1. #1221
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That I can accept.

    There's no question that the deficits were extremely tiny under Clinton. None whatsoever.

    We should have certainly continued along that path.

    What's completely farcical is the idea that some people have that there was no debt under Clinton and Bush squandered that.
    Right, Bush didn't magically create 14 trillion dollars in debt, it's been there for decades. The economy was just healthy enough and the budget balanced enough and Congress was actually willing to compromise and get things done that we weren't losing money so horribly.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  2. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    What's completely farcical is the idea that some people have that there was no debt under Clinton and Bush squandered that.
    Agreed. It's basically a fairy tale, but is one of those things that's just accepted and stated so readily that many people believe it to be true. I never really enjoy that sort of thing.

  3. #1223
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The phrase people should be using is that there was a primary surplus. That's accurate, and shouldn't mislead anyone that's familiar with the nomenclature.
    But, for those who are not familiar, shouldn't the budget without interest be enouph of an explanation? It was this justification, which ignored the interest on the debt, that was used for the Bush tax cuts.

  4. #1224
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    But, for those who are not familiar, shouldn't the budget without interest be enouph of an explanation? It was this justification, which ignored the interest on the debt, that was used for the Bush tax cuts.
    I don't care, personally, what the justification was for the Bush tax cuts. They were stupid to leave in place as he decided to go to war.

  5. #1225
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I don't care, personally, what the justification was for the Bush tax cuts. They were stupid to leave in place as he decided to go to war.
    This is my feeling as well. Whatever else can be said of Bush's tax policy, I firmly disagree with the idea of conducting a war and allowing the public to not even feel a financial hit from it. War weariness has a positive purpose.

  6. #1226
    In regards to the Papa Johns guy...

    Yeah - that poor soul has to willingly sacrifice his staff for Obamacare....

    ...but the good news is his competitors (who face the same problem) instead of laying off their key staff of expert pizza makers would simply increase the prices of their pizzas by $1. Not only would the extra income take care of any new taxes pressed upon them, but they might have some surplus left over from any leftover residuals to hire the disenfranchised Pappa John's employees who are eager for revenge upon their former employer for being used as a political tool instead of looking at other options.

    ...and don't tell me that NOBODY would still buy their pizzas if they went up by a buck. Brand loyalty goes a long way... just ask any Blizzard fan. :P

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    In regards to the Papa Johns guy...

    Yeah - that poor soul has to willingly sacrifice his staff for Obamacare....

    ...but the good news is his competitors (who face the same problem) instead of laying off their key staff of expert pizza makers would simply increase the prices of their pizzas by $1. Not only would the extra income take care of any new taxes pressed upon them, but they might have some surplus left over from any leftover residuals to hire the disenfranchised Pappa John's employees who are eager for revenge upon their former employer for being used as a political tool instead of looking at other options.

    ...and don't tell me that NOBODY would still buy their pizzas if they went up by a buck. Brand loyalty goes a long way... just ask any Blizzard fan. :P
    But therein lies the problem. If we say that pizza costs $10, $1 would be a 10% increase. If every company feeling the pressure from Obamacare raised their prices 10%, we'd be in even more trouble.

    In a few months, most people won't even remember the lay-offs from Papa Johns. And when it's cheaper to buy pizza from PJs, people will do so.

  8. #1228
    Yea most ppl are still going to buy the pizza which is a better deal in the end. Most rarely stop to consider the political philosophies of the pizza dude before placing an order.

  9. #1229
    Quote Originally Posted by Zigzagzoom View Post
    Yea most ppl are still going to buy the pizza which is a better deal in the end. Most rarely stop to consider the political philosophies of the pizza dude before placing an order.
    Until the quality severely drops due to PJ's dumping their work force... and, as my friend once said, Pappa John's Pizza is already pretty soulless right now.

    There's an old quote I've heard about somebody who got screwed over: "I don't like finding the best price anymore. Getting a deal costs too much in the end!"

  10. #1230
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    In regards to the Papa Johns guy...

    Yeah - that poor soul has to willingly sacrifice his staff for Obamacare....

    ...but the good news is his competitors (who face the same problem) instead of laying off their key staff of expert pizza makers would simply increase the prices of their pizzas by $1. Not only would the extra income take care of any new taxes pressed upon them, but they might have some surplus left over from any leftover residuals to hire the disenfranchised Pappa John's employees who are eager for revenge upon their former employer for being used as a political tool instead of looking at other options.

    ...and don't tell me that NOBODY would still buy their pizzas if they went up by a buck. Brand loyalty goes a long way... just ask any Blizzard fan. :P
    You hit the nail on the head, friend. Good ole' Papa John made his business by selling his death pies to people who want a tasty meal without much thought. This NEVER WAS even claimed a few months ago that in order to offset the cost of Obamacare, he would have to increase the price of his pizzas by 15 cents. That's it. I can't think of any situation where if you want to order a pizza, 15 cents is going to change your mind about making that order.

    Instead of thinking of ways to increase his own personal wealth at the expense of his employees, maybe this greed machine should be thankful he lives in a country where in order to provide his workers with health insurance, all he has to do is raise his pizza prices by 15 cents.

