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  1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Oh boy, strawman time. But I suppose rewording the argument to attempt to attack others far supersedes maintaining an objective view of reality.
    Tell me where I'm wrong.

    It seems pretty fucking accurate to me.

  2. #842
    I'd also like to add some food for thought...

    We have millionaire celebrities, that tell us who we should vote for, lambaste the opposition, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire musicians, that sing about how fucked up one side is over the other, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire athletes, who we call role models, talk all day about, root for their teams, yet they provide nothing to society.

    In fact we look up to all these people and damn near deify them in their own right. We want to look like them, dress like them, throw a ball like them, yet they really do not contribute to society.

    Yet here we have people...who give people jobs....JOBS...and you are going to speak of them like they are the worst people in the world.

  3. #843
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    I'd also like to add some food for thought...

    We have millionaire celebrities, that tell us who we should vote for, lambaste the opposition, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire musicians, that sing about how fucked up one side is over the other, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire athletes, who we call role models, talk all day about, root for their teams, yet they provide nothing to society.

    In fact we look up to all these people and damn near deify them in their own right. We want to look like them, dress like them, throw a ball like them, yet they really do not contribute to society.

    Yet here we have people...who give people jobs....JOBS...and you are going to speak of them like they are the worst people in the world.
    so in your eyes, A guy selling pizza is more valuable to society than Universal healthcare? cmon man, if you arent trolling you should be ashamed
    Last edited by mmoc653be429b6; 2012-11-16 at 07:45 PM.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    Tell me where I'm wrong.

    It seems pretty fucking accurate to me.
    Yes, because attacking a strawman is really damn productive.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yes, because attacking a strawman is really damn productive.
    Again, tell me where I'm wrong. I welcome it.

    Don't be a talking parrot.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    I'd also like to add some food for thought...

    We have millionaire celebrities, that tell us who we should vote for, lambaste the opposition, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire musicians, that sing about how fucked up one side is over the other, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire athletes, who we call role models, talk all day about, root for their teams, yet they provide nothing to society.

    In fact we look up to all these people and damn near deify them in their own right. We want to look like them, dress like them, throw a ball like them, yet they really do not contribute to society.
    Then stop watching movies, listening to music, and watching sports. No one is forcing you to throw money at them...

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    Tell me where I'm wrong.

    It seems pretty fucking accurate to me.
    Misconstruing the purpose of obamacare as well as the economic reasons behind it (when the numbers work out, the cost isn't nearly as high as the GOP cries about since it saves money in a number of areas), as well as the reasons behind it
    I could be wrong, but while parts of Obamacare have been implemented, it has not been put in in its entirety yet.
    Businesses always have to adjust costs. Its just how things work, and ultimately if a business cannot adapt to a new business setting it will die out. Papa Johns drastically overreacted and made a public spectacle hyperbolizing the cost to his company, especially given that his competition would be facing increased costs as well. It was, therefore, not a rational adaptation but a serious blunder that has already begun to hurt his company.
    No one is saying that when met with increased costs measures must be taken into account to balance the new costs out. The objection is that the costs are being passed entirely onto the workers when the cost is not as high as the CEO estimated, and there is a massive surplus for upper management that doesn't justify passing it onto the workers even if he were not to raise the price of his pizzas by a minute amount.

    Its funny how things change when you actually apply logic and reason to a situation rather than looking at it in terms of black or white.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Misconstruing the purpose of obamacare as well as the economic reasons behind it (when the numbers work out, the cost isn't nearly as high as the GOP cries about since it saves money in a number of areas), as well as the reasons behind it
    I could be wrong, but while parts of Obamacare have been implemented, it has not been put in in its entirety yet.
    Businesses always have to adjust costs. Its just how things work, and ultimately if a business cannot adapt to a new business setting it will die out. Papa Johns drastically overreacted and made a public spectacle hyperbolizing the cost to his company, especially given that his competition would be facing increased costs as well. It was, therefore, not a rational adaptation but a serious blunder that has already begun to hurt his company.
    No one is saying that when met with increased costs measures must be taken into account to balance the new costs out. The objection is that the costs are being passed entirely onto the workers when the cost is not as high as the CEO estimated, and there is a massive surplus for upper management that doesn't justify passing it onto the workers even if he were not to raise the price of his pizzas by a minute amount.

    Its funny how things change when you actually apply logic and reason to a situation rather than looking at it in terms of black or white.
    So should the cost be entirely passed onto the pizzas? It sounded like Papa Johns was doing a split between the pizzas and the workers.

    If it was entirely passed onto the business, the price increase would be much larger. Surely lowering demand.

    And that isn't what anyone wants.

