better then Varian.

    Thrall now made the mistake of putting Garrosh Warchief with no control from others. He could have put Saurfang as acting warchief until Garrosh was ready if he really wanted Garrosh, so to say Saurfang being warchief and Garrosh his advisor. This way Saurfang would have tempered Garrosh's view and explained to him why he did this and that. There was also Eltrigg as a choice. Even if both Saurfang and Eltrigg were old, as a temporary warchiefs they'd have fit there to train Garrosh.

    Then comes Garrosh's mistake. Because of the events of the Shattering he lost the trust of the tauren. Not because he killed Cairne, but because when Maghda sent the message that she helped him kill Cairne he didn't send an army to help retake Thunder Bluff. By this he showed the tauren he's not on their side and if Maghda hadn't tainted his honor he'd have been on her side for she was stronger.

    Then Garrosh all over, becoming more and more violent and making allies go away and more enemies appearing.

  10. #50
    Fluffy Kitten Zoma's Avatar
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    Thrall didn't really have a lot of options. He had to leave his place as Warchief to heal the world. It's debatable whether or not the Horde needs an Orc Warchief, but they do need a racial leader. Varok Saurfang is in mourning, Dranosh is dead, Rexxar is in Outland (and doesn't even like being around people, let alone be a warchief), Eitrigg and Drek'Thar are older than dirt, etc. Pretty much every notable orc was incapable of being a leader at the time. Then there is Garrosh. Hotheaded, yes, but with a lot of support from the orc people do to "his" victory in Northrend. So Thrall went with his final option, and left him with his three most trusted advisors.

  11. #51
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    Thrall is to blame for the Horde's current state
    YEAH! Why did he leave the good old horde to save the world? Pff, rather save the horde! /sarcasm off.

  12. #52
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Orcs of the old ways weren't as extremely aggressive as Garrosh is. Garrosh is aggressive to an extreme.
    Aye, Horde players questing in Nagrand helped him out with this, before he was a snivelling shell of an Orc.

  13. #53
    Fluffy Kitten Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor Faustus View Post
    Aye, Horde players questing in Nagrand helped him out with this, before he was a snivelling shell of an Orc.
    Oh crap, it's our fault! What have I done?!

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Garrosh is the leader he is because Thrall left the Orcish Horde in disarray. Any Orcish leader put in place would have had to face similarly tough decisions and would most likely have failed in bringing the Horde the supplies it needed to thrive in Durotar instead of simply surviving.
    I disagree. Yes, the Horde, and especially the orcs, were not in a good place. However, Garrosh destroyed the water supply of Orgrimmar by making goblins build a giant quarry and polluting the waters too. A less hothead leader wouldn't have done that, and for food would have likely asked the tauren for it or some land to build farms.

    The night elf situation was kind of problematic, but when Hamuul said he was under attack by Horde orcs, if a less-hothead orc was in charge everyone on the Horde side would have realized those orcs were not sent by the leader. Under Garrosh's rule it was easy to assume they were because of how he acted.
    Then Cairne would have not died as the argument would have been settled with trying to find the actual guilty party. And once those were found, the night elf situation would have also been partially solved.

  15. #55
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maveaux View Post
    YEAH! Why did he leave the good old horde to save the world? Pff, rather save the horde! /sarcasm off.
    Pretty much this ^

    If Thrall hadn't gone to save azeroth then the horde wouldn't have anything to fight over, since the hour of fecking twilight would have killed everyone.

    Still, petty horde and alliance players don't think outside there boxes.
    #boycottchina

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Orcs of the old ways weren't as extremely aggressive as Garrosh is. Garrosh is aggressive to an extreme.

    Ithink most people have a big misunderstanding of orcs when they say the orcs of old. Orcs as a whole where hunters and much more similar to the taurens before the demonic corruption.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Thrall isn't responsible for how Garrosh turned out.