    But no, no, all he wants to do is whine and complain about providing something to his employees that could help them. Only because it may make him slightly less rich.

  11. #1231
    Honestly I'm not much of a pizza eater, I have a family, kids ect. I buy the pizza from whom ever is running a special or I have a coupon for. Kids will eat papa johns with a big smile and dominoes the next week. Pizza politics has no bearing on it.

  12. #1232
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niteynite View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, friend. Good ole' Papa John made his business by selling his death pies to people who want a tasty meal without much thought. This NEVER WAS even claimed a few months ago that in order to offset the cost of Obamacare, he would have to increase the price of his pizzas by 15 cents. That's it. I can't think of any situation where if you want to order a pizza, 15 cents is going to change your mind about making that order.

    Instead of thinking of ways to increase his own personal wealth at the expense of his employees, maybe this greed machine should be thankful he lives in a country where in order to provide his workers with health insurance, all he has to do is raise his pizza prices by 15 cents.

    But no, no, all he wants to do is whine and complain about providing something to his employees that could help them. Only because it may make him slightly less rich.
    Yep, really the issue is all in the presentation and his selfish attitude.

    If he came out and said "look guys, Obamacare is expensive, so I need to raise prices by $1 to take care of my employees." people would probably LOVE him, buy more of his pizza to support his "caring" attitude and think he was just plain awesome.

    But no, he decided to look like a selfish twat, so it's going to cost him instead.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  13. #1233
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Oh look, companies are just looking for excuses to fire people so that the people who "run the company" don't have to give up their summer homes, year vacations around the world and absurd profit margins.

    I'm not shocked. As long as the current economical system is in place in America, nothing will ever change. A system built upon greed can do nothing but harm the human race in the long run.
    "Do not only practice your art, but force yourself into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine." -- Ludwig Van Beethoven

  14. #1234
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    Huh, I find it amusing that American CEO's are complaining about all these things like layoffs and tough times. I work for a corporation, a Canadian based corporation mind you, but last time I checked, we are still hiring, whether it be at our plants here in Canada, those in America and even those in Mexico and we generally don't lay people off unless our customers are closing down projects and starting up new one's. Obamacare didn't impact how our company operates in America, but then again so many people have maintained their jobs for such a long time with the company because we don't pay top end rates like private companies would do, but we have benefits and pension as well. Poor American's have to deal with such shitty CEO's, I work for Linamar and at least our upper management tries to give somewhat of a shit about the workers. We are all pretty decently well off financially in terms of pay rate even if we aren't making the best money, and our jobs are secure and stable. It's too bad American corporation executives care about lining their coffers more then they do about the people who are making them the money in the first place, nor do they appreciate where they are and what got them to the positions they are in. Their greed is astounding and they deserve to have their asses kicked for their disrespect.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2012-11-18 at 04:52 AM.

  15. #1235
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You respect Sweden's neutrality more than Switzerland's during WW2?

    Switzerland's involvement was confined to purchasing gold from the German government. I'm not sure there was even any awareness where that gold came from apart from plunder in foreign central banks.

    SWEDEN decided to allow Germany to use their land and railways to transport troops and materiel from Norway to Finland. They exported huge quantities of raw material to Germany.

    They provided assistance to the Allies too.

    Is playing both sides considered "neutral" nowadays?
    Switzerland allowed Nazis to use their railroads and airspace too...

    Sweden actually protected her borders. They shot down a few hundred Nazi planes. They also didn't buy tons of gold from a nation that suddenly had large quantities of it after millions of their citizens disappeared. They also actively saved Jews.

    Sweden >> Switzerland.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Switzerland allowed Nazis to use their railroads and airspace too...

    Sweden actually protected her borders. They shot down a few hundred Nazi planes. They also didn't buy tons of gold from a nation that suddenly had large quantities of it after millions of their citizens disappeared. They also actively saved Jews.

    Sweden >> Switzerland.
    If you think Sweden was actively neutral in WW2 that's clearly your belief and I won't challenge it any longer (Despite my vehement disagreement). But to say that Switzerland was founded on purchasing Jewish gold is FACTUALLY wrong.

  17. #1237
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    If you think Sweden was actively neutral in WW2 that's clearly your belief and I won't challenge it any longer (Despite my vehement disagreement). But to say that Switzerland was founded on purchasing Jewish gold is FACTUALLY wrong.
    Switzerland was founded on Jewish gold whattttttt?

    Sweden was neutral. They traded with both sides and allowed both sides limited access, while denying both sides limited rules. That defines neutral. They favoured neither side.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  18. #1238
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Acting the same to either side is the definition of neutral, isn't it?

  19. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Switzerland was founded on Jewish gold whattttttt?

    Sweden was neutral. They traded with both sides and allowed both sides limited access, while denying both sides limited rules. That defines neutral. They favoured neither side.
    The same could be said of Switzerland. Also in case you don't remember where you said Switzerland was founded on Jewish gold...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    And building a nation on stolen Jewish gold, yummmm

  20. #1240
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The same could be said of Switzerland. Also in case you don't remember where you said Switzerland was founded on Jewish gold...
    Yes, sarcastically, obviously? I guess it doesn't translate well to text.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

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