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  1. #741
    I can't speak for all states, but I lived the exact scenario you laid out (Cancer and near minimum wage with no insurance) when I was 22. I am neither bankrupt nor poor.
    Personal anecdotes don't change the leading cause of bankruptcy nor do they fill the holes in our social safety net.

    I think you linked the wrong page.

  2. #742
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No one (except payday loan originators) have an INCENTIVE to keep poor people poor.
    And even they only want people to experience short term financing problems.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Personal anecdotes don't change the leading cause of bankruptcy nor do they fill the holes in our social safety net.

    I think you linked the wrong page.
    I never said medical bills weren't the leading cause of bankruptcy.

    I said there was no good reason they're the leading cause.

    If you're poor and your life is in jeopardy, you're covered. If you're not poor and you didn't buy insurance, you made a bad decision.

    The only scenario in which this does not apply is if you're poor and do not have a life threatening condition, in which case if it prevents you from working you're covered by SSI and Medicare.

    You're right, I did link the wrong page. Here's the correct one.

  4. #744
    I said there was no good reason they're the leading cause.
    I agree. Our health care system costs far too much.
    If you're poor and your life is in jeopardy, you're covered.
    If you show up at a emergency room they're stabilize you. That doesn't mean they give you the treatment you need.
    If you're not poor and you didn't buy insurance, you made a bad decision.
    Or you were one of many who was not poor and couldn't afford insurance still.

    Can you fix your link from the last post please?

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Despicable human being if you ask me.

    Plus, he lied about how much he needed to increase Pizza prices to offset the costs with health insurance (Forbes did an article about it).

    Laying off people and reducing hours to save FIVE cents per pizza? Seriously, wouldn't it have been much more just to the employees to just keep them as they were, get the health insurance and raise pizza prices by said 5 cents? It would even be a good PR move, imo. Who would mind paying a nickel more if you know it'd help all those employees keep their jobs and insurance?
    I would gladly (and probably unknowingly) pay 5 cents more for a pizza. Just not his pizza. I dont even think its worth 5 cents in the first place. Anyway, f this guy and his company. Ill go get my pizza somewhere else. The only reason at this point to buy his pizza is to show support for the employees, but since he gets money from that too I am conflicted.

  6. #746
    I am not sure why liberals are so upset about this... this was promised long ago.
    Free-To-Play is the future.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Why doesn't the CEO just take a smaller piece of the pie, which still ends up being an incredibly huge piece of pie. Wouldn't that be a smart business decision?
    In the long run yes, but sadly the business world does not work that way it is all about instant gratification and maximizing profits now, especially once a company gets involved with the stock market because you end up with thousands of extra hands digging into the pie most of which are receiving a very small portion and wanting more.

  8. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    I am not sure why liberals are so upset about this... this was promised long ago.
    I wouldn't say "upset" is an accurate term so much as feeling sorry for PJ employees which are exploited for their labor just like every other corporation chain. That and laughing at the temper tantrum he's throwing over Obama being reelected. The price raise has nothing to do with Obama being reelected, but Papa John is throwing a temper tantrum and using it as a scapegoat.
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  9. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Local is the way to go. I live outside New Haven and we have the best pizza in the country (/deathstare nyc).

    I would gladly pay 20 cents extra per pizza knowing that each employee has health insurance. They could raise prices and people wouldn't even know.
    Being born and raised in CT, and now being stationed in NY due to being in the Navy I can agree with this completely from my experiences.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Switzerland has almost the same system, and no one considers it broken.

    Quit bitching about what you didn't get and be happy for what you did.

    Rightwingers consider it broken. And no i am not going to stop until we have true public healthcare just not gonna happen it is called standing up for what is the right thing to do

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:12 AM ----------


    We have less upward mobility than you have in socialist countries, THAT should tell you how broken the economic system of trickle down is Denmark have far higher rate of upwards mobility than USA

  11. #751
    I think the perfect compromise on healthcare is the government gets out of the healthcare system except for realistic regulations that help both the insurers and insured.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    You do realize that the wealth that is still underground has almost no monetary value?
    This is why I called it "potential wealth" think of it like potential energy. It has monetary value, just nobody has it yet.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I agree. Our health care system costs far too much.
    The root cause of which will have likely been addressed in the next 4 years.

    If you show up at a emergency room they're stabilize you. That doesn't mean they give you the treatment you need.
    If you go to a hospital and you have cancer, they have charity care and state programs that will get you the treatment you need.

    Or you were one of many who was not poor and couldn't afford insurance still.
    If you're not poor you can afford insurance. The average premium is barely north of $400. The only places this fails to be true is in states where health insurers are required, by law, to extend insurance to everyone.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Rightwingers consider it broken. And no i am not going to stop until we have true public healthcare just not gonna happen it is called standing up for what is the right thing to do
    ACA is the way it is because of a compromise with the right wing. I'm not sure what's broken about it.

    We have less upward mobility than you have in socialist countries, THAT should tell you how broken the economic system of trickle down is Denmark have far higher rate of upwards mobility than USA
    Ask me how much I care about Denmark or Sweden. Go on. Ask me. If you want to live in Denmark, go live in Denmark. If you want to live in the USA, stay in the USA and work toward your goals (political or otherwise). Don't live in the USA and complain we're not like Denmark.
    Last edited by Laize; 2012-11-16 at 01:21 AM.