    He did what he did in good faith, you can't hold a person responsible for putting faith in someone, even if they betray the trust.
    He was with Garrosh during the Northrend campaign he had him around quite often and he saw how Garrosh behaved, he knew him. That is the main reason I blame Thrall. Garrosh was never meant to be Warchief material, a general of course, but someone always had to reign him in, the same reason Sylvanas can never become warchief you would have the same fiasco.

    Not to mention he was warned not to appoint him, even as acting warchief, but he did not listen and now the world pays the price.

  18. #58
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    Thrall is an idiot for passing the reins to Garrosh. He gambled his life's work on Hellscream and lost, now Cairne is dead, all of the other leaders apart from Gallywix (who has become something of a Garrosh fanboy) are pissed and the Horde is barely holding itself together. That much is on Thrall.

    That being said Garrosh alone is responsible for his actions. Theramore wasn't Thrall's fault and no amount of foresight would have told him it would happen. Nor would it have told him about Garrosh summoning demons, inviting the Blackrocks in or his intention to completely genocide his enemies. Garrosh is ultimately the one to blame and he'll be the one to pay for it.
    Theramore was totally foreseeable. The Horde had a problem with it from the get go when they saw the Alliance trying to make a home so close to were the Horde lived. They thought they were there to attack and such. And while this is not the case that is what some of the Horde(aka Gaarrosh and his filth) believed. If you did not see Theramore getting attacked you are blind.

    I do blame Thrall partly because of Garrosh's actions. Thrall's flaw is that he believes too much in people and sympathizes too much. this is why he gave Garrosh command. I personally think Thrall should be exiled for it, he put his trust and gave reigns to someone who should have never had it in the first place.

    Also someone tried to point out that none of the other leaders tried to do anything, that is false, Cairne tried to do something.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Sorry? WHAT? At no point the whole time Garrosh as been around he has never summoned demons. The ones in jade forest were forsaken thry were lead by a forsaken leader.
    It's in the Tides of War novel. Garrosh used demons to steal the focusing iris from the blue dragonflight.
    "Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken. Always and forever!"

    Perfection is so horribly dull, don't you think?

  20. #60
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    It's in the Tides of War novel. Garrosh used demons to steal the focusing iris from the blue dragonflight.
    He also command at the end of the novel, that the horde will use any means necessary to defeat the alliance, including forcing children to serve the hordes armies, and to use demons at he commands.

    Honestly, you Garrosh fanboys, do you even know the lore when you take the characters into account, like this thread?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    He was with Garrosh during the Northrend campaign he had him around quite often and he saw how Garrosh behaved, he knew him. That is the main reason I blame Thrall. Garrosh was never meant to be Warchief material, a general of course, but someone always had to reign him in, the same reason Sylvanas can never become warchief you would have the same fiasco.

    Not to mention he was warned not to appoint him, even as acting warchief, but he did not listen and now the world pays the price.
    I know your fishing for a reason to demonize Thrall, but its a pure case of morality when it comes down to it.

    You think Thrall is to blame for choosing Garrosh? He choose him in good faith, he didn't know he would be as bad as he is, or commit the crimes he has done.

    Thrall committed himself to saving azeroth from destruction, something a hero does so you can't demonize him for his actions there.

    Was it a mistake to trust Garrosh as he did? Yes, but he wasn't to know, and by the time it was clear the kind of monster Garrosh was it was to late to change it.


    And Here the moost ironic twist to all this.

    All you whiners who keep making the excuse that you believe Thrall to be perfect, to be without flaws.. and yet this very thread is trying to draw to the fact Thrall had a flaw in trusting Garrosh, meaning he isn't perfect.


    You all have such narrow views of the story from such tiny perspectives you seem unable to see the lore and its characters as they are.
    - You think Garrosh a hero when he acts like a monster.
    - You call Thrall perfect when its shown he isn't perfect.
    - You fail to see the lessons being taught here with this current conflict and blame it on the wrong characters.

    All of you are horrible judges of character.
    #boycottchina

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