Gaza rocket fire resumes

[tjanson]

.About as well as it was before Hamas. As for Hamas not running on that concept...

"The Hamas Charter (or Covenant), issued in 1988, outlined the organization's position on many issues at the time, identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[36] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.[71][72]"

Hamas was formed due to Israeli actions against Palestine.

Sigh. If you can read the above quote and come away with "Hamas operates on a 'Liberty or death' concept", I'm probably just wasting my time. Liberty is not utterly obliterating your oppressors and dissolving their nation.

The colonists tarred and feathered tax collectors to show the British a lesson. Epitome of humanitarianism there. And what about John the Painter? Boston Tea Party? Treatment of British prisoners? Use of guerrilla warfare and attacking behind the lines at the beginning stages of the war, before the militia was formed/armed enough to fight more openly on a larger scale? You seem to be subjectively denying any relationship because the existence of said relationship would distress you.

You are unbelievable. Tarring and feathering people is just like murdering them and their families? The Boston Tea Party was a completely bloodless action. Where the hell are you getting your historical facts, Assassin's Creed?

John the Painter was a Scots born thief and rapist, and there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest that he had any sort of sanction - tacit or otherwise - from the Continental Congress. Try again, please. Or better yet, admit that trying to compare Hamas to the American Revolution is utterly absurd.

Yes, because superpowers like China and Russia equal Israel, and its not like there were a few decades of two nuclear superpowers glaring at each other and showing just how fruitful such interventions would be. Its too bad we don't have more relative examples of international intervention like... oh.... Libya, for example. Or Rwanda. I find it hard to believe you don't realize such interventions occurred, and so I must wonder why you are subjectively denying these specific instances. It bespeaks of a lack of understanding about the inner mechanics of how the Security Council works.

I mentioned Rwanda. Rwanda, and even Libya's armed forces were rather pathetic compared to the IDF, which is why I made the Russia and China comparisons. You know what Russia, China and Israel have in common? Nuclear weapons, that's what. So yeah, the UN isn't even remotely about to march in there and impose anything on Israel.

[soulcrusher]

an altrernate view worth thinking about http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/..._all_20121119/

Gaza is a window on our coming dystopia. The growing divide between the world’s elite and its miserable masses of humanity is maintained through spiraling violence. Many impoverished regions of the world, which have fallen off the economic cliff, are beginning to resemble Gaza, where 1.6 million Palestinians live in the planet’s largest internment camp. These sacrifice zones, filled with seas of pitifully poor people trapped in squalid slums or mud-walled villages, are increasingly hemmed in by electronic fences, monitored by surveillance cameras and drones and surrounded by border guards or military units that shoot to kill. These nightmarish dystopias extend from sub-Saharan Africa to Pakistan to China. They are places where targeted assassinations are carried out, where brutal military assaults are pressed against peoples left defenseless, without an army, navy or air force. All attempts at resistance, however ineffective, are met with the indiscriminate slaughter that characterizes modern industrial warfare.

[Haarvald]

They have a missile defence system. Only one missile (from what I know of) has gotten through it. Meanwhile, every missile Israel sends hits its target. Sounds to me that Israel has it pretty good compared to the other side.

One you say.. and you'd be without question wrong, dozens are getting through, miss. As well as many of the Gaza dead were killed by Hamas rockets misfiring.

[Deleted]

I do. But you're forgetting that said land belonged to Egypt and Jordan, who lost it in a war of aggression. So nothing was stolen, and the borders are completely legal.

Then again, I know nothing I say will convince you.

okee so the borders are legal ? so lets see if i puted a border around your house and i won't let u out , is that fair ? if i am the goverment is your country. and if u even try to do 1 thing against the border i either kill your familie or bomb you place? fair right ?

[Isotope]

okee so the borders are legal ? so lets see if i puted a border around your house and i won't let u out , is that fair ? if i am the goverment is your country. and if u even try to do 1 thing against the border i either kill your familie or bomb you place? fair right ?

Your English is awful so I'm going to try to understand the best I can.

Every country has borders. They DO NOT have to let people in. I wonder how many countries that when you're coming into it form another country just let you walk on in without checking your paperwork or even inspecting your things. So the point you're trying to make just blew up in your face.

The USA is building a fence on the border from Mexico right now. Do you see Mexico getting upset and starting to lob rockets over the border?

Israel is forced to do this to protect innocent civilians. If Hamas cared about their people half as much as Israel does, this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.

[Grizzly Willy]

okee so the borders are legal ? so lets see if i puted a border around your house and i won't let u out , is that fair ? if i am the goverment is your country. and if u even try to do 1 thing against the border i either kill your familie or bomb you place? fair right ?

False analogy. Personal residences aren't comparable to nations,

[soulcrusher]

Israel is forced to do this to protect innocent civilians. If Hamas cared about their people half as much as Israel does, this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.

israel is forced to do this as it has stolen other peoples land and put them in a large concentration camp where it routinely brutalises them in the hope they will go away. your comparison with the USA and Mexico is laughable.

