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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurix View Post

    Truthfully, the class has issues. Reading your posts, you overall do make good points. I don't think it's beyond saving, I know 5.1 won't make them as viable as they should be, I just don't believe they're utter garbage. Honestly my biggest concern is our biggest strength is Chi Wave and the ability to self-heal often since our defensive pretty much suck. 25% healing reduction on it, we're going to turn into a weird-opposite Rogue roll (no opener, constant pressure but no burst.. bleh). My other main from vanilla -> cata was a Rogue, and I re-rolled because I strongly disagreed with the %Crit removal on Ambush/Backstab, Recup getting gutted, Prep/Step tier, losing deadly throw, shit shiv change, etc.. So either way, I have two gimped melee classes. I know Rogues are probably better still because of their strong openers, but the class is just so... Boring to me now =/
    I do love the class, it is my favorite at the moment, and i'll repeat what i said - they're not garbage, they're garbage in comparison to fotm classes such as warriors and ferals ( they might not be fotm, but that's a matter of time ).
    I do also have a warrior and a DK, and as i stated, monk feels like a gimped version of the DK, while DK feels like a gimped version of warrior, albeit DK hits like a truck, it lacks in defenses and mobility, same goes for monk.
    I hope there will be more changes for monks in 5.1 tho.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Right, if your a multi-gladiator, and you reroll to a spec you already have a very high degree of knowledge about (dakkroth as shaman, reckful as warrior) you can pick it up pretty fast if your putting in the time. Some monks are 2200+. Either this means some good players did reroll monk, did put in the time to learn the class already, and are getting into high ratings now - or monks are overpowered such that people who don't know the class are getting into high ratings now: because some monks are 2200+ and their representation more or less correlates to their population. Obviously since I'm not calling monks overpowered, some good players did reroll monk, put in the time, and are getting 2200+ now.
    I consider myself pretty good, been playing mainly pvp since vanilla to now, rerolled ww lock.
    Was kinda not gonna buy mop but i had a change of heart and made a monk
    Its a really fun class, but it lacks some type of survival / cc avoidance. I just cant see ww monk working in endgame arena atm. 2.2k possibly, but not 2.5k+.
    i think in RBG we can be nice, i tend to be nr. 1-2 in dmg in every bg.
    Possibly a short stealth like priest, and/or possibly the mistweaver talent Dematerialize (cant get hit for 2.5 sec when stunned)... This is kinda op on a ww monk, so it should probably only be able to trigger below 30% or just have a longer cooldown. (Its currently 10 sec cd as mistweaver).
    Also chi wave is utterly useless when casting over longer range. Slowest moving spells ingame -->MONKS<--.
    Heard that SHS is getting reduced to 10 energy wich is just wonderful.
    Id like to see paralyze get a change, possibly permanent range and no positional requirement, currently its just so useless
    when taking into account for server lag. It only works in synergy as a follow up cc for stun - intimidating shout (glyphed), or other "cc's that make target stand still". Its just to random atm.
    Leg sweep should get some increased range aswell.
    Dampen harm is also pretty bad.
    Finally id like to see some other chi generating abilities. Possibly from using Xuen, or some other abilities. Tiger brew maybe. 5 stacks = 1 chi, 10 stacks = 2 chi.

    Finally id like to see fist of fury getting some kinda fix, its useless when hitting pet + target.
    same with Spinning Fire Blossom, when trying to hit a lock / mage / hunter w/e running away with his pet, it always hits the pet.

    Edit. Ow yeah and diffuse magic is useless, it does not work as intended, if i fx use it whilst frost bomb is on me, its transfered to opponent mage. It explodes and my "target hp, says he looses fx. from 100%-65%. But his nameplate hp shows 100% so does gladius. Im guessing that it works like that on all other "dots".
    Not as intended, also vs spriests the dots reflected do no dmg.

    Either way hope the new changes will make us just as desireable as most melee's ingame.
    Last edited by Johnkie; 2012-11-12 at 03:50 PM.

  3. #43
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnkie View Post
    Edit. Ow yeah and diffuse magic is useless, it does not work as intended, if i fx use it whilst frost bomb is on me, its transfered to opponent mage. It explodes and my "target hp, says he looses fx. from 100%-65%. But his nameplate hp shows 100% so does gladius. Im guessing that it works like that on all other "dots".
    Not as intended, also vs spriests the dots reflected do no dmg.

