New monk tank... Tank abuse constantly. Is this normal?

[Deleted]

Also, when I leveled my elemental shaman, I was never behind a tank on dps, yet when I'm on my tank I'm always first. Has anyone else encountered this ?

Not really, because if a tank is doing his job he can't be beaten on dps (AoE) due to vengeance which is ridiculous on low level. Also most classes don't have the tools yet to do proper AoE damage on lower levels. Ele is kinda lucky with chain lightning at level 28. Then there's also the problem that people often aren't really trying regardless of how well they know their class.

Anyway I've leveled my brewmaster to L66 now (started tanking at 30) and I've had mixed results as well, but never near as obnoxious people as some people here described. Most important is to gauche how much you and the healer can handle. That's the pace you are gonna take. Don't be a slowpoke though, just try to keep a run as fluent as possible. This is what I like about being a tank: I can determine a lot about how well it goes. The main rule is to ignore people who say you need to go faster. It is one thing if the dps does that (they seriously have no vote in that). I've also had 2-3 healers say that constantly while I often saw my health dip too low for comfort, meaning that pulling more will likely wipe the group. Then you have the special dungeons like Setthek Halls were you need to be more precise with chain pulling because of all the stuns, chain fearing and MCs Had 2 wipes there because people wanted to go faster.

[fizzbob]

I have never seen this kind of behavior while leveling my monk. I have queued all of my dungeons for leveling solo and as the tank (also all but 3 of my runs for gearing up at 90). I've been leveling a druid tank with 0 heirlooms to see how that worked out. No harassment or complaints so far.

Perhaps the problem is a difference in expectations between yourself and the general population? Perhaps you aren't as skilled of a player or as good of a group member as you perceive yourself to be?

Nah, must be the LFD queue. Terrible people in there, every last one of them.

usually it's the bads that don't notice the abuse. they haven't discovered their chat window yet.

[Dedweight]

People are jerks. Will it get better?

Yes people are jerks and yes it will get better(kinda). Once you get max level you'll be more willing to skip those "unnecessary" packs so they won't be complaining about that, they'll now start "accidentally" pulling those extra groups, complaining about your dps(or in many cases wondering why the tank is at the top), or complaining about your threat or them dieing(usually because of the extra groups they pulled to start with).

bad tanks pull 3, kill 2, then pull 3 more while that last one tags along, slowly

bad tanks move/dance with teh mobs because they lack the experience to know how to position a pack where they want it

bad tanks have downtime. there is no reason to stop hitting stuff. you should go fast.

What? I've done half of the things that you claim are signs of a bad tank and have yet to get a complaint with my tanking in the past 6 years that I've filled the role. If the group is capable of keeping up I will chain pull, if all but one or two mobs in the last group is dead I'll be headed to the next one and downtime hardly means you have a bad tank, in my experience most of the downtime is caused by the healer needing mana and the healer needing mana could be caused by any number of things(freshly geared tank/healer, bad healer/tank, or dps pulling extra mobs to name a few).

[blackblade]

So, I'm a level 67 Brewmaster. Back in BC I played a warrior tank, but never tanked raids, only heroics. People normally followed directions pretty well, were cautious, and for the most part, were polite.

I've been tanking since level 15, and it's been...a nightmare. There have been good runs, but there have also been some really, really bad runs. I used to play a healer - I understand how much crap healers take. This has been infinitely worse. What I want to know is...should I continue to expect this kind of treatment through to 90?

• People complaining that I'm pulling extra mobs/bosses when we "don't need to". I'm there for XP, using my Monk XP buff, and want to get the most out of it. It takes an extra minute to kill this stuff and it's usually in our path. I've literally had people harass me so badly that I've left groups, only to have them follow me onto my server and tell me I should kill myself.
  
• People complaining that I'm not pulling enough at once. I roll with a healer when I queue, so I know how much I/he can handle based on the dungeon and the mobs' abilities...and I pull A LOT at once. Complaining is one thing, but most take it farther and begin chain pulling themselves, usually through body pulls, then lose it when I don't save them from a 2 shot.
  