[Beavis]

South Africa Apartheid did have the same type of concept, they did call it "Homlands" it was independent, non-state political entities, governed by blacks, but was constant overruled and controlled by the central (white) government.

Israeli citizens of arabic origin are not oppressed and enjoy the rights and privilege as appropriate to a citizen of a democratic state, BUT the problem is all the people who is denied citizenship (no law of return for them) and the government of Israel is using all the trick in the book to force them into a limbo.[COLOR="red"]

The South African homelands were completely different. The white government stripped black South Africans of their citizenship and then established self-governing homelands. The people in the West Bank and Gaza have never been citizens of Israel. Therefore it is not Apartheid. It's occupation. Hence the name Occupied Territories. The calling the Israeli occupation Apartheid is just partisan nonsense.

[Beazy]

Here is the types of people Israel is dealing with. This is sick no matter what the situation.

DO NOT CLICK IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY GRAPHIC PICTURES -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-tomorrow.html

How do you negotiate with people who ENJOY dragging bodies behind a motorcycle. There is something wrong with people like this, and unfortunately they are the ones running the show. Look at the joy on a lot of their faces, sick!

You do realize that during the revolutionary war, we (Americans) would hang English Officers in trees after dragging them there? Have someone invade your home and kill your family. . . . then dragging a body through the streets wont seem so barbaric anymore.

[Isotope]

You do realize that during the revolutionary war, we (Americans) would hang English Officers in trees after dragging them there? Have someone invade your home and kill your family. . . . then dragging a body through the streets wont seem so barbaric anymore.

1700s vs 2000s...times are different

[Kasierith]

Sigh. If you can read the above quote and come away with "Hamas operates on a 'Liberty or death' concept", I'm probably just wasting my time. Liberty is not utterly obliterating your oppressors and dissolving their nation.

Liberty is whatever they twist the people into believing. Unless you want to say that such a concept as liberty is a purely objective notion?

You are unbelievable. Tarring and feathering people is just like murdering them and their families? The Boston Tea Party was a completely bloodless action. Where the hell are you getting your historical facts, Assassin's Creed?

John the Painter was a Scots born thief and rapist, and there's absolutely zero evidence to suggest that he had any sort of sanction - tacit or otherwise - from the Continental Congress. Try again, please. Or better yet, admit that trying to compare Hamas to the American Revolution is utterly absurd.

He did attacks specifically for the benefit of the American Revolution. If you want me to give you examples of Americans crossing the ocean to Britain and personally attacking them on their own turf, well, that is a pretty daft request.

So you think that tarring and feathering is humane. That really is.... saddening. Personally, I'd rather be drowned or shot than find out what it feels like to be covered in boiling tar and die, slowly and painfully, as people watch on mocking me merely because I was doing the job assigned for me by the people overseas. And yes, it's not always fatal, but even when it isn't it is at the least a horrible and traumatic experience inflicting severe physical and psychological pain. As for the Boston Tea Party, get the patriotism out of your head and look at it objectively. You don't have to kill anyone for it to technically be a terrorist attack. Am I saying that the colonists = Hamas? I am not. But your steadfast headshaking at what obvious similarities do exist is actually quite amusing, if saddening.

I mentioned Rwanda. Rwanda, and even Libya's armed forces were rather pathetic compared to the IDF, which is why I made the Russia and China comparisons. You know what Russia, China and Israel have in common? Nuclear weapons, that's what. So yeah, the UN isn't even remotely about to march in there and impose anything on Israel.

And now we're on to goal post moving time. I said that there have been military interventions to which you responded "nuh uh!" and you denied it, and then tried to qualify it when I proved you wrong. Logical fallacies aside, even if Israel does have such nuclear weapons, to say that a military intervention by other countries will go enough to start a nuclear war is beyond preposterous. International intervention in the matter would not be some sort of full scale military assault like you seem to believe, one that would trigger such a nuclear conflict. What would it be exactly? Its hard to tell when the US vetoes even condemning Israel's crimes.

[cFortyfive]

fair right ?

It's called living on planet earth and not in Ponyfuckingville.

You do realize that during the revolutionary war, we (Americans) would hang English Officers in trees after dragging them there? Have someone invade your home and kill your family. . . . then dragging a body through the streets wont seem so barbaric anymore.

You might also be inclined to see why someone else wouldn't give a crap about those people ? Just the same goes for Libya or Syria and even for Egypt.

[Haarvald]

no thats the version of the truth you "victimised" israelis like to portray. the truth is that you had peace until the IDF killed a 13 year old palestinian boy on Nov 8th. every time there has been a deal the israelis have broken it. you lie and cheat and play the victim card. you wall people up in a ghetto, brutalise them and then provoke a reaction because you dont want peace. you want their land and now you want the massive gas and oil reserves recently discovered off the gaza coast. is it coincidence this all started up just weeks before the UN was due to vote on palestinian state hood? ofc it wasnt.

