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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    Just so you know Iron Dome doesn't try to intercept all rockets. When a rocket is launched they know the vicinity of where it will land. If it's out in the middle of nowhere they just let it go and report it as a rocket fired into Israel. If a rocket has a chance to land to where it could do damage, then Iron Dome fires 2-3 rockets to try to take it out.

    I can see why the numbers may be misleading, and I really think Israel should announce how many rockets they fired upon.

    Also somebody pointed out in this thread that the US bought them for Israel and gave them all the stuff to make them. Actually Iron Dome was 100% built and designed by a company in Israel. The US did give them some money to build more of them. Also they are in talks to trade the technology and have some of them built right here in the US and shipped to bases over seas.
    I am well aware of these points. But rather avoid stating them, to avoid giving the ones firing rockets the certainty of knowing that whenever a rocket is intercepted, the course they set was good.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 08:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Very easy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...tion_1514_(XV)

    Now would you kindly slink back to your 47 borders and leave them alone?
    No part of that resolution says any lands beyond the ones they have need to be given. No part of it means more lands are to be supplied. And no part of it talks about how the scenario changes when the yearning becomes terrorism.

  2. #782
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    No part of that resolution says any lands beyond the ones they have need to be given. No part of it means more lands are to be supplied. And no part of it talks about how the scenario changes when the yearning becomes terrorism.
    Nobody is asking for extra land to be given to Palestine, just the land they legally own. People have the right to self-determination, self-defence and justice, even if the psychopathic bully next door keeps getting bigger guns and keeps killing innocents.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  3. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Actually you didn't answer the question. I asked, for what reason does land belong to someone?
    Read all I wrote when I answered you. I did provide you with all the "ways" for a people to own land. Either they have historical ties to it, it was given to them by whoever owned the land before them, or they took it by force. In this case, Israel happens to fit into all 3 categories. It only helps reinforce their ownership, I'd say.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Nobody is asking for extra land to be given to Palestine, just the land they legally own. People have the right to self-determination, self-defence and justice, even if the psychopathic bully next door keeps getting bigger guns and keeps killing innocents.
    The land they legally own is legally owned by someone else. They simply want their neighbour's lands, and, as the psychopathic bullies they are, fire rockets and missiles blindly to kill innocent civilians.

    See? 2 can play the twister game.

  4. #784
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    The land they legally own is legally owned by someone else. They simply want their neighbour's lands, and, as the psychopathic bullies they are, fire rockets and missiles blindly to kill innocent civilians.

    See? 2 can play the twister game.
    It's stolen. Stop pretending it's anything but. Look at the land they owned pre 47. All Palestine wants are the lands they owned and were stolen at gunpoint.

    That's what a psychopathic bully does - steal land and blame the victim. Israel is a terrorist state. It kills tens of thousands more innocents than Hamas ever could.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  5. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Nobody is asking for extra land to be given to Palestine, just the land they legally own. People have the right to self-determination, self-defence and justice, even if the psychopathic bully next door keeps getting bigger guns and keeps killing innocents.
    Hear Hear!

  6. #786
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
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    wow.. not listening and we're 1 step away from thread close..

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzzie View Post
    wow.. not listening and we're 1 step away from thread close..
    I think you're bluffing, you don't have the guts...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Lets say you have a two 3 inch lines. One is all red and the other is 48% red and 52% blue. Does that mean there's a 50-50 chance they're both red or is the second line matching the all red line by 48%?
    ^^^ Wells using an analogy

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzzie View Post
    wow.. not listening and we're 1 step away from thread close..
    I think it should close. It's not going anywhere.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    It's stolen. Stop pretending it's anything but. Look at the land they owned pre 47. All Palestine wants are the lands they owned and were stolen at gunpoint.

    That's what a psychopathic bully does - steal land and blame the victim. Israel is a terrorist state. It kills tens of thousands more innocents than Hamas ever could.
    And we're back to throwing all sense outta the window and back to namecalling and propaganda. Cheers, you just reminded me why Hamas can only be stopped with guns.

    A good time to close this as any, if after 40 pages all you can come up with is repeated and over-chewed lines.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    I am well aware of these points. But rather avoid stating them, to avoid giving the ones firing rockets the certainty of knowing that whenever a rocket is intercepted, the course they set was good.
    Or do you state that we fired upon 'X' amount of rockets and took out 'Y' amount. To make the Hamas see that they aren't doing anything for their work and could force them to stop that way. Making it seem like they are actually hitting targets in Israel gives them the confidence that they are actually doing something.

    One more thing I think people should know or understand. These rockets have zero guidance on them. So when Hamas launches them they have no idea where they are going to end up. So they are just blindingly firing rockets into Israel hopping to hit anything. No matter what your stance on the issue is, you cannot condone those types of actions.

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    And we're back to throwing all sense outta the window and back to namecalling and propaganda. Cheers, you just reminded me why Hamas can only be stopped with guns.

    A good time to close this as any, if after 40 pages all you can come up with is repeated and over-chewed lines.
    The statistics bear out. You're the one who denies legality, UN resolutions, official maps, and official reports to parrot the Israeli party line.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    I didn't realize RoI was launching hundreds of rockets a year into England.
    your right, they werent throwing rockets over the wall that hit no one, they were planting car bombs next to parliament buildings and killing many

  13. #793
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    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    your right, they werent throwing rockets over the wall that hit no one, they were planting car bombs next to parliament buildings and killing many
    Newsflash, Hamas and other Islamic terrorist groups have been doing that in Israel for years. The only reason it hasn't happened as much in the past decade, is simply because of the blockades and the stricter passage of Palestinians into Israel. Which, seeing the results, shows how effective it is.
    I rather have blind rockets daily, than a suicide bomber in a school once a month.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.
    You're right to be confused. But what you must know, on this topic, is that Hamas are firing rockets blindly into Israel, which forced the Israeli army to waltz in and kick some ass to stop them. For every action, there is a reaction. And the first reaction of the Pro-Palestinians is stating how right they are by blindly firing rockets at civilians, and how wrong Israel is for defending itself. We're all assholes. But even assholes can be right and wrong.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.
    What propaganda have I actually spouted though?