• People being general rude pricks, then chain pulling mobs so we can't get out of combat long enough for a vote kick.
  
• People complaining that I'm not going fast enough while barely cracking 1000dps. Most stand around trying to pull more mobs while never DPSing what I'm already tanking.
  
• Hunters who leave taunt on on their pets, then ignore me when I politely ask them to turn it off, multiple times. Pets taunt on bosses with conal abilities, boss spins around, group takes damage. "lrn 2 tank"

All of the above is usually accompanied by name calling and tons of people who just want to waste my time.

They all seem to feel like telling me how to do my job is 100% fine, but if I mention the fact that I'm doing 75% of the damage then they freak out.

Typical bad run:

I enter the dungeon, buff, and pull my first group. Immediately people are already on me about making sure we "do this fast". At that point I'd been dealing with morons run after run, so my healer comments that it would be easier to pull more if they did more DPS... IMMEDIATE. INSANITY. The DPS monk in the group decides to "show us what bad DPS really is" and proceeds, for the rest of the run, to not participate AT ALL (as in zero DPS), while following the healer spamming /dance and /joke. Every time I try to kick her she pulls something before we can drop the vote kick "in combat" debuff then runs backwards, forcing me to pick it up or wipe us. We finally get to the end and are at the boss. Once again, she pulls it, then takes off heading for the entrance. The entire group bitches me out for being a "double douchebag" because I didn't pick up the boss. I was busy cleaning up pop from my keyboard, watching the screen. Once the warlock is safely kiting the boss, the monk runs back and begins dancing next to me. Once I'm able to get back and ensure my keyboard isn't screwed, I finally convince them that she's been absolutely horrible and we kick her. Immediately following they say, "NOW FOR THE HEALER" and kick my healer. igiveup.

And that's typical. I run into people who abuse the pull/vote kick in combat debuff over and over, knowing that we can't get rid of them. Yep, I have put in a ticket before for this, and I was told to report them through the right click > report feature in game...which makes no sense, because they weren't swearing or spamming. They're just being dicks.

So TL;DR I love monk tanking. Very fun. People are jerks. Will it get better? It wasn't like this when I used to tank.

Pre home-stretch, don't even bother running LFD if you don't have thick skin. once you're past all the people who do nothing but level alts all day every day in the 85-90 run things calm down quite a bit.

I hear nothing but horror stories from pre-85 LFD groups myself.

[Deleted]

yeh dude the community died years ago now days ppl are just being asses

[Affectionate]

Low level / "leveling" dungeons are always full of idiots galore, to every one of your main concerns: People will be idiots and assholes, just ignore them, if its really bad, after the first boss dies leave group and requeue (assuming thats long enough to get beyond the 15min timer, killing the boss will keep you from getting the deserter debuff I believe)

Also when I said "just ignore them" I mean literally put them on ignore, this will prevent you from seeing them in LFD or LFR ever again.

[Herkaleez]

I liked low level dungeons. Im the opposite with pulling only what was needed and just ignoring the people telling me to pull extra groups. I also had the People pulling on their own. I would let them die the next time they pulled if I asked them not to and would send a tell to the healer to not heal them if they did. Getting thru those one or 2 bad apples every group and it was much better, generally not queueing for the next person cause dungeons went down fast and as monk you do so much damage its like a dps so 4 man is perfectly good. If the whole group was a bunch of jackasses id wait a few min then do stupid stuff to really piss them off to get kicked (if it was a guild group or something) so I didnt get the deseter debuff and then insta queue as soon as the CD was gone. I leveled pretty early on tho so I didnt have a bunch of d-bags thinking they knew everything. Only a couple

[Elggur]

A good way to get rid of it, since you run with a roomy healer, just set up a macro, that you launch at the entrance of a dungeon, something along the lines of : Hi i''ll be your tank for this dungeon and X will be the healer. I set the pace, if you pull and die, don't expect to get a rez, walk in and joins us back. If I screw up, you'll get a rez , thanks and have a nice ride

[Aleksej89]

When you join a pug lfg, make sure to write your intentions and tanking/pulling style.

