Do You Support Legalization of Marijuana? If so, what regulations are suggested?

[Deleted]

I know the thread is rather long but you will find many many sources to the pro side of this debate throughout the thread if you look for them. We aren't picking on them without supplying sources. They demonize us, and call us lazy, unmotivated, and all other manner of things that are thought to be the stereotypical characteristics of a stoner, without having tried weed, or any idea how we actually live our lives. All they know is that the government, and probably their parents, says it's bad, so it must be, when the reality is that they are simply uneducated on the matter. Most people, once they do their own research will find that it is rather baffling why it hasn't been legalized yet. Even if you aren't a fan of getting high, the amount of good it could do for the economy and and crime rates is incredible.

I very, very highly doubt it'll do anything against your crime rates as most crimes do not involve drugs. Oh, you mean people selling marijuana ? Yeah, that'll still happen because it will be cheaper than in a store because there's no taxation on it. People that sell it here in The Netherlands sell it directly to the stores most of the time simply because there is no tax on drugs of any kind. Making it legal is harder than one might think and i'm sure the United States will find that out quickly.

[Seegtease]

"Today a man gunned down his two daughters and wife after allegedly being high on marijuana". See the headlines ? Besides, they're uptight about pretty much anything. How will drug testing go in police departments now that it's being legalized ? There's no drug tests here in The Netherlands on police officers that i know of as it's not illegal to take drugs.

There's so many variables there it's not even funny. Could that crime have happened in any other country? Could that man have done it anyway with alcohol (which is WAY more prone to make you violent than marijuana)? Was he really on it, or just "allegedly"? Did the man obtain the marijuana illegally (meaning being legal would change nothing)?

People will still have drug tests because 1) They can still not hire people who use marijuana if they choose not to and 2) the screening covers more drugs than just marijuana.

Do you really think it's okay for our police officers to be on ecstasy or heroin?

[Roose]

I very, very highly doubt it'll do anything against your crime rates as most crimes do not involve drugs. Oh, you mean people selling marijuana ? Yeah, that'll still happen because it will be cheaper than in a store because there's no taxation on it. People that sell it here in The Netherlands sell it directly to the stores most of the time simply because there is no tax on drugs of any kind. Making it legal is harder than one might think and i'm sure the United States will find that out quickly.

True. Most crimes do not involve drugs. However, about 25% of the US state and federal prison population is in for drug related offenses. You make drugs illegal and you create criminals.

We have pretty damned high taxes on alcohol. I do not know a single source of illegal alcohol. I do not know a single person that makes their own alcohol. You are hard pressed to even find arrest stories about illegal alcohol sales. Making alcohol is so easy that people have been doing that shit for thousands of years. My guess is that people prefer to buy the regulated product. I know that I do.

[Deleted]

There's so many variables there it's not even funny. Could that crime have happened in any other country? Could that man have done it anyway with alcohol (which is WAY more prone to make you violent than marijuana)? Was he really on it, or just "allegedly"? Did the man obtain the marijuana illegally (meaning being legal would change nothing)?

People will still have drug tests because 1) They can still not hire people who use marijuana if they choose not to and 2) the screening covers more drugs than just marijuana.

Do you really think it's okay for our police officers to be on ecstasy or heroin?

That's like saying "Well that kid shot somebody in school, should we ban firearms ? Could he have done the same with a knife ?".

So the police departments in legalized states wish not to hire those that do something legal ? Sounds fair. Both heroin and ecstacy are completely different and have totaly different effects. I don't know any police officers that do either one of them, but ecstacy only lasts a very short while and isn't addictive.

[artemishunter1]

True. Most crimes do not involve drugs. However, about 25% of the US state and federal prison population is in for drug related offenses. You make drugs illegal and you create criminals.

We have pretty damned high taxes on alcohol. I do not know a single source of illegal alcohol. I do not know a single person that makes their own alcohol. You are hard pressed to even find arrest stories about illegal alcohol sales. Making alcohol is so easy that people have been doing that shit for thousands of years. My guess is that people prefer to buy the regulated product. I know that I do.

Growing Marijuana is far easier than making Alcohol. The reason people do not make Alcohol anymore because people are lazy, especially americans of this generation. Its too tedious to make. Making drugs illigal does not make criminals. Criminals are made when people Choose to violate the law. Drugs are not necessity. People chose to consume them, no one forces them to, there are no biological reasons to want to consume drug.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 09:43 PM ----------

That's like saying "Well that kid shot somebody in school, should we ban firearms ? Could he have done the same with a knife ?".

So the police departments in legalized states wish not to hire those that do something legal ? Sounds fair. Both heroin and ecstacy are completely different and have totaly different effects. I don't know any police officers that do either one of them, but ecstacy only lasts a very short while and isn't addictive.