    And yes, Israel and Hamas both are arseholes. They both kill innocents. Difference is Hamas is fighting for self-determination and to get their land back, while Israel stole it and keep the Palestinians down.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The statistics bear out. You're the one who denies legality, UN resolutions, official maps, and official reports to parrot the Israeli party line.
    Statistics? Source? Proof? Anything else to say besides your usual twistytwist?
    Every time I asked you for sources, you provided ambiguous answers. Every time I provided facts, sources and proof, you deflected or out-right ignored them.

    You are simply wrong and too blind to see it. Just because you want something to be true, it doesn't make it so.
    I had a toy when I was a child, it was lost because I accidentally set it on fire. I don't go around crying daily that I want my toy back. That is how you sound when you repeat on every 4th post "47' borders blah blah weeeeeeeeh"

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    What propaganda have I actually spouted though?

    And yes, Israel and Hamas both are arseholes. They both kill innocents. Difference is Hamas is fighting for self-determination and to get their land back, while Israel stole it and keep the Palestinians down.
    That propaganda, maybe? Lol.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-11-18 at 10:52 PM.

  17. #797
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    Did I mention you specifically? I just see claims of Israeli and Palestinian propaganda from the two sides and I don't know who to believe. And it's not just claims, people are disputing historical events.

  18. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromance22 View Post
    Palestine was never a country, Palestinians should go to there brothers and sisters in Jordan/Egypt/Syria, there all arabs, all from the same region. Israel is a country formed in what used to be the British Mandate of Palestine, the Arabs didnt like that so they attacked and started a war. Israel won said war, expanded there borders (extremely modest expansion) so that they could make sure they could defend their sovereignty and citizens from harm, being surrounded by a race of people that dont believe they have the right to exist. In the end the one with the biggest stick has control. Israel not only has the biggest stick but is also a first world country, far more advanced than any other in the mid east.
    Only when the palestinain people tell their governments to halt aggression against Israel (rockets every day) and speak out against suicide bombings and wretched things like that will Israel even think about stopping their expansion into the West Bank. The palestinians have been refugees for 60 years and have done nothing with the territory they "control". Israel has professionals in all fields of life, producing doctors, lawyers, businessmen, innovation and the like, Palestinians want to do to Israel what they did to Gaza, turn the whole god dam place into a dependent ghetto that requires handouts to even be able to go about day to day life.

    One last thing. Arabs can be citizens in Israel, Jews cannot in any middle eastern country aside from ISrael. Now i know there is resentment in Israel between the Jewish and Arab peoples, but that is similar to how a Frenchman or Brit would feel about a German after WW1/2, in middle eastern countries if your a Jew you should be killed on the grounds that you are exactly that, a Jew. There is a black and white difference between the two peoples, with very little grey areas.
    what about all the jews in Iran? Iran has the second biggest population of jews outside israel....

  19. #799
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Statistics? Source? Proof? Anything else to say besides your usual twistytwist?
    Check back and stop being lazy. You've seen maps (denied them with hilarious nonsense; couldn't provide "real maps" because they don't exist,) UN resolutions (again denied outright) and logic (well, denied that but that's obvious)

    Every time I asked you for sources, you provided ambiguous answers. Every time I provided facts, sources and proof, you deflected or out-right ignored them.
    They're only ambiguous to someone insanely irrational.

    You are simply wrong and too blind to see it. Just because you want something to be true, it doesn't make it so.
    Oh pooh pooh. Stop ignoring the facts and the statistics and the evidence and come up with an argument not based on lies. Everything seems to be an ad hominem with you; "you're just wrong!" wins no arguments while the Palestinians have had their land stolen and forced off at gunpoint. It's ridiculous.

    I had a toy when I was a child, it was lost because I accidentally set it on fire. I don't go around crying daily that I want my toy back.
    So millions of innocent people having their land stolen is equivalent to a toy. A. toy. Thousands have been killed in Israeli attacks and tens of thousands starved to death. It's a toy to you. Palestinians are people and deserve a hell of a lot more respect than you show, as all humans do.

    That propaganda, maybe? Lol.
    When your view of the world is so distorted by fallacy and lies, the truth always appears skewed. It's not propaganda; Israel took it at gunpoint, oppress the Palestinians and build illegal settlements. Indisputable facts.

    Did I mention you specifically? I just see claims of Israeli and Palestinian propaganda from the two sides and I don't know who to believe. And it's not just claims, people are disputing historical events.
    I just asked, it wasn't a criticism. There are blatantly ignorant pro-Israelis and blatantly ignorant pro-Palestinians. That doesn't mean the middle is right.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement - more blatant disregard for laws by Israel.
    Last edited by Zhangfei; 2012-11-18 at 07:31 AM.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    what about all the jews in Iran? Iran has the second biggest population of jews outside israel....
    Lol, where did you get that from?
    There are about 10.000 Jews left in Iran.
    For comparison, there are close to 6 million Jews in the US, and close to 200 thousand in Argentina, as examples.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    When your view of the world is so distorted by fallacy and lies, the truth always appears skewed. It's not propaganda; Israel took it at gunpoint, oppress the Palestinians and build illegal settlements. Indisputable facts.
    I am just quoting this, for the incredible contrast and your inability to apply the first line to yourself. All you do is spew lies. And shout "LIAR" whenever you're presented with the truth. It gets quite tiresome.

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