Make a macro so u can just instantly post it when u join a lfg.

[Obamatheone]

I pulled as much as possible. I knew it was too much only after we wiped. If stuns didn't rape us so hardcore, then I probably would have rarely died.

[Senka]

The Internet is a horrible, shitty place. This is why you'll meet so many twitchy or hard-ass people online, though they won't necessarily be mean or awful people.
You need to grow a thick skin (or just a shell in my case) to enjoy being on the Internet. If you're unlucky, make that a very thick skin. It sucks, but that's reality. I'm sorry this had to happen to you instead of someone that could shrug it off, not that there's anyone wrong with you. Of course, this shouldn't happen at all in the first place.

[Needonboots]

DPS being pricks is nothing new. As someone who has been tanking on and off since late Vanilla (mostly on), I've mostly learned to deal with it. Depending how you feel, or what they're like, normally falls into 1 of 3 things:

1) I'll do it my way. If they do shit DPS I might try and kick them, but as long as it's not causing us to not finish the dungeon, just roll with it and stay mostly quiet.

2) Tell them if they don't like it, I'll go find another party, and good luck with their queues as a DPS.

3) Just give them shit back. If you can entertain yourself by taking the piss out of them back, it might alleviate your pain. It can be fine to just give it back, and I've actually got a few people back on board with whatever I'm doing because if you give it back in a moderately amusing way, and can find humour in shit they're doing, you can reach a compromise.


Generally the best thing you can do is just to be thick skinned and get on with things. Tanks get shit even when they're doing stuff well, you know you're doing well when people just stay quiet and get on with it, and you know you're freaking fantastic if you ever get a compliment from anyone who isn't a healer

[Somebodyelse]

And that's typical. I run into people who abuse the pull/vote kick in combat debuff over and over, knowing that we can't get rid of them. Yep, I have put in a ticket before for this, and I was told to report them through the right click > report feature in game...which makes no sense, because they weren't swearing or spamming. They're just being dicks.

So TL;DR I love monk tanking. Very fun. People are jerks. Will it get better? It wasn't like this when I used to tank.

There's more options now ...try it next time

[SnorlaxJeng]

Leveling as tank, No DPS can really out-DPS you if you AoE tank. Personally I'd prefer 4 DPS 1 Heal, sustaining oneself and chain pulling. (Friend is Elemental shaman queued as heals stays as Elemental and DPS only to pop heals when shit happens). If it is a group with a dedicated healer its pretty much mass pull and the find a LoS Pit Stop Corner (So range mobs will clutter with melee), Stun them and let the AoE fest begin.

There is no reason to go slowly as the game doesn't really start until level cap. Personally if I got in a group which aren't of like minded people they wouldn't bother to ask for more runs. People who share the same perspective, Healers/DPS will automatically approach you to requeue and you could go on for 15-20 runs of sub 15 minutes Ramparts/ Upper City BRD / ST to easily breeze through whole of 50-70s.

Only when it comes to WoTLK where things get tricky as UK itself the mobs hit like a truck and doing it at 69 is rather troubling. WoTLK I would suggest doing the dungeons for quest only.

As a tank you will need to learn how to abuse yourself and not depend on healers to cover your self abuse. With that practice it will transition your flexibility and survival during raid encounters which is invaluable? That DPS aggro/pulling? Just take it damnit, even if it is on purpose. It's more fun when you manage to prevent a wipe/troll than giving up to the troll, trains your reaction time when the time comes for you to step into raids.

Verbal abuse well that is another whole thing altogether, you have your right to put someone on ignore list your choice, but I find it degrading to even spend my time to open the ignore panel to put him within the list, just finish the run drop and go for the next group.

[Deleted]

Also, when I leveled my elemental shaman, I was never behind a tank on dps, yet when I'm on my tank I'm always first. Has anyone else encountered this ?

There's a couple of specs in-game that can keep up with tank AoE dps in low level dungeons (assuming both heirloomed). Elemental shaman is definitly one of the top in those, I'd say demo lock and hunters in general too. Other classes rely on channeled spells or ramp-up time too much most of the time.