Police officers are always on duty, even when they are not. You do not want police officers to be high, when they are called when theres a crime in their neighborhood. You are a police officer 24/7.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 09:47 PM ----------

I know the thread is rather long but you will find many many sources to the pro side of this debate throughout the thread if you look for them. We aren't picking on them without supplying sources. They demonize us, and call us lazy, unmotivated, and all other manner of things that are thought to be the stereotypical characteristics of a stoner, without having tried weed, or any idea how we actually live our lives. All they know is that the government, and probably their parents, says it's bad, so it must be, when the reality is that they are simply uneducated on the matter. Most people, once they do their own research will find that it is rather baffling why it hasn't been legalized yet. Even if you aren't a fan of getting high, the amount of good it could do for the economy and and crime rates is incredible.

Bullshit. Crime rate will not go down, economy will not benefit at all. Since, people will grow it themselves. And people will always avoid taxes. There is too much propaganda by both sides of the argument to make an informed choice.

[Shadowmelded]

Growing Marijuana is far easier than making Alcohol. The reason people do not make Alcohol anymore because people are lazy, especially americans of this generation. Its too tedious to make. Making drugs illigal does not make criminals. Criminals are made when people Choose to violate the law. Drugs are not necessity. People chose to consume them, no one forces them to, there are no biological reasons to want to consume drug.

It may be easier than making Alcohol and doesn't have the potential to blind you, but it is in no way easy or safe. The amount of pesticides that have to be used when growing indoors can be pretty harmful to people. It's like saying 'Hey, climbing Mt Kilimanjaro is easier than climbing Everest'

Also @ the bolded, so you're one of the 'Marijuana has no medicinal benefits' crowd eh? Not to mention that even without the diseases it helps alleviate, it also alleviates stress. Stress is still a big deal and people still die from stress related illnesses.

Bullshit. Crime rate will not go down, economy will not benefit at all. Since, people will grow it themselves. And people will always avoid taxes. There is too much propaganda by both sides of the argument to make an informed choice.

The economy is already benefiting from marijuana dispensaries. Also people much smarter than us have done research into the effects it will have on the economy and they all play out positively.

As to the 'people will grow it themselves' there's a limit to the number of plants you can grow, I think it's 6, any more than that and you're operating an illegal grow op (Growing large quantities without a license will still remain illegal) and if you're caught you will face penalties.

[Chaochamp]

I very, very highly doubt it'll do anything against your crime rates as most crimes do not involve drugs. Oh, you mean people selling marijuana ? Yeah, that'll still happen because it will be cheaper than in a store because there's no taxation on it. People that sell it here in The Netherlands sell it directly to the stores most of the time simply because there is no tax on drugs of any kind. Making it legal is harder than one might think and i'm sure the United States will find that out quickly.

What possibly makes your think black market prices will even begin to compete with an industrialized legal growing operation?

Also, both Washington State and Colorado State have legalized personal use (technically it becomes law on the 5th of December), up to one ounce.

As to the 'people will grow it themselves' there's a limit to the number of plants you can grow, I think it's 6, any more than that and you're operating an illegal grow op (Growing large quantities without a license will still remain illegal) and if you're caught you will face penalties.

That's the case for Colorado, however, the Washington law prohibits any personal growing, unless you are a certified medical patient.

[Seegtease]

That's like saying "Well that kid shot somebody in school, should we ban firearms ? Could he have done the same with a knife ?".

No, it's nothing like that, really.

So the police departments in legalized states wish not to hire those that do something legal ? Sounds fair. Both heroin and ecstacy are completely different and have totaly different effects. I don't know any police officers that do either one of them, but ecstacy only lasts a very short while and isn't addictive.

It is fair. It seems you don't hold high standards for your officers of the law where you live, but in the US, we actually want them to be sober and rational when on duty. Which, incidentally, can be any time. If you have a problem with alcohol, they can order you to go to AA meetings.

So, again, do you think it's okay for officers to be heroin addicts? Because drug tests pick up that, as well. I find it very disturbing that you don't have drug tests there. How much time have you lived in the US, anyway, to know so much about it?

[Deleted]

Nothing is good if not taken in moderate amounts, weed harms your body and whoever says otherwise has no clue on the mater. The heart and brain takes a toll every time you get high, its just a bunch of propaganda that it has medical uses and that it's not harmful. I can say this with 100% certainty since I've been smoking weed for 9 years now, I've had several heart attacks, can't keep the same line of thought for very long, and am incapable of going through with a plan. These are all qualities I had before smoking weed. Not to mention how depressed you can get by it, of course since its organic it affects people differently but I am convinced that many people are ignorant to the harmful effects of cannabis because it's such a slow killer that people don't realize before they've messed up their life in some other way. The issue is that wherever there are people who can handle it responsibly, there will be people who won't and will hurt others in some way.