  14. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    If you're not poor you can afford insurance. The average premium is barely north of $400. The only places this fails to be true is in states where health insurers are required, by law, to extend insurance to everyone.
    I think you're ignoring a pretty significant demographic in the US, the working poor. There's a large population resting between the point where they gain benefits due to low income and being wealthy enough to maintain healthy living conditions. This is, in fact, an influential factor in hindering social mobility for many in the US, especially in cities. If you get to the point where if you advance a bit, you lose your government benefits and that 50 cent increase in wages causes drastic losses in your benefits, than its exceedingly difficult to progress from there.

  15. #755
    If you go to a hospital and you have cancer, they have charity care and state programs that will get you the treatment you need.
    Which is why no one goes without care in the US!

    Oh wait.
    If you're not poor you can afford insurance. The average premium is barely north of $400. The only places this fails to be true is in states where health insurers are required, by law, to extend insurance to everyone.
    yes because that's realistic and doable. And that's the average. God help you if its higher.
    Ask me how much I care about Denmark or Sweden. Go on. Ask me. If you want to live in Denmark, go live in Denmark. If you want to live in the USA, stay in the USA and work toward your goals. Don't live in the USA and complain we're not like Denmark.
    What if our goal is to be more like Denmark?

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    I think you're ignoring a pretty significant demographic in the US, the working poor. There's a large population resting between the point where they gain benefits due to low income and being wealthy enough to maintain healthy living conditions. This is, in fact, an influential factor in hindering social mobility for many in the US, especially in cities. If you get to the point where if you advance a bit, you lose your government benefits and that 50 cent increase in wages causes drastic losses in your benefits, than its exceedingly difficult to progress from there.
    That gap area is what we call a welfare trap.

  17. #757
    Honestly, a lot of this discussion is moot. Until we figure out how we're going to create jobs that automation has replaced, we're screwed. Technology is just going to become more prevalent while unskilled human labor is going to disappear.

    We recently installed a machine at work that can do in 15 minutes what it took a human 6 hours to do. How many jobs do you think that one machine has replaced?

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Of course they pass prices on to the consumer.

    If there's anyone who doesn't realize this, they need a serious reality check. This is why I oppose the corporate income tax. It does nothing but increase prices for the consumer.
    With the abysmal low level of taxes they pay it doesnt increase anything, a truckload of companies pay the CEO more in wages and bonus than they pay in taxes. So why do we have to pay the cost increases of those outrageous salaries to the top brass? I mean they pass that cost along just as the taxes they dont pay.

    lots of business pays more in lobbying in washington than they pay in taxes, why do i have to pick up the tab on that???

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    What if our goal is to be more like Denmark?
    Then keep it at your state level so those of us who despise the idea of being like Scandinavia don't have to fight so vociferously against it on a national level.

    I have no desire to fund a national single-payer service with a 45% tax rate. No desire to raise taxes on certain foods just because some government body tells us it's unhealthy and places an additional burden on said national health care system.

    Everything good that comes with nationalized services comes with SOMETHING bad. Whether that bad thing bothers you or even AFFECTS you is a matter of question.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    With the abysmal low level of taxes they pay it doesnt increase anything, a truckload of companies pay the CEO more in wages and bonus than they pay in taxes. So why do we have to pay the cost increases of those outrageous salaries to the top brass? I mean they pass that cost along just as the taxes they dont pay.

    lots of business pays more in lobbying in washington than they pay in taxes, why do i have to pick up the tab on that???
    You don't. Just don't buy said company's product and bam. You're no longer picking up their tab.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelas View Post
    Honestly, a lot of this discussion is moot. Until we figure out how we're going to create jobs that automation has replaced, we're screwed. Technology is just going to become more prevalent while unskilled human labor is going to disappear.

    We recently installed a machine at work that can do in 15 minutes what it took a human 6 hours to do. How many jobs do you think that one machine has replaced?
    Hopefully a shitload.

    Was it a CNC machine? I love those things.

    Seriously, don't be a Luddite. Just because you get put out of work by a machine doesn't mean you're doomed to unemployment. Why not go into training and learn how to run that machine?

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The root cause of which will have likely been addressed in the next 4 years.



    If you go to a hospital and you have cancer, they have charity care and state programs that will get you the treatment you need.



    If you're not poor you can afford insurance. The average premium is barely north of $400. The only places this fails to be true is in states where health insurers are required, by law, to extend insurance to everyone.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:21 AM ----------



    ACA is the way it is because of a compromise with the right wing. I'm not sure what's broken about it.



    Ask me how much I care about Denmark or Sweden. Go on. Ask me. If you want to live in Denmark, go live in Denmark. If you want to live in the USA, stay in the USA and work toward your goals (political or otherwise). Don't live in the USA and complain we're not like Denmark.

    You obvious get very upset when your dream of ultra capitalism and AYN RAND world is worse for everyone when it comes to upwards mobility and being able to work your butt of to become rich. Really isnt something wrong with the system when your utopia of may the strongest survive and screw the rest have LESS notice LESS as is fewer being able to work there asses of to become rich.

    We call this a RIGGED game when it works like this. explain why it is good to have less upwards mobility than in Denmark. and dont go of on some right wing rant about move to fking denmark. Really just explain why less upwards mobility than in socialists countries are a good thing just explain it and dont go on a right wing rant about it. Obviously it hit a sore spot, facts can do that sometimes

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