    Or are you suggesting the company should just eat the profit loss?
    Last edited by Riidii; 2012-11-16 at 08:00 PM.

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    So should the cost be entirely passed onto the pizzas? It sounded like Papa Johns was doing a split between the pizzas and the workers.

    If it was entirely passed onto the business, the price increase would be much larger. Surely lowering demand.

    And that isn't what anyone wants.
    Show me one person who would change the amount of pizza he would eat, because of a 10 cents increase. In return I will show you a person who should not be eating out.


  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    So should the cost be entirely passed onto the pizzas? It sounded like Papa Johns was doing a split between the pizzas and the workers.

    If it was entirely passed onto the business, the price increase would be much larger. Surely lowering demand.

    And that isn't what anyone wants.
    His declaration was that he would have no choice but to pass it on to the work force, because the cost to the business would be a 14 cent increase to pizzas, although other sources put the increase to be much lower.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    His declaration was that he would have no choice but to pass it on to the work force, because the cost to the business would be a 14 cent increase to pizzas, although other sources put the increase to be much lower.
    Was like 4 cents iirc.

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Congelatore View Post
    Considering that Romney was going to effectively undo and get rid of everything Obama put in place--Obama-care, letting the Bush tax-cuts expire this time around, never before scene spending levels, etc.--which led to higher unemployment, then yes, there is a causal connection.

    Low- to middle-income people are in for a very, very rude awakening in the next 4 years because of this election.
    Things weren't looking good for either candidate. And, honestly, I'm not sure I would want a single party that held the Presidency and and most of Congress.

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    This is getting stupid. Like really. Why punish employees for what Congress does?

    Fuck Denny's your food sucked anyways.
    I really hate to say this, but you didn't REALLY expect business owners to shoulder the entire cost of the new healthcare legislation, did you?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  14. #854
    This is something you will see across the board due to obamacare, nearly every nonmanagement fulltime hourly position is going to be eliminated soon.

    This is due to the requirement that no more than 20% of a paycheck can be healthcare costs, but to meet the bare minimum on required by obamacare that business have to provide, am hourly employee making around 8-9 dollars an hour would have to work 48-50+ hours to meet the minimum payment.

    I'm upper management at a gas station/convience store chain of about 60 stores, we had to basically elimate all our full time cashier positions, we haven't hired anyone for a nonmanagement position in over a year because our business that has been around over 50 years would be bankrupt in months if we didn't. Many small businesses don't make enough to handle paying our employees the wages required to pay for obamacare

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morogoth View Post
    The sad thing is if we boycott the restaurant, the owner will still have his millions and a lot of poor people will lose their job...FML

    edit: we should march on his manor, 100k people marching and burning everything on their path! That would make a beautiful movie.

    p.s. hello NSA
    Thats the spirit, commit crimes, at least when you get arrested you'll have free room and board....

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  16. #856
    oh yea right blame obama. try blaming the ceo's themselves along with all the other rich greedy vp's, politicians and whatnot who live in million dollar homes and drive 200k cars for screwing up the economy. ur shady crooked ways screw over the tax payers. without the workin man this country crashes. too bad these selfish richies cant figure that out. make sure the middle class has what they need 1st then worry about ur toys.

  17. #857
    So how do we solve all this? The employees already work full time and still can't afford health insurance. So what should they do? Should they go to the emergency room and let the tax payers foot the bill? Or should they just simply die?

  18. #858
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Seran do you ever respond to people who ask you questions or do you just post random responses to posts from 10 pages ago?
    I've been busy with other things... so I"m playing catch up... and yes, I do respond to folks that ask me questions... just like I responded to yours.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 02:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    A bit late there Seran.
    As explained above, I'm playing catch up... love your new avatar... I have about a foot of global warming on my drive, wanna come take care of it for me?

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  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Bling View Post
    This is something you will see across the board due to obamacare, nearly every nonmanagement fulltime hourly position is going to be eliminated soon.

    This is due to the requirement that no more than 20% of a paycheck can be healthcare costs, but to meet the bare minimum on required by obamacare that business have to provide, am hourly employee making around 8-9 dollars an hour would have to work 48-50+ hours to meet the minimum payment.

    I'm upper management at a gas station/convience store chain of about 60 stores, we had to basically elimate all our full time cashier positions, we haven't hired anyone for a nonmanagement position in over a year because our business that has been around over 50 years would be bankrupt in months if we didn't. Many small businesses don't make enough to handle paying our employees the wages required to pay for obamacare
    Thanks for that perspective.

  20. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The flyaway cost is only 154M for the cheapest variant. Every other (and more commonly used) variants are over 200M.
    even so... they certainly do NOT cost 20B each as claimed by who I was responding to.

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