With that said, cigarettes and alcohol is worse and has permanent effects while you can recover from weed if you stop before its too late. In a perfect world none of these poisons would be legal nor would anyone want to numb their minds with it, but personal gain/greed triumphs the good of everyone, so I say what the hell make it legal and let people make their own decision on the matter.

[Giants41]

21+ in my opinion. I would never EVER smoke it (or anything) but with alcohol and tobacco being illegal i can't see why Marijuana is. I'm against it personally but i don't think i can be illegal considering what is legal.

[Libram]

As long as it's done at home and not public, then I don't care if it's legalized or not. I just don't want to smell it.

[Terridon]

For medical use.
Otherwise it should be for people from 21 or up, if they really want to smoke it.
Recent studies shows a pretty clear impact on the iq of people smoking it from early age. They're guessing that the brain isn't fully developed at that point, and the weed limits it :P

[artemishunter1]

The economy is already benefiting from marijuana dispensaries. Also people much smarter than us have done research into the effects it will have on the economy and they all play out positively.

As to the 'people will grow it themselves' there's a limit to the number of plants you can grow, I think it's 6, any more than that and you're operating an illegal grow op (Growing large quantities without a license will still remain illegal) and if you're caught you will face penalties.[/QUOTE]

Dispensaries make money because Marijuna is illigal elsewhere. Now if it becomes legal, people will grow themselves. There won't be tax money gained from it.

[connor778]

Medical use only. It's illegal for a reason. Those who can't see or understand why it's illegal are probably still in their teenage years wanting to experiment with what's out there.

I'm 23 and I see no point in smoking it.

I dont like mushrooms on my pizza, does that mushrooms shouldn't be allowed on pizzas? You dont have to smoke it to know that is IS in fact illegal for a reason, and the US would benefit tremendously if it was regulated like alcohol.

Take a minute and forget everything you have ever heard about marijuana, good or bad. Now, What if I told you it was EXACTLY like alcohol, but with no long term effects to your health, no risk of death (assuming you smoke in a safe environment.), doesnt cause cancer like Legal tobacco, and doesnt cause aggression while under the influence like alcohol. Why should it be illegal if it is no worse than two of the most used legal substances out there?

The "point" in smoking marijuana is the same as drinking alcohol. its fun, makes you feel good, turns a good time into a better time. Marijuana is simply "something to do when theres nothing to do, that makes nothing to something to do." instead of watching TV after work, or watching a movie, why not smoke a bowl, relax, and do whatever.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 11:56 PM ----------

Nothing is good if not taken in moderate amounts, weed harms your body and whoever says otherwise has no clue on the mater. The heart and brain takes a toll every time you get high, its just a bunch of propaganda that it has medical uses and that it's not harmful. I can say this with 100% certainty since I've been smoking weed for 9 years now, I've had several heart attacks, can't keep the same line of thought for very long, and am incapable of going through with a plan. These are all qualities I had before smoking weed. Not to mention how depressed you can get by it, of course since its organic it affects people differently but I am convinced that many people are ignorant to the harmful effects of cannabis because it's such a slow killer that people don't realize before they've messed up their life in some other way. The issue is that wherever there are people who can handle it responsibly, there will be people who won't and will hurt others in some way.

With that said, cigarettes and alcohol is worse and has permanent effects while you can recover from weed if you stop before its too late. In a perfect world none of these poisons would be legal nor would anyone want to numb their minds with it, but personal gain/greed triumphs the good of everyone, so I say what the hell make it legal and let people make their own decision on the matter.

Well, there are others who have been smoking ALOT longer than you, and I can guarantee they smoke more than you did in those 9 years in half the time. And they dont have the problems you listed. Not saying pot is 100% safe, im just saying you cant blame it all on pot, there are millions of other things that couls attribute to those problems, especially the heart problems.

[Chaochamp]

Police officers are always on duty, even when they are not. You do not want police officers to be high, when they are called when theres a crime in their neighborhood. You are a police officer 24/7.

What is this I don't even.

Police officers are perfectly allowed to consume alcoholic drinks anytime off duty.

[mistuhbull]

What is this I don't even.

Police officers are perfectly allowed to consume alcoholic drinks anytime off duty.

Yeah, but if weed was legal they would be stoned 24/7...

[Jackielope]

Yeah, but if weed was legal they would be stoned 24/7...

You don't give them, or people in general, enough credit for taking responsibility. Sure there would be some that get stoned on their own time but while on duty? Law enforcement does have standards even if the media would have you think otherwise by only regularly reporting about the 5% or less that causes trouble.