    Either way hope the new changes will make us just as desireable as most melee's ingame.
    That's actually because Spriest dots do very little damage now (weakest of all dot classes by far). To test your claim me and the mistweaver I do 3s with tried it out in a duel since she seems to think Diffuse Magic is amazing. I put dots on her, they tick for around ~4800 damage per tick. She diffused them to me, they tick for around ~4500 per tick, we attribute this gap to Shadowform's 15% damage reduction.

    So that seems to work just fine. What you may be seeing instead is that, Diffuse Magic only reflects damage on use, not for the entire 6 second duration (like deterrence does). Also, while critical ticks spawned Shadowy Apparitions on her, reflected critical ticks didn't spawn Shadowy Appariations on me (or rather, they refused to damage me, presumably because they know who is boss). An appariation only deals about one dot tick worth of damage though, and in my pvp gear I have 10% crit chance.

    Or you just expected Shadow DoTs to be really painful (as they historically were) but in MoP our dots are pretty much useless things we apply to generate procs (they do no damage to the spriest or to you!). Oddly, reflected dots didn't generate any procs (possibly because they're being cast by you, so they are trying to give you the procs but of course you dont have those talents/spells? we werent sure on this).

    Diffuse Magic is great imo, and should be the obvious choice for any team your fighting where the caster(s) are essential to the enemy teams burst. For example, an RMP or RPS or FMP you probably never have to worry about the rogue/feral soloing you down without assistance from the caster -so diffuse magic is pretty much guarenteed to prevent a kill - since it will stop the shatter or spriest burst or the like. It would be better to use it as Dispersion though and mostly ignore the reflection I think, the only things really worth reflecting are things like Combustion or Devouring Plague after it lands (at which point you've already taken our burst but stop our dots and deny our Shadow Word: Deaths). I could see them making it useable while stunned though.

    I agree with most of the other changes your suggesting though, with some caveats - Leg Sweep (aoe stun) is too strong an ability to have a larger range than it does I think. Paralysis shouldn't have a positional requirement and probably should have a 20 yard base range (extendable to 40 yards with Deadly Reach, comparable to Fear and Polymorph). Don't windwalkers have an additional 30% dodge change while stunned or something? Xuen seems quite strong already, but I would like to see some sort of Holy Avenger for monks ability - they have strong potential for global burst, but no real burst cooldown (but then neither do spriests and we do fine).
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  4. #44
    Diffuse magic is great just for the 90% magic damage reduction for me. The debuffs reverting is a plus. Though I have to say I have rarely ever seen anything being reverted, I wonder if it has anything to do with range? In my opinion, though, it should be usable while cc'd and/or be off the GCD. Same thing for Damped Harm of course or it'd be too strong compared to it.

    Windwalkers have 30% chance to dodge while disarmed. Mistweavers have 2.5s of immunity while stunned btw ^.

    Our burst requires some creativity but it exists: 4 Chi, a BcK proc and RSK and Chi Brew off CD and simply go RSK > BcK > BcK > Chi Brew > BcK > BcK... that's pretty burst-y. Not comparable to other classes' cooldowns but it's there.

    I really wish they'd remake the level 90 talents tier into a cooldowns-thing. Its purpose is so confused right now.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Monks are fine.

    No one knows how to play them yet.
    That's an absolutely idiotic statement. During all the time i played WoW i picked every class to play exept mages and hunters (simply becouse i quited game 3 times, every time sold/gave away account to never return, aaaaand i'm back.... every time). With every class i easilly passed 2.2-2.4K becouse after you've learned basics it's easy to adjust to a new class. What's more i saw ppls picking glad on their alts or even two, becouse truth be told if you're playing affli lock it's easy to pick SP to comparable lvl (just swap some pet macroses for team support once).

    So no, it's not about monks being new class with insanely high skillcap that takes many months to learn. If you'll check AJ you'll find R1 players who rerolled monk and they aren't really shining, not becouse they sudenly lost their ability to control keyboard and mouse but becouse class isn't up there with few other classes (in no way i'm claiming that monk is worst class). Thing is that when FOTM class/classes present, the ladder becomes a mix of FOTM setups and setups designed to counter them. In such situation if your class isn't fotm or directly counters it then your chances to get high raitings are slim and you can achieve better result rerolling (becouse it's not hard to pick a new class). Atm i just don't see how WW counters anything - can't zerg as hard as other classes, can't reliably outlast another teams, can't support as good as SP/Retri.

    As many already said WW monks aren't outright bad, they just aren't good enough compared to some other classes.

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