Anyway what is the problem? They're acting like idiots towards you? Ok cool. You even got a healer friend with you? Wow. Idiots only understand 1 thing: being an idiot back. Put them on ignore. Don't requeue with them. Tell your healer to not heal them at all (extra: tank some mobs on top of them for nice cleave). Let them tank whatever they pull and die. When they run off in a distance, turn 90° and go into a different direction if it's a non-linear dungeon. Go have a coffee break with your friend if they're all acting like asses, just make sure 1 boss is dead (they can only kick one of you anyway). The sky is the limit.
Just remember that the 3 dps NEED you 2 to clear dungeon (ok, so you can probably pull it off with just 3 dps, I know, but I'm talking in reasonable amount of time here without drinking/eating after every pack); they are usually the ones waiting for queue to pop on normal hours. You on the other hand need nobody. Tank dps is through the roof, you can easily 2man them all. If they're idiots, don't waste your time trying to reason with them. Just do what you want to enjoy the dungeon.

[Cuppy]

It'll be the same always. Your best bet is to get 3 guildies/friends with you and simply just kick everyone who annoys you even slightest.
Also, what i've noticed is that the longer you do it, the harder your shell gets. You'll reach new level of annoyance after couple of months, and shit the hell up if someone even /sighs at wrong point! No one will get down with you after these levels! :>
Also, disable party chat. It's plain awesome when all you see is combat log, and keep writing "/p Didn't read lol".

[Pacabra]

Unfortunately I'm in a guild with friends, all of which don't have lower alts for me to level with. It's myself and my boyfriend (healer) running. I try to pick up DPS around the same level on my server whenever I see them. However, I think I will switch to questing once I hit Northrend to take a break from pugging.

To whoever was sarcastically saying "Oh, another complaining thread," I'm sorry. I don't read these forums often. At 90 when I run heroic groups on my mage I've NEVER seen anything like what I'm seeing while leveling my monk. I wasn't sure if it was because I've gotten lucky, or if this kind of behaviour mostly happens at lower levels.

your boyfriend is the healer ?

[MaximusRex]

People complaining that I'm pulling extra mobs/bosses when we "don't need to". I'm there for XP, using my Monk XP buff, and want to get the most out of it. It takes an extra minute to kill this stuff and it's usually in our path. I've literally had people harass me so badly that I've left groups, only to have them follow me onto my server and tell me I should kill myself.

I hope when this happens you report them, the more people like this banned, the better.

Don't take crap from people, tell them this is the way you are doing it and if you don't like it they are free to leave.

[zox2]

Pulling extra trash is not good xp/hour. Finishing a dungeon is. Don't pull extra trash for xp.
Other than that, try to ignore the crap, and do your stuff as fast and efficiently as possible, and stay polite. I almost never get any bad stuff as a tank running dungeons.

[Lalicat]

So...some takeaways from this thread. Thanks everyone.

- Develop a thicker skin and don't be so apologetic/take anything personally. I'm Canadian - maybe this is working to my disadvantage. ;P

- Take control of the group, and if someone is being a jerk then let them die. This unfortunately doesn't work often enough because people are like sheep. If someone dies and complains then you typically get kicked for being a bad tank. But oh well, I get instant queues, they don't. Another thought...I feel bad doing this, and I shouldn't.

- Use the report feature and use it well. I run into people seriously abusing the in-combat timer for kicks again and again. Not sure what action Blizzard takes against these kind of people.

- Try to use humour to deal with frustrating people. This has worked a lot for me, actually.

- As long as I'm open to criticism and continue to learn my class then things should get better at 90.

- Biggest take-away: Stop giving so much of a shit.


All that said, I finally got into Wrath dungeons last night and it improved dramatically. Being as Wrath dungeons are laid out in a different manner, and there isn't much choice as to what you can/can't pull, there hasn't been much for people to complain about. Plus, we can all commiserate about getting the same "random" dungeon over and over. Haha.