[FusedMass]

Pot is proven to drive crime down and money up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...cs&ir=Politics

[Mackeyser]

Seems pretty simple to me.

Legal over 21.

Legal as medical to any age with a prescription. I mean, if you've ever seen a little child go through chemo FINALLY get to eat after inhaling some marijuana smoke (the sight took me back at first and really let me know just how inculcated my marijuana biases were), you'd know just how important medical marijuana is.

So, here's the deal. All of the arguments against marijuana being legal are behavioral arguments for which there are already laws. Such as:

"I'd hate to have a teacher teach my kids if she were high..." or "I'd hate to drive on the roads once pot is legal" or "I'd hate to get surgery from a surgeon who gets high" or "I'd never want to fly with a pilot who uses pot"

Well, yeah. And every state and school district has both ethical codes, standards of conduct and laws regarding entering the classroom "under the influence". Every state has laws regarding driving under the influence. Every medical board as well as every state has VERY strict rules regarding surgeon behaviors and protocols regarding a surgeon's fitness before entering surgery. I've known Obstetricians who admitted they hadn't even had a glass of wine in years because they had a lot of patients and could be called into delivery at any time and thus had to be able to "ready". Same goes for pilots. Pilots have a strict protocol to follow or they cannot fly.

The explicit language obviously differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but suffice it to say that even if the prohibition on possession of personal amounts of pot were legal wouldn't change the existing LAWS on the books regarding the prohibitions on certain behaviors or the mandatory following of certain protocols, rules or regulations.

Long story short: DUI will still be DUI whether pot becomes legal or not. Teachers will still have to be sober in all ways prior to entering the classroom or they will be fired and likely subject to criminal charges. Doctors will still have to be chemically clean before performing a procedure or subject to criminal and civil sanction. Pilots will still have to be chemically clean or they will also be subject to criminal sanction.

Basically, nothing changes.

Well, what changes is that we no longer have a justice system that massively disproportionately incarcerates minorities and poor people for possession of small amounts of marijuana and we stop feeding the criminal industrial complex.

From a Reason Article "In 2009, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there were 1,524,513 prisoners in state and federal prisons. When local jails are included, the total climbs to 2,284,913." Later it goes on to show that 25% of those are non-violent drug offenders. Lessee....whip out the calculator...and that's 571,228 people in jail because they were non-violent drug offenders. Now, obviously not all of them were of the pot variety.

However, the point is that there's a MASSIVE problem when there's a single substance that a) will help kids with cancer, b) will help anyone with anxiety, c) is FAR LESS damaging than other accepted vices like alcohol and tobacco and d) is responsible for hundreds of thousands of Americans being incarcerated for no reason other than possessing small amounts.

When something as simple as decriminalizing Marijuana could attend to so many obvious issues, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

And, for the record, I'm a 44 year old, service-connected Disabled Vet. I've been disabled since '92 with daily migraines and cluster headaches and have Crohn's Disease. I've thought of using medical marijuana as I deal with my pain opiate-free, but even though I lived in CA at the time, I didn't want to put my Federal benefits in jeopardy.

For us few Vets who go the Opiate -free route, and there are some of us, it's a damned hard road. The decriminalization of Marijuana would allow us to have a legitimate source for pain relief that would NOT cause "rebound headaches" like NSAIDs do which is why I can't take Advil or Tylenol (or even Aspirin) more than twice or three times a week.

Anyone who thinks this is just about pothead teenagers who want to get high may want to think about this: In real life, it's almost never as simple as it looks.

Folks against it see the guys from 'Dazed and Confused'. I see the little girl after chemo and prisons full of people.

Jmho. Be well.

[Roose]

Growing Marijuana is far easier than making Alcohol. The reason people do not make Alcohol anymore because people are lazy, especially americans of this generation. Its too tedious to make.

Police officers are always on duty, even when they are not. You do not want police officers to be high, when they are called when theres a crime in their neighborhood. You are a police officer 24/7.

Bullshit. Crime rate will not go down, economy will not benefit at all. Since, people will grow it themselves. And people will always avoid taxes. There is too much propaganda by both sides of the argument to make an informed choice.

All you do is spout bullshit that you can't back up with a shred of evidence. Sorry that you are unable to make up your mind for yourself. Pretty easy to distinguish propaganda and facts.

Then again, I do not know if you know what facts are if you are saying shit like cops are on duty 24/7, and that marijuana is easier to grow than making alcohol. There is a good reason that we are now seeing weed that is so much better than the past, technology advancements. Because growing ditch weed is easy, growing sticky takes a ton of work.

They make alcohol inside of prisons. Must not be that hard. Have yet to hear about anyone growing weed inside a prison.