Wait, you call constant rockets into civilian area as 'peace'? You call streams of suicide bombers blowing up civilians 'peace'? I would suggest that if you dont want the walls then give Israel a reason to take them down, prove to them your civility and stop the rockets.

But of course, you want 'peace' yet Hamas PUBLICLY executes folks for allegedly spying for Israel, one of them even being drug thru the streets behind a motorcycle. If Israel did the same things you'd be livid, wouldn't you?

---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 09:38 PM ----------

Apparently Hamas thinks they have a ceasefire deal with Israel, but Israel doesn't think so yet. Hmmm...

I dont think public executions count as a ceasefire... but I could be wrong.

[Algearond]

Is Israel still prevents goods that is needed to rebuild a country from getting in?
Is Israel still controlling the borders?
is Israel still bombing tunnels used by Palestinians even though their is a cease fire?

All of the answers are Yes for the first reason alone you can expect resistance and also even when Palestinian groups weren't.'t bombing Israel you had the Israel arm bombing Palestinians.

It sucks that civilians get involved but the Palestinians are the weaker party, the weaker party will use any mean necessary to achieve their freedom.

The complaints about the actions of Palestinians reminds me about a movie I saw regarding the struggle in Algeria. The movie is praised because it shows the dirty things done by port parties however the only thing I see is the French suppressing the Algerian people and people in Algeria doing everything that is needed to remove the foreign oppressors.

And lets be honest, their isn't a single country that would accept creating a different country within their own country. The true irony is that in certain country -allot of them are pro-israel- politicians accuse muslims of trying to take over the country, this is literately what happened in Palestinian during the period of ww1 and ww2.

Your actually going to side with the fucking animals who want to see Isreal wiped off the map and demonstrated their "civility" by dragging a guy through the streets till he was a bloody pulp. You are either an out and out anti-semite, insane, or both. I support Isreal 100% and stand with them completely.

[Haarvald]

the IDF had no right being on the boat in the first place. maybe stop throwing your weight around and lying through your teeth people might find you more credible.

Truthfully, they had EVERY right on that boat, they were fully within international law to inspect ANY ship in their waters.

[mistuhbull]

no thats the version of the truth you "victimised" israelis like to portray. the truth is that you had peace until the IDF killed a 13 year old palestinian boy on Nov 8th. every time there has been a deal the israelis have broken it. you lie and cheat and play the victim card. you wall people up in a ghetto, brutalise them and then provoke a reaction because you dont want peace. you want their land and now you want the massive gas and oil reserves recently discovered off the gaza coast. is it coincidence this all started up just weeks before the UN was due to vote on palestinian state hood? ofc it wasnt.

Interesting what you think peace looks like
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...srael-1.468709
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Israel,_2012

[Zanardam]

The only solution about this eternal war in this region:

http://ddemotivators.tumblr.com/post...ed-by-razgriez

[Twotonsteak]

From the article "IDF tanks fired at terror targets in the Strip following the attack. Gaza medical sources said that four people were killed and 25 others were injured." must be fantastic tanks who only hit "terror targets"

They're called "human shields." Hamas positioned their forces, including missile launchers, in and around civilian's. Israel warned that it would retaliate if the attacks continued. The attacks continued. At that point any "civilians" still living near the missile launchers and enemy troops became viable targets. Anyone who has a problem with that can thank Hamas.

Hamas is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization. They have repeatedly said that they want the eradication of Israel. They are supported financially and politically by a country, lead by a President, who clams that the holocaust never happened. He has also stated, on multiple occasions, that the first thing he would do with a nuclear bomb is eradicate Israel.

Hamas will receive no pity from me. It's time Hamas, Egypt, and the rest of that region had a reminder of the Six-Day War.

[Zanardam]

They're called "human shields." Hamas positioned their forces, including missile launchers, in and around civilian's. Israel warned that it would retaliate if the attacks continued. The attacks continued. At that point any "civilians" still living near the missile launchers and enemy troops became viable targets. Anyone who has a problem with that can thank Hamas.

wait..do you know that nobodies ((read here, the palestinians)) can leave the Gaza Bank at all without get shoot or kick back inside by the IDF or the Egyptian military ?

Its a big outdoor prison without hopes.

In a way, get bombs and kill are the only way to freedom.

*grimdark,etc.

[N-7]

That you haven't heard gunshots in Syria for years? Yeah, not believing that.

I said that the last time I've heard gunshots was in Syria years ago WHEN I went there for a fucking VISIT.

EDIT: I've already stated in one of my previous posts that Syria gun-control was really bad so I am not really sure what you were aiming at. I've just stated my personal experience about Syria and some other Middle Eastern countries which was basically "in more than 10 years of my life that I've spent in different countries there, the only gun-fight that I witnessed was approximately 6-7 years ago in Syria." Why would that be a lie?